www.1outboard.com Blackbird Industries warranty Claim on my Yamaha F225 4 Stroke

[Mr. Demeanor]

I think its great that A1 is here on THT. More people proabably find out to stay away from him because of it.

[A1 Outboard]

Originally Posted by jrolin1

A1 - Cool on the good service on the 90 Johnson. What is going on with the F225 that the thread is about?

The F225 Yamaha motor was disassembled the day it arrived and assembled the day the part came in from Yamaha so what do you want from me ?
As far as the "lady" goes she broke her contract with us when she refused to return the trade which she was given credit for. The sales agreement was that the trade was to be ready for shipment the next day in the same container we shipped her new motor in.....We tried to call her for 2 weeks and never heard from her ,till the new motor was having problems. she would of been given the option at that time to return the motor for a refund or take to De land,Fl (about a hour ride)for repairs after we recieve the trade as agreed ,no trade no repair. Instead she leaves town still not shipping the trade and then faxes us to say she is stopping payment on her credit card. Then we get a call from some person in Ill who says he has our motor ready to return so we send a Fed Ex truck in.......guess what he isnt there so he calls back to say hes only there a hour or so a day but he MIGHT be there on monday most of the day. Full time mechanic????

[signmansez]

Originally Posted by A1 Outboard

The F225 Yamaha motor was disassembled the day it arrived and assembled the day the part came in from Yamaha so what do you want from me ?
As far as the "lady" goes she broke her contract with us when she refused to return the trade which she was given credit for. The sales agreement was that the trade was to be ready for shipment the next day in the same container we shipped her new motor in.....We tried to call her for 2 weeks and never heard from her ,till the new motor was having problems. she would of been given the option at that time to return the motor for a refund or take to De land,Fl (about a hour ride)for repairs after we recieve the trade as agreed ,no trade no repair. Instead she leaves town still not shipping the trade and then faxes us to say she is stopping payment on her credit card. Then we get a call from some person in Ill who says he has our motor ready to return so we send a Fed Ex truck in.......guess what he isnt there so he calls back to say hes only there a hour or so a day but he MIGHT be there on monday most of the day. Full time mechanic????

If this type of incident with your company happened once or twice with glowing reviews from others in between, your explanation would be credible.

Your response to every customer complaint, and there have been several, is the same. It's the customers fault, the truckers fault, the customers' shop's fault.

If my name and business were smeared all over the internet, I would look for a different profession. There is no way this type of press can help your business, add to that the stance you take on every complaint.

What amazes me is that your ''company'' is doing something right by being able to keep attracting ''suckers'' to buy into your claims on your website.

Would it not be easier and more profitable to just do the job right and handle your disgruntled customers with care instead of ignoring them or blaming them for the troubles with their repairs?

I am in business and know that you cannot please everyone but you all seem to piss off more than your fair share.

[Pamelalee]

This is nothing but a lie. Mike you knewthe deal when the motor was purchased that you were suppose to pick up our motor after we recieved yours. However you did send a bill of lading for my motor to be shipped to you. Which took almost three weeks to get. When the bill of lading was received it was for me once again to drop our motor off in Tampa at the depot which was not the deal. Then out of the blue yesterday fedex shows up to pick up our motor. Do you really think I was going to let my motor leave here yesterday? As far as you calling me that is also a lie. I pulled all my phone records with incoming and outgoing calls from both your numbers the last time you called me was on 6/1/2010. I also told you when we spoke that you could have the old motor once your motor was running and you said you would handle that. to clarify yeah you sent a truck to Florida to pick up my motor, not to Illinois to pick up your motor. Do you really think I was letting my motor leave here and get in your possession. Then I would be out my motor plus my money. You were also told that the boat was in Illinois with my husband. As far as you bashing another state for not being there. You never are there you never return phone calls emails or faxes. Why because you are out spending everyones money that you have ripped off. Remember the day that you screamed at me and told me just to send the f****ing motor back and you would refund our money. Well just do that and this will be over. You have an excuse for every transaction it is always someone elses fault. Own it you are a crook.

