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Old 08-15-2010, 04:16 PM
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Default Verado 350 Sci vs Optimax 300XS

Hi!

I hope you are well

I have a Phantom 25 offshore hull (race hull mid 1980-ties Great Britain Endurance race) with twin Merc 2,5 EFI SS engines (280 hp each). The services and fuel costs are too much to handle unfortunately, so I am to sell the engines this winter. Top speed is 87-88 mph. The weight of the boat is approx. 3,000 lbs wth the driver.

Before I mounted the twin engines, I had a Promax 300. Not the x version. The boat ran 76-77 mph spinning a Tempest 25 at 6150 rpms.

I am considering buying a Verado 350 Sci, alternatively a Optimax 300XS. I have been reading about the Verado performance. Have anyone of you compared the 350 vs 300XS?

I have read about the upgraded lower unit. Does it have waterintake in front of the bullet, or only on the sides? I used a Torque master lower unit on my PM 300. Since the speed is lower than 85 mph, there will be no need of a nose cone version. However, I am curios about this new lower unit. How high can it be jacked compared to a Torque Master? Approx the same? Is the new version thicker than the first version, or just longer (looks longer on pictures)

Would it be possible to mount a Torquemaster lower unit on the mid section instead of the stock lower unit?

Thanks for your help!

Cheeers Toffen
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Old 08-15-2010, 05:30 PM
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my 250xs' have fleetmasters w/ low water pickups (that's what they call the ones with holes in the front of the bullet). Pretty sure the 300XS has the LWP's too. Not sure about the sci but you should be able to find out on the Mecr racing website.
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:22 PM
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The services and fuel costs are too much to handle on your 2.5's so you are going to drop 30 grand on new engines?
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:31 PM
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ive had a 300xs and 350sci on the same hull, single engine application. top end performance is within 1mph, however the sci is burning 34gal and hour whereas the opti is burning 24gal an hour. for what its worth, a 300 verado gear case on the sci is worth 3mph on a 24 yellowfin.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:27 AM
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Default Verado 350 sci vs Optimax 300XS

Hi!

Thanks

The service costs for using my 2.5 EFI's are approx. USD 8,500 (Norway is not a low cost country) plus fuel and oil costs. In all approx USD 18,000 for 40 hrs use...

The service costs, fuel and oil for one 300XS / 350 Sci running in average 4,000 rpms 40 hrs are approx. USD 9,500.

I can sell the two engines for approx. USD 25,000. A new engine cost if bought in US and plus local taxes; Optimax 300XS USD 16,000 plus local taxes = 28,750 and a Verado 350Sci USD 23,500 plus local taxes = USD 40,000. If bought in Norway, add 40%...

The difference between a new 300XS and selling the two engines are not much. Buying a 350 Sci is more ofcourse. If it only add 1 mph with the new lowr unit, it is not worth it. However, if it is possible to use a Torquemaster lower unit on it - the 3 extra mph will be.

So the question is if its possible to add a Torquemaster lower unit used on a 300XS / Promax 300 to the 350 Sci. I have one spare.

How does the 300 Verado lower unit work on the 350 Sci? Does it hold up at all?

Speak soon and thanks for your help.

Cheeers, ToffenG

Last edited by Toffen; 08-16-2010 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 08-16-2010, 03:19 AM
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Hi!

I just spoken to a local dealer and he told me that 350 Sci now comes with a 3rd edition lower unit. It looks much like a NTX drive. I did see a new 350 Sci mounted on a Cougar Rib the another day, and this engine did have a lower unit not with a regular torpedo shape. Do you know anything about this?

Cheeers, ToffenG
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:59 AM
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Homesite would love to find out about these new lowers I'll bet.
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:19 AM
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Yeah where is Homesite
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:25 AM
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Hi!

I am not sure if its true if a new version is out there, but the new 350 Sci I see in the harbour did have a lower unit with a shape like the NTX drive. Not that typical torpedo shape. Smaller in front than back, and a little square like.

Is it possible to mount a Torquemaster lower unit to a 350 Sci. Or is a regular 300 lower unit just as strong. I ran a upgraded Promax 300 (SVS etc) with a Torquemaster for many years with good results. And the lowr unit is fast.

Cheeers, ToffenG
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:49 AM
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Contact Joey at http://www.sundancemarineusa.com/ He should be able to answer your questions
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:06 PM
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Hi!

I have investigated a little. You can put your 300 Verado gear parts inside a Sportmaster and Torquemaster housing. However, you can not use a complete Sportmaster and Torquemaster lower unit on 350 Sci. The driveshafts do not fit. I got this info from ravenribs.com who is familiar with both 300XS and 350 Sci. If there are no new 3rd edition lower unit for 350 sci, the easiest will be to buy a 300 Verado lowr unit complete, and use the 350 sci verson as spare. Its another USD 4,000 though. Lets hope a 3rd edition lower unit exists

Cheeers and thanks, Toffen
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Old 08-16-2010, 03:26 PM
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You can use the Sportmaster/Torquemaster you just have to have the drive shaft resplined or swapped out to the four stroke one vs the optimax one. The splines that go into the powerhead are different, thats it.
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:54 PM
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Sounds like the easiest and cheapest way is to get the 300XS, just as fast with less fuel!!
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:06 AM
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Hi!

Thankts Captone The Verado 350 sci consumes approx. 40 litre at 4,000 rpms. The Optimax 300XS consumers approx. 42-45 litre at the same rpm. Since the 350 Sci will propped with a smaller prop due to higher wot rpm, the figures will be the same per distance. 4,000 rpms is my normal cruise speed.

