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Let me start by saying that this is absolutely a true story told to me by the captain and boat owner first hand. This is not hearsay.
A friend of mine bought a brand new 2009 Carolina Classic 25 a few months back. He is an avid fisherman and was a regular client on the Sport fish that I mate on. He made several trips on the boat breaking it in and getting to know the boat and the electronics. After a bunch of hours and his confidence built up he was ready for a trip a bit further off shore. It was the Mako Mania tournament this past Summer and the Resor Wreck was his intended destination. He had the boat loaded with 3 other fisherman including his son as well as plenty of food, ice, bait etc. they were about 25 miles out when the boat began to feel a bit sluggish. Those of you that fished that tournament will remember that the morning ride out was a little brisk with 2-4 footers maybe some bigger ones mixed in and a 10-15 kt wind. He slowed the boat down a bit and it immediately fell off of plane and felt really weird and sat unusually low in the water. He had everyone move from the helm area to the cockpit and opened up the engine hatch. He was greeted with steam in the face and an engine room half under water. They began scanning looking for the source of the water intrusion when they realized the exhaust elbow had become dislodged from the exhaust pipe and the engine raw water pump filling the boat with water. They reacted quickly and killed the 315 HP Yanmar diesel and the bilge pumps began to make headway. So they thought...... Now with the weight of the 4 of them in the cockpit and the additional water weight on-board, water was rushing in the exhaust from the stern and backfilling the boat! The captain tried to pull the elbow back on and severely burned his arm on the scalding engine doing so. They managed to slow the water coming in from the rear by temporally clogging the exhaust tube, allowing the bilge pumps to do their work, while the engine cooled some. A period of time went by and two of the other guys managed to muscle the elbow back on the boat and they tightened the clamps. It was at that time that they realized that although the elbow had double hose clamps, the elbow only slid on to the pipe about 1/2 inch rendering the second clamp useless! they eventually made it back to the dock with a salt and soot filled 2009 engine room! The captain went and purchased the type of heavy duty clamp that you could really tighten with a socket wrench instead of the typical SS hose clamps thinking that would solve his problem. well on a test run it failed again, once again! This time they were prepared and managed to "engineer" it enough to get back to the dock. They called Carolina Classic and they advised him to call a local Yanmar mechanic. The yanmar guys eventually showed up and "muscled" the elbow on a little further and double clamped it once again.........
Now let me just say that I am in know way bashing Carolinas. A 35 Classic is on my short list in the next few years when I move up. But I have to ask, is this acceptable? What kind of quality control is going on there right now. With the boating economy the way it is I am guessing the folks at CC are building fewer boats that years gone by? Wouldn't they have more time checking the little things? Personally I don't think the exhaust elbow connection is a little thing! Is it they are cutting costs and let go the expensive experienced builders and back filling with lower paid less experienced laborers?
Didn't Carolina have a problem a few years back with motors hydro-locking from water intrusion back up the exhaust into the engines? (Gas engines I know, but still) Shouldn't they have some type of riser or reverse trap on the exhaust that would prevent this?
This was a downright scary situation that most certainly could have been prevented. I can't help but to think of the guys that lost their lives a little while back delivering that new Carolina when that one went down.
Perhaps the engine torque contributed to the hose being pulled off?...how about a high water alarm, simple to rig....how about replacing the hose with the blue stuff....very flexible and clamps down easily, withstands higher temps....is this carolina classics' problem or yanmar?...also consider installing a tee in the incoming water inlet that you can use to dewater the bilge in a hurry....close the engine thru-hull and open the one that tees into it and run the engine....many larger boats have that capability....saved my A$% once on a 50 ft'er
Carolina Classis is a great hull for sure but this has happened more than once and you think they would learn from it and yes this is a CC issue because all components in a "quality" product such as CC should be up to their standard so they should be called out on this site like every other manufacturer that has an issue.Certain brands like CC get a pass on boating forums so their is no pressure to improve QC,Regulator scuppers causing sinkings at the dock comes to mind when I think about this deal.These manufacturers ask alot of money for their product so we should demand the best from them.-Pat L
I've done a ton of inboard installs, almost all Yanmar, from 280s up to 440s, all with 6" exhaust hose. The hose usually goes on (with a little silicone spray help) about 2"-3" with little effort (little is a relative term!). They are then secured with T-bolt exhaust hose clamps, the type that have a 1/4-20 nut for tightening.