[mike carrigan]

I'm in the business of selling boats that primarily are new. Some used as well. My job has me doing this all over the world. And I sell a lot of boats, a whole lot of boats, new and used, and ship world wide. I comment on THT and other sites as to my product, any issue, but never solicit, never.

I'm not commenting on the issues being posted. I know nothing about them and dont presume, nor wish to comment as to merits one way or the other.

What I will say is that buying a used outboard motor, reman or not, is still buying a used outboard motor. It's a used outboard motor. Some have a lot of use, others maybe not. Some lots of salt, others maybe not. In any event, it's a used outboard motor.

Ok, next step, we crate it, ship it maybe a thousand miles (if domestic), rig it and assume all is well? It's a used outboard and all is most likely not going to be well. Would you think otherwise?

Now, there then exsists a logistics nightmare. Shipping a five or six hundred pound outboard back and forth, the rigging, derigging, rerigging, all that's involved can be a tremendus job and hassle, and extremly expensive and time sensitive.

It looks to me that first the buyer should consider buying a used outboard motor under all of these circumstances. It looks to me that a legitimite arguement can be made both ways. It looks like there are two sides to the stories.

If a company, any company, chooses to be in the business of selling used boats and outboard motors, there will be, not maybe, there will be issues. It looks like A1 is trying to resolve them but also in saying that, the customers chose to buy a used outboard motor by mailorder. I promise you the odds of the used motor being rigged and run out with no issues are remote. Then begins the logistics, hassles, and issues involved.

In my case, I will not, ever, sell and deliver a used boat and motor without the customer, domestic or export, first having it checked by a representitive of theirs if they cant do it themselves. I insist on it. I dont have problems, dont want any.

Ok, I'm in the business and have a view that might very well not be shared by many.

[Chet88]

A1 Just go get the motor you sold the lady and refund her money. Get the other guys F225 running. At least this would be a step in the right direction in repairing your damaged reputation.

[Pamelalee]

All of your advice is true and correct about buying a mail order motor. You are right on the money. That is why we accepted the terms of his paperwork which read I quote "Extreme care is taken to ensure your motor is shipped trouble-free. Sometimes, however, minor adjustments or repairs,which are a normal part of installation, must be made. These are your responsibility." When it was just a few minor adjustments we agreed to that and fully understand that due to shipping that things comes loose. But I do not think that a blown head is not a minor adjustment. As far as taking the motor to Deland that is the first time ever I have heard of that. Also as far as posting to this site regarding our problems with A1 this is the only forum where he answers. Since he is dodging phone calls, emails and faxes. The mechanic that has your motor told you that it was crated and ready to be picked up weeks ago. We were told weeellll it is the 4th of july call back on Tuesday. Which the owner of the shop did. Then he was told wellll the secretary was out of the office and she does the bill of ladings call back on Monday. I am truly sorry to all the board members for having to endure what seems to be tit for tat at this moment but he will not respond any other way. Thanks again for your understanding.

[davidkuhlmann]

Originally Posted by mike carrigan

I'm in the business of selling boats that primarily are new. Some used as well. My job has me doing this all over the world. And I sell a lot of boats, a whole lot of boats, new and used, and ship world wide. I comment on THT and other sites as to my product, any issue, but never solicit, never.

I'm not commenting on the issues being posted. I know nothing about them and dont presume, nor wish to comment as to merits one way or the other.

What I will say is that buying a used outboard motor, reman or not, is still buying a used outboard motor. It's a used outboard motor. Some have a lot of use, others maybe not. Some lots of salt, others maybe not. In any event, it's a used outboard motor.

Ok, next step, we crate it, ship it maybe a thousand miles (if domestic), rig it and assume all is well? It's a used outboard and all is most likely not going to be well. Would you think otherwise?

Now, there then exsists a logistics nightmare. Shipping a five or six hundred pound outboard back and forth, the rigging, derigging, rerigging, all that's involved can be a tremendus job and hassle, and extremly expensive and time sensitive.

It looks to me that first the buyer should consider buying a used outboard motor under all of these circumstances. It looks to me that a legitimite arguement can be made both ways. It looks like there are two sides to the stories.