Cheeers, Toffen
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:18 AM
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dont know where youre fuel burn numbers are coming from, but i assure you the 300xs is more efficient, across the board. these are numbers taken from the same hull

300xs
when propped for 6400rpm, burns 8.5gph at 4000rpm, 23.5-24gph at wot.
when propped for 6100rpm, burns 10gph at 4000rpm, 23.5-24gph wot.

350sci
when propped for 6800rpm, burns 10gph at 4000rpm, 34gph at wot.
when propped for 6500rpm, burns 11.5gph at 4000rpm, 34gph at wot

my boat ran 69 with the 300xs, and runs 70 with the 350sci. because its short on revs, the 300xs spins a bigger wheel to run the same speed. as a result, it not only burns less fuel at cruise, its running faster as well. at 4000rpm, i was able to cruise at 4.5mpg with the 300xs whereas the 350sci is 4mpg. both engines are even more efficient at 3500rpm. the 350sci really drinks fuel over 4000rpm whereas the fuel flow is more linear on the 300xs.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:18 AM
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Hi!

Thanks for this

Good to know. I got the 300xs figures from a friend plus the magazine bass & walley boat magazine. The Verado figures I got from actionrib company in Denmark. They use 350 sci on their 8,5 meters ribs.

Here are some figures:

8,5 meters rib:

2000 RPM: 15,2 L/H
2500 RPM: 18,6 L/H
3000 RPM: 24,7 L/H
3500 RPM: 32,4 L/H
4000 RPM: 40,5 L/H / 10,65 GPH
4500 RPM: 51,6 L/H
5000 RPM: 65,1 L/H
5500 RPM: 85,0 L/H
6000 RPM: 110 L/H
6500 RPM: 119,8 L/H

Bass And Walley Boats test of a Bullett 21XRD

At a barely turning 2500 rpm and 29.7 mph, we recorded a stingy 4.4 gph—which computes to 6.7 mpg. When we dropped the hammer a little and brought the engine to 4000 rpm (almost 60 mph), we still only burned 12 gph, which is 5 mpg.

Engine Speed Fuel Economy Sound
(RPM) (MPH) (GPH) (MPG) Range (mi.) dB-A
1000 5.2 1.7 3.1 99 -
1500 6.4 2.9 2.2 72 -
2000 9.9 4.1 2.4 78 -
2500 29.7 4.4 6.8 220 -
3000 40.1 6.9 5.8 188 -
3500 49.4 9.7 5.1 165 - / 36,9
4000 59.7 11.9 5.0 162 - / 45,22
4500 67.8 14.9 4.6 149 - / 56,62
5000 78.5 16.4 4.8 156 -
5500 87.6 20.2 4.3 139 -
6000 96.5 24.5 3.9 126 -
6250 (WOT) 101.4 26.1 3.9 126 -

I have read a few posts now about 300xs vs 350 sci, and for some people the 300xs is almost as fast, for others the 350 sci is 3-4 mph faster. So it will depend on the set up in the end. The question is ofcourse if its worth the extra money

I have a torque master lower unit from my PM 300, so I can use that and pick up speed. And of a new type lower unit is on its way, it will also add to the decicion making process.


Cheeers, ToffenG

Last edited by Toffen; 08-17-2010 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:09 AM
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Hi!

Got this email today:

All,

I have heard that there are some questions coming in looking for Verado
models with the new Poseidon gearcase. I just wanted to reiterate that the
start of production for the Poseidon-equipped Verado models is as follows:

Standard Poseidon (black finish, 1.85:1 ratio, 1" propshaft): September
26, 2010
Heavy Duty Poseidon (silver finish, 1.75:1 ratio, 1.25" propshaft):
November 26, 2010


The sales forecast that you will submit with the next submission should
reflect the new model codes in the file here-below with starting sales
forecast month as follows:

Verado 225 -300 HP: October 2010
Verado 350: December 2010

Your sales forecast for the months prior to the months here-above still
needs to show the current model codes.

The dealer network will be informed of the new gearcase via a service
bulletin.

Please also bear in mind that a multi-engine boat must run either all
Verado (current) gearcases or all Poseidon gearcases, but not a combination
thereof.


I am not sure how the new Poseidon gearcase will look. And if its faster. Time will show.

Cheeers, ToffenG
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:14 AM
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I have some extensive experience with both of these engines..
In your application I would stick with the 300XS.
Snappier throttle response..
BTW>
Not to corect anyone here... But..
The 300XS when properly propped and on stock mapping burns 28.75 GPH at WOT.
The 350 SCI burns the number that was stated..

IN our testing.. The 300XS and 350 SCi were about close with the 300XS being a little more efficient considering oil burn in one engine versus oil changes costs in the other.

The gear boxes are a big difference..
The 350 SCI box is a little slower.. With the 300 Verado case on the 350 SCI makes this motor VERY fast but,,, there is a possible failure downside.

The 350 box does not like to be lifted to much where the 300 Verado box is ok with it..
The 300XS has many options in Cases, sounds like the torque master would be your best bet.. Yes it has holes in the front of the cone..

We found with the 350SCI vs 300XS there was a 4-5 mph difference in speeds with SCI being the fastest.. BUT we were not using the new style SCI case. And our 300XS had torque master. We did not run the new case to adjust production testing..
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:25 AM
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Hi!

Thanks!

Have you ever compared how high you could run the torquemaster vs old style verado lower unit vs the 2nd gen lower unit. I have been reccommended to block the three upper waterholes to get the lower unit higher. I did the same with my torquemaster lower unit back in time. My torquemaster did not have holes in front. Just on the sides. The trick is to get the lower unit out of the water without loosing psi and bowlift. I am curious how the poseidon lower unit will be in that department ...

Cheeers, Toffen
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:36 AM
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Toffen I would think that the poseidon lu would address those issues and perform better for the 350 SCI. Will be interesting to see the numbers.
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