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Random Quote: The only thing constant is change ...
Since the new forum is in need of threads, this should get us started.....
I just read the press release on the new Verado engines from Mercury. All I have to say is buyer beware!!!!
They have gone to a 2.6 litre block and supercharged it to obtain horsepower ratings from 200-275. I worked for about a year at one of the country's most respected racing engine shops and I learned one thing for certain. Less cubic engines + more horsepower = less reliability and or longevity. The fact that the same block is being used for all the engines from 200hp-275hp means they are gaining the additional horsepower by using more boost and more fuel along with bigger valves and camshafts. I wish Mercury the very best on these engines but asking smaller engines to provide more horsepower never equals longevity. If they can perfect this technology it will leave Yamaha far behind. If this these very complex, supercharged engines prove unreliable (which seems almost inevitable to some extent), then this could be the end of Mercury. I was faced with the decision last year when shopping for an F250 diesel whether to go with the new 6.0 or stay with the tried and true 7.3 engine. I called my friend Ray who used to design and build engines for several NHRA Pro Stock teams and several Nascar truck teams to ask what he thought about the new Ford diesels.(this guy is one sharp cookie) His opinion was that the 6.0 was new and untried and would probably be plagued with problems. (I can assure he was right about that). Ford had also reduced the weight of the engine by 500lbs in one year. His comment was that a 7.3 Ford diesel weighed exactly what it should weigh and that an engine block that was 500lbs lighter would probably have problems when used for hauling heavy loads regularly. He reminded me that the 7.3 diesels are de-tuned in ambulances and other commercial vehicle to add longevity to the engines. "The more you ask an engine to do, the less tiime it is going to survive"
These new mercury engines remind very much of that story. There are no free lunches when it comes to horspower. Asking a smaller engine to produce more power will inevitably affect longevity and could effect reliability. I really wish Mercury the best because I have much disdain for Yamaha and would love to see someone, anyone put them in the dust.....good luck to all that are awaiting these engines. I will predict that they will either be nearly flawless or plagued with problems, just seems to be the way these types of things always go........TBG
Let the assault begin.....
I could not agree more. I have had numerous merc motors from 15 hp to 225 hp. After visiting the Miami boat show and looking at each of the Merc, Yamaha and Sukuki 4-stroke I would lean towards the Suzuki for a lighter engine that is making the same power w/o a supercharger. The blower has got to put more wear and tear on the bottom of the moter.
Sounds like a Pro Yama Pop Man. If you guys were not so brain washed you would look at inventor of technology along with a inovator in a field that would not exist with out Mercury. :o :) Where was Yamaha 40+ years ago. can anybody say nowhere!
Technology and life moves on - get over it - get a life.
Mercury Marine - Number 1 on the water - number 1 in the courts - number 1 in technology, number 1 in lean mean traight street grunt sex appeal.
You can have a saki burners - Mercury marine (Brunswick Corp) has served me well for a lifetime so far - and I aint about to change - remember Pearl Harbour!
Mercury has served me well in the past, but I have my doubts about the Verado. Only time will tell; let's have this conversation again after a year or two has gone by.
Oh, and Reel Rascals--it can be spelled with a "u", so Trouty is right.
I don't have a problem with the new Merc technology... I think innovation is good. I'm a bit suprised at the weight though.
I have friends who have repowered, and jumped on the "I've got to have a 4-stroke" bandwagon... The are happy with their new quiet motors, but all you have to do is look at their waterline to see that all is not perfect in this new world.
When you have to repaint your bottom because your stern now sits deeper in the water, and you have water flooding your floor due to submerged scuppers, a line has been crossed somewhere.
I can't honestly say a bad thing about any of the major brands of outboards out there today. Every manufacturer had issues with its DFI technology until the bugs were squashed and the systems refined. Whatever brand you select, you're going to get a good one these days.
The thing that concerns me is the weight issue, especially when repowering older hulls.
YMMV
I will predict that they will either be nearly flawless or plagued with problems
TBG,
Wow...what a prediction....You really put yourself out on a limb. Flawless or plagued??? Live on the edge, make a real prediction since you do have the background in engine design. With all due respect, I think if Merc choose to invest one billion dollars, and six years of R/D they know a little more about their product that you and I do, especially since it was introduced to the public only two weeks ago.