If a company, any company, chooses to be in the business of selling used boats and outboard motors, there will be, not maybe, there will be issues. It looks like A1 is trying to resolve them but also in saying that, the customers chose to buy a used outboard motor by mailorder. I promise you the odds of the used motor being rigged and run out with no issues are remote. Then begins the logistics, hassles, and issues involved.

In my case, I will not, ever, sell and deliver a used boat and motor without the customer, domestic or export, first having it checked by a representitive of theirs if they cant do it themselves. I insist on it. I dont have problems, dont want any.

Ok, I'm in the business and have a view that might very well not be shared by many.

Mike Pamelalee said she "purchased a 125 Hp remanufactured motor from A1 not used"

[Jeff42899]

Anybody else notice that this "core return" smells a lot like the crates issue? He's creative at coming up with excuses as to why he won't make it right....

[Narragansett Outrage]

Originally Posted by mike carrigan

Ok, I'm in the business and have a view that might very well not be shared by many.

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with your comments; I think we can all understand that there are risks involved with purchasing a motor by mail-order - it's definitely a roll of the dice, and the only way you can lower the risk is by doing your homework on the seller.

You yourself alleviate those concerns/potential issues by insisting on having the motor checked out by one of the customer's representatives. It sounds, therefore, like you don't offer (or need to offer) any kind of guarantee. That's a business procedure you've insisted on, and it appears to have worked well for you.

A1 appears to have addressed those concerns by offering a guarantee - a guarantee which, in the end, can only be exercised (it appears) at great additional expense to the buyer.

But more important than the difference between how you handle the potential problems would be how you handle actual problems. If you don't offer a guarantee and their inspector said it was OK, you'd be well within your rights to totally ignore someone who has a problem with something they purchased from you. But (and I'm guessing here) you probably wouldn't do that - you'd probably diplomatically remind them that your under no obligation to make anything right, and then you'd go out of your way to make it right; then word would travel about what an upright guy you are, and any cost to you would be more than offset by the new customers.

In A1's case (and we only generally see the vehement complaints), at best they seem to fall back on the tightly legal definition of their contract, doing whatever possible to avoid the slightest additional expense, regardless of what it does to their reputation.

[Pamelalee]

As I stated in my earlier post. I do feel 100% responsible for not checking out this company prior to this purchase. I normally do my homework and I know I should not even try to offer excuses on my behalf because then I would be exhibiting the same behaviour as MIke. However, If there are any Lady's on this post that have a husband that is telling you begging you to get him a motor so he can just go fish. I feel a man works hard all week and if he just wants to go take his boat out on the water and go relax for the weekend and this is his only vice. Then I should try everything in my power to make sure that happens. We where in a push push situation due the fact that my husband was going to Illinois to work for three years and this would be his only recreation while he was away. So after calling Mike and having a 42 minute conversation with him about the purchase (which by the way he was very charming) I decided to make the purchase. Another thing he keeps talking about his warranty as if it was gold. But I have yet to hear of anyone that has been able to collect on his warranty. Just a side note. I have spoken to Mike SR once and my husband has spoken with him twice. Each time we have spoken with him he seems very pleasant and does not seem to have a clue that his son is ripping people off. Or once again I could be wrong on that issue also. Because I do not think you could work in that environment with the phone blowing up all day with cpmplaints lawsuits being filed left and right and not know what is going on in your own business.

[mike carrigan]

Originally Posted by davidkuhlmann

Mike Pamelalee said she "purchased a 125 Hp remanufactured motor from A1 not used"

David, a "reman" is a used outboard motor.
What doe's "remanufactured" mean?
Who's measure?
I know what people would like to think it means.
I've purchased "remanufactured" product from athorized MERCURY shops. Outboards and I/O's. I've paid quite a handsome premium for doing so too.
I've also purchased alledged "remanufactured" product for a lot less money, thought I'd save some money, with some very disapointing results.
David, recognize "used" as to what it is. David, I deal with it all the time.

Look, wanna be as bullitproof as possible? Used-reman, whatever? A local shop, a certified shop as to the brand, a shop that will perform the work, sea trial the boat with you, and be there to immediatly, or as fast as possible, resolve subsequent issues. It's not rocket science.

