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Old 10-10-2010, 07:32 AM
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Default Hydraulic Steering Repair?

Ok, I broke off these brass 90 deg. fittings where the lines go into the hydraulic cylinder. Its hard to tell if the cylinder itself is damaged - anyway is this repairable ?- I am thinking with an easy-out ( I vaquely remember using such a thing years ago) or some such extraction tool I can replace the fittings or should replace the cylinder - its 12 years old. Since I may have bent the rod or damaged the area where the fittings go in......

The way it happened is that after the addition of the lift bracket I had to be careful to only go full tilt up only with the motor turned full left or right (due to these futtings hitting the transim) and I forgot....

Also should I replace all the lines as the area exposed to the light in the engine well seem very brittle - or do you just cut into and replace that section?

Thanks

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Old 10-10-2010, 11:13 PM
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:07 AM
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Get an E Z Out and take it slow . It should not be frozen as I see teflon tape or some sealer around the threads. Replace the 90* fitting and you should be set. The hoses are hard from the factory so no problem there. Use a good pipe sealer and you are ready, JUST BE CAREFUL and take your time. If not $ $ $ .
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Old 10-11-2010, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capthorace View Post
Get an E Z Out and take it slow . It should not be frozen as I see teflon tape or some sealer around the threads. Replace the 90* fitting and you should be set. The hoses are hard from the factory so no problem there. Use a good pipe sealer and you are ready, JUST BE CAREFUL and take your time. If not $ $ $ .
I agree you should be able to get this right out, I dont recall if the 90 is a brass fitting or alum? You might get some small metal shavings in the cylinder when using the easyout I think you could flush these out with the oil by turning the wheel before you put the new 90 back in. Good luck.
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Sound Grunt View Post
Ok, I broke off these brass 90 deg. fittings where the lines go into the hydraulic cylinder. Its hard to tell if the cylinder itself is damaged - anyway is this repairable ?- I am thinking with an easy-out ( I vaquely remember using such a thing years ago) or some such extraction tool I can replace the fittings or should replace the cylinder - its 12 years old. Since I may have bent the rod or damaged the area where the fittings go in......

The way it happened is that after the addition of the lift bracket I had to be careful to only go full tilt up only with the motor turned full left or right (due to these futtings hitting the transim) and I forgot....

Also should I replace all the lines as the area exposed to the light in the engine well seem very brittle - or do you just cut into and replace that section?

Thanks

Attachment 136050

I could be wrong but those don't look like the right kind of lines to me. Sea Star specifically says

"Do not use extruded nylon tubing for outboard motor applications"
http://ww2.seastarsteering.com/PDFs/296221-E.pdf
Page 12 of the PDF
Outboard Hose Kits:
http://ww2.seastarsteering.com/OUTBOARD/oboard.htm
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:08 PM
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The whole cylinder is pretty simple to disassemble. I would pull it right apart, remove broken pieces, check the threads, and if OK just replace the lines/fittings as is appropriate. Put a seal kit through the cylinder whilst you have it apart and you are good to go again. If the threads in the cylinder for the fittings are damaged, you can drill them out one size and tap a new thread. Then use a different brass fitting or adapter. We did this to a similar Baystar (baby Seastar) cylinder a few months back and it is like new again for the cost of only ~$20 or so (we used after-market seals and they were extremely cheap).
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:21 PM
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It's an outboard, going to need a whole new engine, and maybe new boat.
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:21 PM
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one more ez out vote here. just make sure it doesn't bottom out on the shaft.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:22 PM
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Thanks to all (still pondering the new outboard comment......)


Finally found a big enough easy out...

I am going to flush it and replace fillings, bleed, and carry on.........But these lines seem very brittle - someone said that is the way they come? Should I replace them also now?
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Sound Grunt View Post
Thanks to all (still pondering the new outboard comment......)


Finally found a big enough easy out...

