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Old 02-10-2010, 12:07 PM
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Question NADA vs asking price vs sale price

I am in the process of both potentially buying and selling a boat...For selling my boat I have used NADA (as well as boattrader) as a guide to price my boat. Ultimatly deciding to go a bit under everything both for a quick sale. I have recieved a number of calls and people looking- which confirms to me that I am at least in ball park.

On the buying side things seem to be totally different - a quick example I am looking at 2002-2005 Grady 265 Express and Edgewater 265Ex. I know these are sought after boats, but I have been watching a couple that seem to be sitting. They are priced anywhere from $15k-$22k over NADA retail. Well I am not sure if I will be paying cash or financing yet- in talking to at least one lender they want 10%-20% equity off of NADA values. Good, bad or indifferent if a lender beleives in NADA that strongly, it makes me think that have reason. So I am really hesitant to offer anything above NADA retail. The Edgewater I have an eye on has a NADA retail of $58k- they just reduced it from $89k to $79k....

I understand that fair market value is what I am willing to pay, but crap pricing seems to be all over the map. Anybody have suggestions as to an accurate guide? I was going to offer the $60k, but the broker basically laughed at me.

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Old 02-10-2010, 12:57 PM
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There are several threads such as this one floating around right now...seems like the sellers are not as desperate to get their rigs sold and NADA isn't being used by them. The banks and credit unions, however are sticking by those values.
Some have mentioned that the northeast boats seem to hold prices higher than down here in Florida. Lots of boats for sale here and good competition. Our local craigslist has a lot of boats for sale, but the higher end, quality boats don't always end up on there.
I don't think any offer would be considered offensive. You want a boat and they want to sell one. You have to start somewhere...
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:01 PM
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I predict this thread will go 10 pages.
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:01 PM
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here we go again.......when is book value not the actual value? when you are buying......I ran into the same situation a few years back when buying a used Grady 232, purchase price was about 10K over NADA. My bank would only use NADA values, I ended up putting almost 40% down rather than battle the bank.....
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:05 PM
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I bet there will be 3 pages of "not again!"....
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:06 PM
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I predict this thread will go 10 pages.


10 pages of IRRELEVANT replies?
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:59 PM
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I just sold my Boston Whaler 210 Outrage for $5500 over NADA retail. I had multiple buyers lined up to buy it if the deal fell apart. Right now it's off season in my area, if I waited a couple more months I could have easily got another couple of grand out of it. The banks have little control over the market, what they lend has nothing to do with the value. They can prevent certain buyers from buying if they can't come up with the down payment. They are using NADA so the buyers can be in somewhat of an equity position if they have to take the boat back and auction it off. The first thing that doesn't get paid if a person runs into financial woes are the toys, the banks know this all too well.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:40 AM
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I just sold my Boston Whaler 210 Outrage for $5500 over NADA retail. I had multiple buyers lined up to buy it if the deal fell apart. Right now it's off season in my area, if I waited a couple more months I could have easily got another couple of grand out of it. The banks have little control over the market, what they lend has nothing to do with the value. They can prevent certain buyers from buying if they can't come up with the down payment. They are using NADA so the buyers can be in somewhat of an equity position if they have to take the boat back and auction it off. The first thing that doesn't get paid if a person runs into financial woes are the toys, the banks know this all too well.
I guess there is a little disconnect there- at least in my case it is not a question just upping the down payment- I could actually just pay cash. But I do have a few opportunities to make more cash, with that cash. I would really disagree with the statement "Banks have little control over the market". I would agree the value is what the market will bear, but no/difficult financing changes the market. There is always someone that will pay more, it is just a function of waiting it out. Your a great example of that.
FWIW - took me just a few days to get my boat under agreement, just need to get through a compression test and I am sold.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:46 AM
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IF you can pay cash you should be able to withstand a few laughs from brokers. OFFER LOW.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:51 AM
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Soldboats.com lists actual transaction details, but there is a substantial subscription fee involved. I usually have accessed the data through a boat broker or marine surveyor. After having a 32 ft. Regal sit on the market for 18 months after a "bad" broker overpriced it based upon listing prices on Yachtworld, I'm a big believer in using actual transaction pricing versus listing prices.

By the way, in the real world I appraise and sell privately-held businesses.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:59 AM
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Right now NADA definitely benefits the buyer. This is the first year in my 18 years of being in the marine industry that I've seen NADA consider the state of our marine industry (i.e. excessive inventories, repo's, etc) when determining boat values and that has definitely lowered them.