David, "used" "reman", there's going to be issues. Some expected, some not. I know what is entailed in shipping outboard motors in a crate.

It comes to me as no surprise what so ever that complaints exsist. That's regretable, but in the case of shipping used outboard motors, in a crate, not water tested on the boat, well, pay your money, take your chances.
Why doe's someone do that?
I guess to save money?

Ok, it appears that both parties have their arguement as to the facts. Nothing so unusual about that. Hopefully all will be resolved as painless as possible, as fast as possible. It's a shame it's happened at all. But, if a company chooses to be in the used outboard motor business, better get used to complaints, your gonna have them. That's why I will not sell used to anyone without the product being inspected, hopefully water tested, with them or their rep, signed off. A deposit, clearly stated "refundable" subject to inspection, and sea trial. I dont do it any other way, new, used, demo, repo, I dont care.

[mike carrigan]

Originally Posted by Narragansett Outrage

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with your comments; I think we can all understand that there are risks involved with purchasing a motor by mail-order - it's definitely a roll of the dice, and the only way you can lower the risk is by doing your homework on the seller.

You yourself alleviate those concerns/potential issues by insisting on having the motor checked out by one of the customer's representatives. It sounds, therefore, like you don't offer (or need to offer) any kind of guarantee. That's a business procedure you've insisted on, and it appears to have worked well for you.

A1 appears to have addressed those concerns by offering a guarantee - a guarantee which, in the end, can only be exercised (it appears) at great additional expense to the buyer.

But more important than the difference between how you handle the potential problems would be how you handle actual problems. If you don't offer a guarantee and their inspector said it was OK, you'd be well within your rights to totally ignore someone who has a problem with something they purchased from you. But (and I'm guessing here) you probably wouldn't do that - you'd probably diplomatically remind them that your under no obligation to make anything right, and then you'd go out of your way to make it right; then word would travel about what an upright guy you are, and any cost to you would be more than offset by the new customers.

In A1's case (and we only generally see the vehement complaints), at best they seem to fall back on the tightly legal definition of their contract, doing whatever possible to avoid the slightest additional expense, regardless of what it does to their reputation.

There are "As Is" sales and also sales with full or partial warranties.
I deal with all of it.
And have refunded deposits.
Makes no differance, either way, if one chooses to purchase "sight unseen" so to speak, particularily with used, maybe a thousand miles away, used motor shipped in a crate, Ok, this is America, do it if you so wish. But in doing so it cannot be expected to recieve service like you would from a local dealer. No matter the good intentions, the logistics make for a rough ride. I wouldn't want to play, not on either side.
Again, I'm not presuming to comment on the specific merits, complaints, nothing of the sort.
Hopefully all will be resolved.

[Mist-Rest]

One thing is for damn sure.

If my 200 Merc blows up this weekend I will not be using A1 for a replacement

I was able to stop a friend from using them.

With so much bad press about these guys, I agree that IB should kick them to the curb.

Good luck!

[davidkuhlmann]

Originally Posted by mike carrigan

David, a "reman" is a used outboard motor.
What doe's "remanufactured" mean?
Who's measure?
I know what people would like to think it means.
I've purchased "remanufactured" product from athorized MERCURY shops. Outboards and I/O's. I've paid quite a handsome premium for doing so too.
I've also purchased alledged "remanufactured" product for a lot less money, thought I'd save some money, with some very disapointing results.
David, recognize "used" as to what it is. David, I deal with it all the time.

Look, wanna be as bullitproof as possible? Used-reman, whatever? A local shop, a certified shop as to the brand, a shop that will perform the work, sea trial the boat with you, and be there to immediatly, or as fast as possible, resolve subsequent issues. It's not rocket science.

David, "used" "reman", there's going to be issues. Some expected, some not. I know what is entailed in shipping outboard motors in a crate.

It comes to me as no surprise what so ever that complaints exsist. That's regretable, but in the case of shipping used outboard motors, in a crate, not water tested on the boat, well, pay your money, take your chances.
Why doe's someone do that?
I guess to save money?