The usual reason for a minimal length of hose on an elbow, exhaust coupling, or exhaust port is that the hose was cut too short, and the installer didn't want to waste it, or piss the boss off. Hell, if you miscalculate, save the piece of hose for another install where it will fit, and cut a new one!
Perhaps the engine torque contributed to the hose being pulled off?...how about a high water alarm, simple to rig....how about replacing the hose with the blue stuff....very flexible and clamps down easily, withstands higher temps....is this carolina classics' problem or yanmar?...also consider installing a tee in the incoming water inlet that you can use to dewater the bilge in a hurry....close the engine thru-hull and open the one that tees into it and run the engine....many larger boats have that capability....saved my A$% once on a 50 ft'er
The t idea would not have helped in this case. the elbow was off. The water would have just been pulled from the bilge and put back into the bilge through the open elbow. Anyway, why would the owner put the exhaust hose back on with a better clamp when they got back to the dock?. How about get the right length hose and install it right.
I had an almost identical problem coming back form the Hudson Canyon many years ago on a Phoenix I owned with Volvo diesels - and it was the connection between the cast aluminum exhaust elbow and the rubber hose downflow therefrom.
I did have a high water alarm (floatswitch to a klaxton horn) but it was INOP and I was goign to get to it next weekend that I'm in port not fishing. Low placement of bilge pump annuciator lights caused them not to be looked at. Next thing you know my mate is pointing aft at black, then grey, then white smoke behind the boat. The turbo breathers would gulp in exhaust/bilge water, blow out the white steam, then bog down and push black exhaust out then grey as they spooled back up (must have been great on those hot turbochargers.) All engine monitoring instruments appeared normal and when I pulled the throttles back - bow went skyward and we settled DEEP in the water. The cockpit scuppers were flooding water in until I had the guys pack towels, sweatchirts and anything we had against them. I radioed a buddy who was ahead of me by about six miles - couldn't see him in the haze but had him on RADAR. He steamed back six miles and by then we were OK. He then wentthose six miles again. He was my dock neighbor and told me he only came back to mark the spot as a fish spot and to dive for my Internationals.
Scared men with five gallon buckets beats out all pumps. We never shut the engines off and I flipped the ball valve on the crash pumps I installed using the raw water engine pumps as auxiliiary bilge pumps. We got the water out, used a tuna bat and italian salad dressing to re-unite the fitting and made it home without incident.
Now, I ALWAYS check my high water alarm, just like the stall warning on an aircraft - it's part of my preflight before I leave the dock. These things happen.
Boats don't sink generally because one thing went wrong but usually due to a series of things gone wrong.
I do like The Hull Truth because we bash where the bashing is deserved (sometimes where it's not) but do not give passes no matter who the maker is.
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USCG Master 100GT
Last edited by Captain Nimrod; 02-07-2010 at 05:08 PM.
Perhaps the engine torque contributed to the hose being pulled off?...how about a high water alarm, simple to rig....how about replacing the hose with the blue stuff....very flexible and clamps down easily, withstands higher temps....is this carolina classics' problem or yanmar?...also consider installing a tee in the incoming water inlet that you can use to dewater the bilge in a hurry....close the engine thru-hull and open the one that tees into it and run the engine....many larger boats have that capability....saved my A$% once on a 50 ft'er
These are all good ideas but lets remember this was a brand new 100 thousand dollar boat!
IMHO.................someone needs to be held accountable!
These are all good ideas but lets remember this was a brand new 100 thousand dollar boat!