BS, BS, BS. Once again a mindless, say nothing post from TBG. Engine manufacturers always make different horsepower versions of the same block. Inboard, I/O and outboards; gas and diesel.
Take Mercury or Volvo I/O's, 350 CI in standard and MAG versions, same with the 454, and now 496. Are the high HP versions less reliable? No. If I dog a standard version and baby a Mag, the standard will blow long before the Mag.
How about outboards, same block for 90-130 HP versions. Are the 130's less reliable? No.
And if I use boost to gain horsepower, I sacrifice reliability - somebody better tell the diesel guys!
And as far as high horsepower from a low cubic inch motor being unreliable, wait until Honda, Nissan, and Toyota get wind of this! They'll trash their Formula 1 programs and hire TBG as an engine consultant. Give me a friggin' break
Not a brand loyalist by any strech but I must agree.
Where did TBG get his engineering degrees. He is a good writer of his opinions. I've been around some pretty smart people in my days from 1979 till now. I still happen to think highly of the earlier ones I've met. That doesn't mean that they can walk on water. Merc ain't perfect. Yami ain't either. None of them are. I hope they make it work to bring us to the next level. Somebody has to step up.
You don't have to tell the diesel guys that when you use boost to gain horsepower, you lose reliability, we already know it. I can assure you that there is a strong correlation between how much output you get out of a basic powerplant and its expected life. As discussed in a thread last week, a 6-71 N Detroit (.43 hp/ci) is a 5-10 k hr engine, while a 6-71 TIB (1.13 hp/ci) is a 1,500 hr engine. Temperatures and pressures go up dramatically, cooling and lubrication systems are pushed to their limits, room for error is nil. And a 3 liter, 18,000 rpm F1 engine is designed to last 200 miles, while the 3 liter, 6,000 rpm engine in a Camry will last over 150k.
to play devils advocate I think a lot also has to do with what kind of motor the standard 2.6L block is. If it wasn't reliable before it won't be w/ more horses. If in original form it is a good motor then it may be okay.
Look at the GM 350 ci engine. Has been around for years and is arguably one of the 10 best engines of all time. In '96 they "vortec'd" the engine and got 250hp out of it (before vortec it was a TBI 200hp engine). I think you will still find most people claim the vortec 350 is a great engine. Unfortunately from what I understand GM engineers felt that 250hp was about the max they could get out of the engine and for that reason went to the MPI 5.3L in new body style vehicles
Granted I have had some problems with my Vortec, but none were related to the horsepower increase. Rather my problems are due to some knucklehead deciding to put an aluminum intake manifold on a cast iron block.
If you have doubts then wait a year. There are plenty of people who have to have the "latest and greatest." Let them be the lab rats.
I guess? I would assume the orginal poster was trying to say that the 200-225 HP might be more reliable than the 250-275 HP. Maybe so, time will tell. I have set on my hands for over a year now trying to decide on a repower to replace my 1989 200 HP on my Seacraft23 WA w/scuppers. No problem now with water, guess I will need to put in an extra 400#s lead or sand bags and see what happens.
The previous poster mentioned the Vortec, yeah! I had toubles with my late run 99 Silverado, 11000, motor rebuild, 15000 new engine, seems to fixed the problem as troubles went away and I now have about 20000 on the new engine. I also had a drive shaft that was out of balance and (2) two out of 4 tires that were out of round.
I also had troubles with my new Merc 200hp in 1989, put a rod through the block, put on a new powerhead, thanks to after market insurance, as Mercury told me since the engine was 13 months old it was not thier concern. Fortuniatly, the new power head has been flawless. I guess my question is, why does it seem to always take (2) two shots to get things right?
I guess I will sit a lot longer to see how the engine turns out, or least as long as my 200 Merc is running good.
Coast: No, not BS and actually quite a good post by TBG - your analogies don't equate. For example, you can't compare the strength and longivity of a turbodiesel with a small supercharged gas engine as the inherent strength of the diesel will in 95% of the cases allow it to live more hours than the supercharged gas engine. And no, Nissan, and Toyota will not trash their Formula 1 program, but you forgot to mention that they do trash their engines after each race.
Shag: Want to repower? You won't be able to with one of Mercury's new Vedado engines. If you want one (or twins) you'll have to purchase a new boat as for the first year at least they will only be available on new boat applications.
Mercury Verado.......run Forest, run........