BoatTrader.com is not a huge value when trying to determine what a boat's worth. The pricing you see on there is what it's worth to the seller. In many cases, the pricing you see reflects what the seller needs to payoff the boat and is substantially more than what the boat is worth.

Consider the above, in addition to phone calls to dealers/brokers, other online sources, local papers, etc. and most importantly your budget and you'll then understand what any boat is worth. Good luck.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:59 PM
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NADA vs asking price vs sale price

NADA: 'Book' value, may or may not reflect actual selling prices in your area, financial institutions may or may not lend anywhere close to this value.

Asking price: The 'wish' price a seller has assigned, may or may not be firm, may or may not correlate with NADA (or any other).

Selling price: What a willing seller has agreed to accept from a willing buyer. May or may not have any correlation to NADA or 'asking'.


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Old 02-12-2010, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljk View Post
Soldboats.com lists actual transaction details, but there is a substantial subscription fee involved. I usually have accessed the data through a boat broker or marine surveyor. After having a 32 ft. Regal sit on the market for 18 months after a "bad" broker overpriced it based upon listing prices on Yachtworld, I'm a big believer in using actual transaction pricing versus listing prices.

By the way, in the real world I appraise and sell privately-held businesses.
You need to be careful using soldboats.com because the information is provided to them by the listing brokers, who often have incentives to lie about the selling price. I know for a fact that a boat I purchased was listed on soldboats.com for substantially more than I paid for it.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:08 AM
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Be firm on your boat price when selling your rig, as you will have to pay greedy brokers later on.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:43 AM
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NADA: Means you get "nada" in return if you're a seller in today's market.

BTW, the fact that the Whaler Outrage sold for so much over should be a lesson to all the "Whaler haters" in this forum. That brand holds it's value like nothing else -- even in this crap economy.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:50 AM
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Put the offers out there - directly to the sellers if at all possible. The broker knows what he/she has to move that boat for to take their cut... I guess I have to wonder what the incentive is for the broker to pass lower offers along? I'd make it clear to the seller that you are ready to buy the right boat for the right price right now and that you have the cash / financing all lined up. Most importantly, stress that you have found more than one boat that suits your needs just fine and you'll be making offers until a deal is struck - if they want to take a month to think it over ... fine... but my offer for this boat is good until tomorrow afternoon - when I'm looking at another nice boat. There sure seem to be a LOT more boats out there right now than potential buyers in that price range.... I'd be out there and active.... JMHO.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:46 AM
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It seems most folks price thier boats (homes too) by looking around and seeing what everybody else is asking. This method works well if the other sellers are pragmatic and understand the markets well.

Actual selling price is often very different..
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:16 AM
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I have used boattrader.com as my #1 valuation guide over the years. The way I establish a price is to get an average of all the prices within a given age and model bracket. If I need to toss the highest and lowest for good reasons, I do it. I want to get an average market price for similar boats.

Then I deduct 25% from the average price and see how close that gets to the lowest priced boat that isn't junk/salvage/zillion hours. If the 25% deduct is close to the lowest price, then I price my boat at or within 2 of the lowest price. Most people opt for the Low to High price when pulling boats, so I want to be one of the very first they see.

In 2009 I sold 9 boats under 30'. Average time on the market was 11 days.

Using anglersedgemarine.com to broker the listings was effective. Calls I got came from a number of different ad venues; not just boattrader.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:13 AM
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NADA only works when you know how to use it correctly. I have found that most retail buyers do a quick book out and usually forget or neglect to add up ALL the options. If your booking out a 29'CC of any kind, there can be a 30,000 spread based on options, electronics, windlass, radar and the list keeps going...on the trailer no one seems to add the 15% for aluminum or add for brakes. Lets not forget market value, which can be more or less depnding on brand, model, motor brand. With that said, Bamaboy has a good point, get a spread of what the boat is selling for, and if the one you are looking at is in the spread, probubly priced right! Asking price is allways based on NADA, selling price is what I can get for it!
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:54 AM
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People tell me its a buyer's market but I am not seeing it. Everyone is asking 20-25% above average NADA retail which strikes me as just crazy. I recently had a survey done on a boat and the estimate made NADA look right on target. The boat, priced well above retail turned out to have structural problems. The surveyor said there are plenty of deals below NADA available on pristine boats. I am just not looking in the right place I guess. Everything looks way overpriced on Boattrader and craigslist. If I have to pay above NADA avg retail for an average boat then I am just going to have to go without a boat. I am not paying these ridiculous asking prices.
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