I am going to flush it and replace fillings, bleed, and carry on.........But these lines seem very brittle - someone said that is the way they come? Should I replace them also now?
Are they nylon tubing or are they Teleflex factory made hoses?
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacat FL View Post
Are they nylon tubing or are they Teleflex factory made hoses?
They appear to be factory like everything else on the boat. - Look just like the replacement kits teleflex sells - I was just suprised at how hard the plastic is but now I see it is the same (flexibility-wise) out of the wheel as it is in the engine well.... BUT when you cut it with a utility knife it snaps sometime sinto uneven pieces making me think it is too brittle....
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Sound Grunt View Post
They appear to be factory like everything else on the boat. - Look just like the replacement kits teleflex sells - I was just suprised at how hard the plastic is but now I see it is the same (flexibility-wise) out of the wheel as it is in the engine well.... BUT when you cut it with a utility knife it snaps sometime sinto uneven pieces making me think it is too brittle....
Seastar has a nylon tube for inboard applications but their special factory made hoses must be used in OB applications. Yours don't look like the right type from the picture you posted. See the data below:

http://ww2.seastarsteering.com/HOSE_...SE/ob_hose.htm


HOSE AND TUBING The tubing or hose requirements depend on the type of steering system being considered.
Application Tubing/Hose Requirements Notes Outboards
Inboards, SSII
Outboard Hose Sterndrives
Seadrives
Inboards, SSI
Inboard/Sterndrive Tubing
3/8" Dia. Nylon or Copper Tube
Do Not use nylon tubing in Outboard Steering applications
DO NOT CUT OUTBOARD
HYDRAULIC HOSE
General Considerations

In most hydraulic steering installations the cylinder body moves as the motor, outdrive or tiller arm is articulated. Provide sufficient hose length to allow full-uninterrupted steering motion including trim and tilt. If your splashwell is rated for a dual engine application or you are mounting the engines on a gill bracket you must provide enough steering hose to rig either twin or single engines. Inboard or Sterndrive steering installations that use 3/8" copper or extruded nylon tube must have a swaged hydraulic hose kit (HF5508) between the steering cylinder and the rigid tube to provide a flexible connection.
DO NOT use extruded nylon tube for outboard installations.

************************************************

OUTBOARD HOSE SeaStar Outboard hoses are available in kit's (includes two hoses) ranging in length from 2' - 30'. Hydraulic Hose must be protected from chaffing and any possible contact or interference with assembly screws or sharp edges of any type.
The Hydraulic hoses should be secured along the routing path wherever possible and should not be allowed to hang free in any area where they could become a safety hazard. Teleflex recommends the use of a rigging tube, PVC piping or conduit for the safe secure installation of hydraulic hoses. Do not install hoses in such a way that they may become exposed to high heat areas such as engine components (i.e.; manifold or exhaust components) or highly corrosive areas such as battery fumes or electrical connections.
Continuous kinking, chaffing, rubbing or twisting may eventually weaken hose(s) to a point where it could rupture from normal steering pressure causing loss of steering, resulting in personal or property damage. Visually inspect all hoses and fittings for wear and or damage as part of your regular annual maintenance. Replace any hose or components suspect of excessive wear.
Available SeaStar Hose Kits: How to Order Each part number contains two hoses of equal length. They are available in lengths from 2 feet to 40 feet.
Length of Hose Kit Part # Length of Hose Kit Part # Feet (meters) Feet (meters) 2'
3'
4'
5'
6'
8'
10'
12'
14'

(0.61m)
(0.91m)
(1.22m)
(1.52m)
(1.83m)
(2.44m)
(3.05m)
(3.66m)
(4.27m)
HO5102
HO5103
HO5104
HO5105
HO5106
HO5108
HO5110
HO5112
HO5114
16'
18'
20'
22'
24'
26'
28'
30'
40'
(4.88m)
(5.49m)
(6.10m)
(6.71m)
(7.32m)
(7.92m)
(8.53m)
(9.14m)
(12.19m)
HO5116
HO5118
HO5120
HO5122
HO5124
HO5126
HO5128
HO5130
HO5140*
* Special Order

Outboard hoses are supplied with pre-attached hose fittings on both ends.

In order to prevent hose kinking, bend restrictors are supplied on one end of each hose in the kit. The end of the hose with the bend restrictor is to be attached to the cylinder.



Determining the required hose lengths for Outboard Steering installations From the following illustrations (figures A through I), select the situation which best suits your application and note the:
a) cylinder location,
b) number of cylinders,
c) type of cylinders,
d) number of steering stations, and
e) the number of hose and fitting kits required.

Single Station System
  1. From the illustration that suits your application note the number of hose and fitting kits required.
  2. Measure along the intended path of the hose routing for each of the required hose kits.
  3. Round up the measurement to the next even digit and add 2 feet (0.6m). This is the length of hose kit required.
  4. Order hose kit(s) part no. HO51_ _. The last two digits correspond to the length of hose kit.

