The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

Go Back   The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > The Boating Forum
Search

Notices

Random Quote: SOP is reality in action!
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-22-2010, 04:43 AM
  #1    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 411
Unhappy Seastar hydraulic steering problems - need your help please.

I have Seastar hydraulic steering, the helm is a 1.7 and one cylinder on stb motor with tie bar. Motors are Evinrude 225's.
When on plane turning to the port (left) the wheel is stiff and requires much more effort to turn. Turning to stb is easier. After turning to stb and turning wheel back to center (turning to port) it is stiff. The boat seems to want to wander to stb. If I were to take my hand off wheel, it would go to stb. I think if I were to hold the wheel, the boat would go to stb . I am constanly correcting my course - my wake would make one think a drunk was at the helm!
When at the dock, the littlest movement in the wheel does translate back to the motors.

My props spin out, and the little rudders on the motors look to be straight.

I was thinking I have some air in the system?? The boat is a 2000 that I recently bought. Looking over all the work orders, I don't see anything ever done to steering, so I assume it hasn't been touched since installed.

Please help, not sure what I should do to correct.
__________________
BillR
'00 Scarab Sport 302
'02 Cigarette Top Gun TS
'02 PowerQuest 340
'00 PowerQuest 280
'98 Wellcraft 260SE
'98 Scarab 22
'97 Baja Outlaw 20
'97 Seadoo Speedster
'72 Checkmate 16'
'65 Glastron Jetflight V142
Billr302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 12:57 PM
  #2    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 411
Default

anyone??
__________________
BillR
'00 Scarab Sport 302
'02 Cigarette Top Gun TS
'02 PowerQuest 340
'00 PowerQuest 280
'98 Wellcraft 260SE
'98 Scarab 22
'97 Baja Outlaw 20
'97 Seadoo Speedster
'72 Checkmate 16'
'65 Glastron Jetflight V142
Billr302 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 09-22-2010, 01:13 PM
  #3    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 927
Send a message via Yahoo to GerryRM3
Default

Almost sounds like a trim tab problem. The boat should go straight when you let go of the wheel if the motors are parrelel to each other and the trim tabs set right.
__________________
USS Liberty--Never Forget

GerryRM3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 01:15 PM
  #4    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Outer Banks, NC
Posts: 1,870
Send a message via AIM to jaybyrd83ecu
Default

Is the tie bar the correct length? Just a shot in the dark here.
__________________
41 Hatteras - Hatt'ras Bound Sportfishing
www.obxfishingoutdoors.com
jaybyrd83ecu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 01:19 PM
  #5    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,850
Default

The only thing that makes sense to me right now would be to try a bleeding procedure and see if that is the culprit.

With motors as straight as possible, the tie-bar doesn't look screwed up, right? You can eyeball to see if you are toed in or out with helm mid-point travel of the helm (count the turns)? Having just bought the boat, you never know what other people do, sometimes things/adjustments can be way out of whack.

Also, with twins, although this won't be your present problem, you do not need the zinc anodes with the fin. You can use the flat zinc plates.
Local Motion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 01:22 PM
  #6    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 431
Default

I've got the same set up. Your problem sounds more like the trim tabs on the motors, or the tie bar is adjusted improperly. Both will cause the same effect. Having a single cylinder on a twin outboard means everything has to be perfect to work right.
Endtuition01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 02:10 PM
  #7    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 411
Default

Visually, the motors look to be aligned, but I plan to check tie bar for proper toe in. I assume it is like stern drives = 1/8" toe in?

Just to be clear - I do NOT need the little trim tab rudders on the motor cavitation plate?
__________________
BillR
'00 Scarab Sport 302
'02 Cigarette Top Gun TS
'02 PowerQuest 340
'00 PowerQuest 280
'98 Wellcraft 260SE
'98 Scarab 22
'97 Baja Outlaw 20
'97 Seadoo Speedster
'72 Checkmate 16'
'65 Glastron Jetflight V142
Billr302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 02:33 PM
  #8    
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGERPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maui and SoCal
Posts: 7,104
Default

With the boat moving forward at about a fast idle, disconnect the tie bar. Then bring the boat up to speed and see where the boat wants the tie bar to be adjusted. It sounds nuts, but the engines will follow each other just fine and track just like the tie bar was attached as long as you are moving forward, even from a dead stop. Just don't try it in reverse. Every hull is a little different and this way you find out where the tie bar should be to add as little drag as possible from alignment.
__________________
Kern O.
kerno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 04:05 AM
  #9    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 362
Default

I experience a similar issue when trim tabs are not in the same position.
__________________
b622r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 10:06 AM
  #10    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billr302 View Post
I have Seastar hydraulic steering, the helm is a 1.7 and one cylinder on stb motor with tie bar. Motors are Evinrude 225's.
When on plane turning to the port (left) the wheel is stiff and requires much more effort to turn. Turning to stb is easier. After turning to stb and turning wheel back to center (turning to port) it is stiff. The boat seems to want to wander to stb. If I were to take my hand off wheel, it would go to stb. I think if I were to hold the wheel, the boat would go to stb . I am constanly correcting my course - my wake would make one think a drunk was at the helm!
When at the dock, the littlest movement in the wheel does translate back to the motors.

My props spin out, and the little rudders on the motors look to be straight.

I was thinking I have some air in the system?? The boat is a 2000 that I recently bought. Looking over all the work orders, I don't see anything ever done to steering, so I assume it hasn't been touched since installed.