IMHO.................someone needs to be held accountable!
I have been through something similar with a new boat, actually two different problems, both just as dangerous, and they are still a problem after 3 years, your friends problem was an easy fix, and you right, CC should be held accountable, but to what degree?
I'm sure if he called them they would apologize, and probably send him a new hose and clamps, but the fact is thank God nobody was injured, and the problem is now fixed, or does your friend think CC owes him something?
I cannot think of any brand boat that does not have issues, i'm curious how CC responded to this issue, or if they responded.
Case in point: [not my boat]
I know someone that purchased a new 38 Henriques FB that claimed a certain cruise speed and WOT, the boat does as it was claimed, but somewhere between cruise and WOT the boat tailwalks just at or slighly over cruise, the twin 500 hp motors are clearly too much for the hull, should Henriques give this person the option money back for the extra horsepower [aprox $30,000] ?
And that 38 was a $500,000 boat.
Just so you know, I am not bashing Henriques, IMO Henriques is a excellent boat builder.
OMG.....another tragedy........what's that two or three in all the boats thy have built? Probably should all be recalled. And someone needs to be held accountable! lol
The bigger issues I see are: no highwater alarm? and, didn't anyone notice the bilge pump running constantly?
While no doubt there was a lapse of quality control at CC (damn humans doing the assembly), if there was as much water in the boat as said, imo operator inattention played a big part in how serious it got.
bottom line is that it's your life potentially on the line........you'd better double check all below water line connections on any new boat. Yes, the QC should be better than that, but errors happen. I've seen clamps on bilge pumps so tight that they crack the pump housing, on brand new boats of mine. I just always go through it all now. I sleep better at night that way.
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2009 Seacat 22' with 115 Suzukis
2010 Ameracat 27' with 150 Suzukis
OMG.....another tragedy........what's that two or three in all the boats thy have built? Probably should all be recalled. And someone needs to be held accountable! lol
How many sunk brand new boats and how many deaths would it take to impress you?
Are you really LOL?????? That in itself is a tradgedy!
The bigger issues I see are: no highwater alarm? and, didn't anyone notice the bilge pump running constantly?
While no doubt there was a lapse of quality control at CC (damn humans doing the assembly), if there was as much water in the boat as said, imo operator inattention played a big part in how serious it got.
Like I said it was a brand new boat and to be honest I do not know if there was a high water alarm or not. What I do no was that there was no horn or light to let them be aware that the bilge pump was running.
And no they did not know the bilge pump was running but in all fairness a 315 Yanmar pumping seawater directly into the bilge will fill the boat faster than you think. When we winterize another friends boat, we use the crash pumps and it sucks up 5 gallons of antifreeze in about 5 seconds! Do the math.........You could put hundreds of gallons of water into a bilge in minutes..........
bottom line is that it's your life potentially on the line........you'd better double check all below water line connections on any new boat. Yes, the QC should be better than that, but errors happen. I've seen clamps on bilge pumps so tight that they crack the pump housing, on brand new boats of mine. I just always go through it all now. I sleep better at night that way.
In normal operating conditions, this connection was 2 feet above the waterline........and it was double clamped.......
ANY mechanic who cares insures that his hoses are attached well and there is enough clamping surface, period. CC must have had inexperienced or careless people working that day.
Why the post now it happened last year whats the motivation to post now? Also there is a light on the dash that shows the bilge pump running didn't the capt see it?
That is a liability people do not often think of when comparing boats with I/Os or inboards to outboard powered boats. Something to think about.
Oh c'mon now. How many stories have we seen where OB's have met a similar fate due to a live well hose failure or some other combination of thru-hull water-fed failure?
High water alarms save lives and property. It's the cheapest insurance you can have.
But it doesn't excuse a near sinking because someone screwed up a hose clamp.
In any event, OB's don't make your boats stay above water any better than an inboard. A $2.75 part can be mis-installed on either.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
Almost another tragedy on a Carolina Clasic