Ok, it appears that both parties have their arguement as to the facts. Nothing so unusual about that. Hopefully all will be resolved as painless as possible, as fast as possible. It's a shame it's happened at all. But, if a company chooses to be in the used outboard motor business, better get used to complaints, your gonna have them. That's why I will not sell used to anyone without the product being inspected, hopefully water tested, with them or their rep, signed off. A deposit, clearly stated "refundable" subject to inspection, and sea trial. I dont do it any other way, new, used, demo, repo, I dont care.

I agree with you and my definition of Remanufactured is just that completely rebuilt. Not patched

[Bly]

Originally Posted by Chet88

A1 Just go get the motor you sold the lady and refund her money. Get the other guys F225 running. At least this would be a step in the right direction in repairing your damaged reputation.

He will never change. He always has an excuse. Usually shipping or send it back and I will make good? He claims he uses better parts and processes then original but according to most !!! the engine they get back still has the original inferior parts in them. Thanks for THT, they may be taking his advertising dollars but they are not censoring these threads. Let the buyer beware and do some research. everyone makes a mistake here or there but this guy mike is a trainwreck I wonder what the next name will be for his new and same company?

[Airbus A320]

Update #3 7/9/10

Email received that motor was complete and ready to ship.


Was informed that there was a crack in the Exhaust Manifold Plate / Adapter that was the culprit.

I am being billed $317 for the part and $17 for shipping.

They also stated that they replcaced the rod and main bearings and all gaskets and seals at no cost.

I feel that they should have caught this initially and I have reservations as to the necessity to have to pay additional $$ after already paying $5500 for the reman

BUT A1 has agreed to pay my shop 4 hours of labor to derig, crate, and rerig motor as well as shipping both ways via fedex. If they make good on that i dont have any problem paying for the exhaust manifold as the only casuality will be an additional 3 weeks lost of the season.

[Pamelalee]

Well Airbus it is great to hear that he contacted you about your motor. I have just recently faxed him again this morning with no response. Also it is strange that I seen him pop up here to read posts, but does not have time to respond to all the endless communications I have sent. I hope all turns out well for you.

[mike carrigan]

Originally Posted by davidkuhlmann

I agree with you and my definition of Remanufactured is just that completely rebuilt. Not patched

David,
Many years ago there was alot of money to be made, ALOT OF MONEY, shipping some brands of outboard motors, new, in the box, at about dealer cost, plus freight. The annual rebate from the engine manufacturer when volume levels were reached, was very rewarding. The motors carried the full manufacturers warranties no matter where they were shipped domestically. So, a guy in California could buy a motor in a box from a dealer in Miami and have the full warranty on the outboard from the engine manufacturer, at his local dealers shop. Now, to make all of this work profitably, it would be required for a dealer to warehouse perhaps a seven figure outboard motor inventory, and be damn sure he was going to sell and ship them. I knew some dealers that did so and made a whole bunch of money doing it until the engine manufacturers discontined the program. Good deal for the buyer, good deal for the dealer who sold the motor. A Win-win for all concerned.
My opinion, thought must be given as to the end user and warranty, and warranty service. With the above mentioned, no sweat, new motor, full manufacturers warranty, no matter where so long as it was US Of A.
The key words here, in my opinion, "warranty" and "local".
New, reman, used, no matter, the key words, to me, are still pretty important.
Just my thoughts and the world I live in.
I think the problems go far more to the logistics involved than the honesty of the dealership. I truly do not believe there's an honesty or integrity issue here. In my view the potential problems, the for certain problems, are quite clear from the get go and there is no question as to if there are going to be problems, you can count on them. I can very clearly see the nightmare in dealing with them, both the dealer and the customer.
I do not think there's an honesty issue here. Logistics, tempers, hassles, maybe some abusive language, perhaps both sides? Yeah, for certain. Honesty? No, I dont see it that way.

[blkmtrfan]

Airbus, I can't believe that you were charged anything extra, like you said, you bought what you thought was a total reman, I fail to understand why a cracked adapter is in any way your responsibility when you bought, what you were told would be, a remanufactured powerhead.

Just a couple more cents to a situation that doesn't make any sense.

I feel sorry to all the people who have been ripped off by this company, it has been over 3 years ago that their bad practices were shown on www.screamandfly.com I was shocked to see that they acutally had a forum here on THT