Please help, not sure what I should do to correct.

a good test to perform to rule the steering out of the equation is as follows;

* center engines.
* mark steering cylinder(s) shaft(s) with a black marker
* measure from that mark to any fixed point on the cylinder body
* take boat to an area where you can play around, without running into anyone/anything
* let boat veer off course for at least 3 minutes, or, until you have made more than a 90degree turn.
* Shut boat down.
* go back to the marks that you have made and see if they have moved.

At no time during the test to you want to touch the steering wheel (unless you need to avoid something) if you have to turn the wheel for whatever reason, you will want to re-start the test.

Results:
* if the mark that you made on teh cylinder(s) has moved, then the steering is not holding course (see below cures)
* if the mark has NOT moved, then the steering is holding and is not at fault.

Cures for movement:
* always start with bleeding of the system (be sure to run the autopilot pump, if fitted, during the bleeding). Bleeding will tell us fluid condition, and, will rule air as being the problem.


Thanks and let me know how you make out

marc
__________________
SeaStar Solutions' technical support group monitors this site on a periodic basis. If you have any questions concerning SeaStar Solutions products, email us at: seastar@seastarsolutions.com. You can expect a response back within the next business day.

SeaStar Solutions, manufacturer of Optimus, SeaStar, BayStar, Capilano, and Hynautic brands of hydraulic and electric steering / control systems.

http://www.seastarsolutions.com/
SeaStar Steering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 01:02 PM
  #11    
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kauai,Hawaii
Posts: 2
Default

are the props counter rotating? this will cause drift wander etc.. at higher speeds especially with high hp motors
Napaliskipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 03:17 PM
  #12    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 411
Default

The props spin to the outside.
I bled the system, looks like someone put red ATF in there. I flushed it all out and the steering is MUCH better. I think there is still room for improvement though.
I bought a new tilt helm, and I'll see if that helps any.
__________________
BillR
'00 Scarab Sport 302
'02 Cigarette Top Gun TS
'02 PowerQuest 340
'00 PowerQuest 280
'98 Wellcraft 260SE
'98 Scarab 22
'97 Baja Outlaw 20
'97 Seadoo Speedster
'72 Checkmate 16'
'65 Glastron Jetflight V142
Billr302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 06:35 PM
  #13    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,438
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billr302 View Post
The props spin to the outside.
I bled the system, looks like someone put red ATF in there. I flushed it all out and the steering is MUCH better. I think there is still room for improvement though.
I bought a new tilt helm, and I'll see if that helps any.
it should fix it. you have a common problem with your seastar helm. the lockout valve shuttle is sticking. yours is sticking to the port side causing the port checkball not to seat properly and not opening the starbd side checkball. when you turn to port there is a limited way for the fluid from the starbd side of the ram to return to the helm. with the port side check ball leaking, it will slowly (at first) creap to starbd.

this helm must have some bad water damage. i posted something about fixing this recently
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-...ome-fluid.html
philgorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 05:58 AM
  #14    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 152
Default

Sounds like air in one of the lines. Check fluid level, and re pressurize the system. If that does not work bleed the system, and re pressurize.
sea star has a very good instruction guide for troubleshooting and procedures. I just serviced mine last month.
FYI- do not add ATF to the system it will change the ease of steering
__________________
--------------
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena"
Flagstaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 09:57 AM
  #15    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,438
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagstaff View Post
Sounds like air in one of the lines. Check fluid level, and re pressurize the system. If that does not work bleed the system, and re pressurize.
sea star has a very good instruction guide for troubleshooting and procedures. I just serviced mine last month.
FYI- do not add ATF to the system it will change the ease of steering
please explain how air would cause the symptoms the op has provided??
also the system the op described is not pressurized
philgorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 01:13 PM
  #16    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 152
Default

"When on plane turning to the port (left) the wheel is stiff and requires much more effort to turn. "

The sea star system should be pressurized to check for air in the system. If you have air in the system, the steering will not be as responsive on that side. I would not rule out the check valve but I would try, to re bleed and pressurize first before rippin into stuff.

http://ww2.seastarsteering.com/PDFs/782920F.pdf
oil level and system check section.
__________________
--------------
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena"
Flagstaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 01:33 PM
  #17    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Portland, TX
Posts: 129
Default

I had this same problem and it was the auto pilot. I dont know if you have one but mine is a Garmin and the pump went out and fouled up the check valves. Everyone kept telling me I wasn't bleeding it right. Do you have an auto pilot?
DRILHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 03:00 PM
  #18    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,438
Default

if he had said spongy i could see it. but he said stiff, as in difficult to turn.
where in this system would air impede the flow of the fluid? the cylinder, the lines, or the helm?
philgorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 05:06 PM
  #19    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 15,909
Default

I dont think its the steering - are the motors toed in or out correctly? Alhtought this generally will not cause a pull it could exaccerbate it (if the engine trim tabs - little rudders - are incorrect - I am not sure they are supposed to be straight back?) Anyway find out from the boat dealer - also, See section on toe in. In my experience seastar steering systems are very good at self bleeding. I am not familiar with he valve issues discussed above. There is a seastar forum or sponsor here, who was very helpful for me.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/ref...eMounting.html

happy boating

OOps I see Sea Star Steering already piped in - LISTEN TO HIM!
__________________
1st Cav Div Air Assault Infantry RVN
-Can Do........ and .......Carry On -

Last edited by LI Sound Grunt; 12-05-2010 at 05:17 PM.
LI Sound Grunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 05:48 PM
  #20    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,438
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Sound Grunt View Post
I am not familiar with he valve issues discussed above.
apparently not a lot of people on this board are. this system is not rocket science.
philgorp is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 



©2009 TheHullTruth.com

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0