Opinions needed on engine controls (dual station)

[Megabyte]

Folks,

I am in the process of planning to add a rear steering station to my Parker 2520 MVSC this winter. After looking at the new Parkers at the Annapolis Boat Show, it appears that the factory prefers to rig their dual station boats with the twin lever Morse Twin S control.

I prefer going with a single lever, if possible and like the MT3 as it seems to be a more 'substantial' single control.

http://www.seamar.com/mengine.html

My question... What is so great about the twin lever control? Wouldn't the Morse S or MT3 single lever control be a neater application? After using the single lever Yamaha control for a year, I just don't see the advantage of twin levers. What am I missing? I've looked at many of the commercial watermans boats here on the Bay, and it seems that they prefer single stick controls, which causes me to ask this question...

Finally, how is the trim and tilt incorporated into these controls?

I really want to get this part of my project right, so please excuse these questions. I've only ever used OEM single station controls in the past, so twin stick controls (and why they might be better or worse) is alien to me.

[Reel-Rascals]

Megabyte - 10/21/2004 2:02 PM
... in the process of planning to add a rear steering station to my Parker 2520 MVSC this winter.

Great minds think alike as I'm adding at least a 2nd steering station onto the rear of my cabin bulkhead, which I know you don't have . FWIW I just picked up a new Seastar helm for < $250 on eBay. You'll need that too, plus an extra hose/station kit ($100), and sterring wheel.

What is so great about the twin lever control?
Great question ... as I have no idea myself! It can't be price, as you can buy Twin-S controls for < $200, the Twin-SR (the one to buy in a twin version) for $230, and the MT-3 for $240 each (https://www.surplusunlimited.com ). Dealers mark these 2nd station installs up enough ($3500 on the Parker last time I checked) and you're only talking about roughly $1200+ in parts ... less the console it goes on. You must be thinking of doing a gunnel installation huh?

FWIW www.surplusunlimited.com sells Morse Twin-S control knockoffs for $89 each. They were a 1-for-1 copy of the Morse. Though I can't say how well the finish would hold up, all Morse accessories did fit on them and they seemed really well made, at least as robust in construction as the Morse unit, if not better.


Whatever control you buy, you need to buy the options, such as the:
* Neutral safety switch to prevent starting in gear, $45
* Throttle Hold Kit, prevents throttle lever from backing off, $45
* Gear/clutch detent kit, $20
(All above installed on main operating station for dual-station use)
* Dual station hanger kit, $20
Plus new OB control cables/adaptors, of which I'd recommend the Teleflex Extreme if they make adaptors for your Yummie OB, $100 for all. Again, the surplus URL above has some of the best prices I found on the net, but best source for Morse parts/kits is www.go2marine.com out of Washington.

How is the trim and tilt incorporated into these controls?
Simple ... because it isn't. You need to add some sort of rocker switch for the OB trim. Places like TH Marine make such switches to mount either on the wheel spokes (as shown below) or one that has a lever, like an auto turn-signal thingy in your car, that mounts around your hydraulic helm unit, about $50 or less.


FWIW for now I'm just adding the steering station ... to at least keep me in the cockpit when cruising down river at headway speed and when trolling for tuna. You might want to consider your use and think about just adding the steering option for now. I'm sure you can bring that Parker into the dock OK when steering from the cabin ... given your open-back design !

[Megabyte]

Wow... Good info (as always RR)!

You are correct that I don't need the rear station for docking, as the open PH affords me plenty of vision for those maneuvers.



The reason that I want to add the rear station is because we do a lot of spring and fall trolling for rock, as well as late summer trolling for spanish mac. When on these trips, my buddies are out back fishing, and I'm stuck in the cabin driving. Not fun. I want to fish too.

I also do a lot of "run and gun" LTJ fishing (especially this time of year). Again, due to wind, weather, and currents, I have to keep going forward to run the boat and avoid the rocks and obstructions as everyone else fishes. I want to be able to do that from the cockpit with a rod in my hand.

Also... during the summer, we do a lot of perch fishing in the creeks, and you need to be attentive to the conditions and close to the controls, or you'll get yourself grounded in a hurry. As it get cooler, those same creeks will be hotspots for chain pickerel. Those toothy critters are fun on ultralight gear!

My plan is to put the steering station box in the exact center of the cockpit, which would have me standing in the rear 1/3 of the cockpit.



Here is a photo of a factory rear station on a 2320. Notice how far forward it is placed?



Because I can get to my main helm so easilly, I'd rather take advantage of moving my rear station further aft to take advantage of better placement and positioning for creek crawling, as well as the run-and-gun LTJ fishing.

Now if I can just make sense of these controls...
Right now, I'm partial to the MT3's.

[Reel-Rascals]

Megabyte - 10/21/2004 3:14 PM
My plan is to put the steering station box in the exact center of the cockpit

Which means you 'll need careful planning, and a lot of work, as the cables and hydraulic hoses will need to get under the deck to that station. The Parker deck has the stringers right up to the bottom of the floor. Access is your problem, pretty much ruling out any access from the gunnel.