  • Measure from center of the cylinder(s) and helm(s) Some installations require more than 1 hose kit and additional fitting kits (see parts list for each figure).
  • Minimum bend radius for outboard hose is 2-1/2" (6 cm).
  • Outboard cylinders move. They are subject to engine trim & tilt. Enough slack must be left in the hoses to prevent kinking. Do not cut the hose. This will destroy the hose. Once cut there is no means to field swage fittings to the ends of the hose.
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:04 AM
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while you have the ramm off replace the end caps and seals , find a parker store and have some new hoses made .
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:49 PM
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I was able to order the hydraulic lines by the foot from Sims Yamaha and Andy. the problem I had was that the new hydraulic unit came with different fittings than the old ones on my splashwell. Ended up cutting them off and using the reuseable ends off the old lines. Call Andy at Sims and let him know what fittings you have on your old lines and he will make sure the right ones are installed on your new lines.
They are not cheap, but what is reliability worth?
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Sound Grunt View Post
Ok, I broke off these brass 90 deg. fittings where the lines go into the hydraulic cylinder. Its hard to tell if the cylinder itself is damaged - anyway is this repairable ?- I am thinking with an easy-out ( I vaquely remember using such a thing years ago) or some such extraction tool I can replace the fittings or should replace the cylinder - its 12 years old. Since I may have bent the rod or damaged the area where the fittings go in......

The way it happened is that after the addition of the lift bracket I had to be careful to only go full tilt up only with the motor turned full left or right (due to these futtings hitting the transim) and I forgot....

Also should I replace all the lines as the area exposed to the light in the engine well seem very brittle - or do you just cut into and replace that section?

Thanks

Attachment 136050


hey there - sorry for the late reply. For sure you need to replace the fittings. These are available in kit part # HF6145.

In regards to the hose/tubing that you have there. It does look like our tubing. We do not recommend this tube on outboard boats as this tube is not as flexible as the hoses that we do recommend. When you are turning the wheel, the steering cylinder body is moving back and fourth. Because of this movement, and the fact that the hoses are connected to the cylinder body, we only recommend the use of the hose. The hose has a lot more give to it than the tubing does.

I will admit that I have seen tubing used on outboards in the past. It seems to work, but, we do not recommend it

NOTE: The tubing and the hoses have the same operating and burst pressures... We are more concerned about the kinking of the tubing. Kinking over and over and over may eventually lead to a tube breaking... this would dump all of the fluid out of the system and you will no longer have steering control

thanks and hope that this helps

Marc
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:04 PM
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I will admit that I have seen tubing used on outboards in the past. It seems to work, but, we do not recommend it
Marc
the hoses were a great improvement when they came out. not to carbon date myself
pull pull cable steering with pulleys and a drum on the other end of the steering wheel shaft, that the cable wrapped around. were the norm till the seventies. when horsepower passed the 75hp mark. and seastar came out with a practical hydraulic steering system, to handle the ever increasing HP. the latest configeration while a definate improvement, was a problem for outboard rudder references for autopilots. (thats another thread) everyone used the tubing till the hoses came out. and even still.
they work fine if you do it right.
personally i would use the hoses from the cylinder to the the transom and tubing from the transom to the helm
although there is a case to be made for continuous hose stem to stern. with no extra fittings and connections.

Last edited by philgorp; 10-13-2010 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:43 PM
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Thanks to all esp Seacat FL and Sea Star!

I did replace the fittings and it worked great last year. BUT I still have the inboard type hose/tubing. So Now I am going to replace that. I assume I can use the same fittings? Do I have to replace the ferrules?

Another question - one short cut would be to replace just the last 6 or 8 feet or so where it is outside and in the enginewell area - this could be done via astraight thru fitting in the aft gunnel area. Easy access there. This way the section that bends will have the right type outboard hose

Or I replace it all - any thoughts? Never had any leaks anywhere...
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:50 AM
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Ok I am finally getting around to changing all the hoses from the inboard type tubing to the outboard hose. - the current application has these brass pipe type fitting on one end (into the piston) and compression type plumbing brass fitting where the hose goes in. Why can't I just get running feet of the outboard hose and use the current fittings. Do I need really to change over to the new telestar fittigs? Why did they change? SeaStar? Anyone? I'll post a pic of the current application in a few miuntes..
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