You only other choice is to have cables run from helm station, down right gunnel to the rear, cross to mid-boat, then back up to station in cockpit (above gas tank), then back to engine. That's at least a 35' cable run from helm, down, and backup. Not undoable mind you ... but better YOU than me !

If I were in your situation, I'd consider adding the wheel and control onto the rear bulkhead at the end of the cockpit.

Kevin: I hear you loud and clear on having controls @ the 2nd station. I'm on a budget this year, so will do it piecemeal.

[Megabyte]

My cables and hydraulic hoses (as well as all of the wiring) run under the stbd side gunnel - right behind the combing pads that you see there in the cockpit photo. Easy to get to.

[Afishinado]

Considering your reasoning for the 2nd station, wouldn't a autopilot with a wireless remote like my trolling motor has work just as well for a lot less money?

[captkern]

With duel stations you cannot have single lever controls. Unless you rig a very complicated Sea Saw Type device to unhook one as the other works. Or you could go with electric and switch to whatever station you are using. Single lever controls are great, but have detents in neutral...a second station cannot push the first and vice versa. For cockpit controls..electric would be better..since you can switch off the ones in the cockpit, so no one accidently leans on it while underway. Imagine the damage switching gears at 4500 rpms.

Just my 02 cents

Captain Michael Kern
100 Ton Master

[SIM]

Kevin,

I would have to agree with the last poster. The single control Morse's I think have a nuetral detent. If so and since the controls at two stations move each other, you will not be able to push the lever on the other station. To much resistance. Also if you wanted a high idle in nuetral the single controls handle has to be moved out in order to do this. You will not be able to do this on the second station.

Keep the cable runs as straight as possible and the bends as big and gradual as possible.

We used to deal with a boat line that had aft station like you want to add and the biggest complaint I had was the shifting part of the control. Very stiff with two stations, but these were with Volvo Dp's with cone clutches which are hard to shift to begin with. The Yamaha's shift a lot easier.

SIM

[Saltdog]

Kevin --

The MT-3 does not come in a dual station version, just the Twin S. I am frequently at the helm of a Parker 2520 with the factory dual station, which has the Twin S. In fact, it has brand new controls because the old ones corroded badly and were replaced by Morse for free. In a word, they suck compared to the standard single lever Yamaha binnacle mount that you have now. Short of very expensive electronic controls, there is no way to get single lever/dual station controls. The dual lever set up is awkward with a single outboard and the controls themseves just take too much effort to operate -- and that's after endless tinkering to get them to work better. There is just way too much mechanical friction built into the system by its design.

I think you may not be happy with the results after spending a lot of time and money on the project. An autopilot with remote does get you tons of flexibility. On my own boat, I routinely fish by myself using the autopilot and it is preferable to the clutter and poor functioning of the Parker with the dual station.

Can't you train one of your fishing companions to handle the boat at trolling speeds?

PS are those pictures at Whitehall Marina?

[Reel-Rascals]

The MT-3 does not come in a dual station version, just the Twin S.

Correction ... the Twin-SR can also be used for multiple station applications and has 2 other features making it the better choice over the Twin-S control IMHO for dual-station use IMHO.

#1: It has a stainless steel cover ... avoids eventual pitting of the chrome housing as you see on Twin-S units.

#2: That cover is removable so you can adjust the cables from the top, without removing the control from its mount. IMHO that's a big plus.

FWIW, a Parker owner up here who has dual stations uses the Teleflex ultimate extremes cables and says that, yes, while it was a bitch to setup, they function OK without any extra effort (shifting, throttle, etc.) and don't require any "frequent" tweaking once broken in. Talked with him on Saturday, he wishes he went with the Twin-SR model just to expedite the install (cable adjustment).

[reel hungry]

I used the twin-s on a tower boat I had years ago,with morse supreme cables very easily installed by myself,once your used to the double levers its actulaly easier to use around the docks just in and out of gear.JMO

[Megabyte]

Thanks for all of the responses guys!

It seems that the twin stick controls are the way to go, so now it's time to narrow it down.
I think ReelRascals is right about the Morse SR controls with the stainless cover being a better option, especially for the cockpit station. I intend to specify the high-end cables for my project as well...

I'm trying to decide now if the Morse CH5600 SLT control would be a better choice since it is advertised as having the stainless cover and levers as well as the 'SLT' feature which is supposed to prevent 'throttle creep'.

Anyone have any experience with the SLT? Is it any better than the Twin SR? The Teleflex Marine web site doesn't give much information on the differences between the two models.

[joediverfl]

I see autopilot with remote being suggested as an alternative to a second station. Forgive this stupid question, but does that mean that you can only control the steering, but need to go to the main station to change throttle or shift gears?

[Reel-Rascals]

joediverfl - 11/10/2004 1:36 PM
Forgive this stupid question, but does that mean that you can only control the steering, but need to go to the main station to change throttle or shift gears?

Yup. And never is there a stupid question if one or others can learn from it !