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HDLE, I don't know how the 28 is but I had purschased a new 30ZF with a similar setup except my scuppers were not underwater. My boat almost sank 3 times and the last time I got a salvage bill. The issue with my boat was it would start taking water when slow trolling or when at anchor. Theproblem ended up being the scuppers. The water would start coming in through the scuppers in to the deck. You could not see the water coming in because it would not be on the deck but on the recessed track. The water would then make its way into the removable fish box and into the bilge. The 2 bilge pumps would not be able to keep up and the boat would start to sink. I had to fight with Donzi to get them to fix it. They replaced the scuppers and I don't recall what they used and they put a high water alarm. I was so upset that I sold the boat for a loss. I was not pleased at how Donzi handled it and the trouble I had to get them to fix it.
That is exactly my design and what I am concerned about. The water can run into the recessed track into the fish box and into the bilge without anyone knowing. I have already decided to install the extra bilge pump and a highwater alarm. What Donzi replaced the scuppers with is what I want to know. It seems to me that some kind of flapper, duckbill, or ping pong ball is what is needed. Unfortunatly I can not take it to Donzi I'm in Tx. I have talked to Chuck about a couple of other things prior to purchase and afterwards- you would think something this important the info would be voluntered.
I'm not an engineer.
Knowing Chuck for well over thirty five years, I have 100% faith in his opinion.
All I've read here are "what if", imaginary, maybe, problems that have not exsisted.
Thus, If there exsists any manufacturer that hold a 100% consumer answer issue to problems that dont exsist, have not yet exsisted, I have to wonder what problem actually doe's exsist?
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong?
HDLE, I dealt with a VP at Donzi but I read he had passed away in a car accident. It has been about 8 or 9 years since I sold the boat. I was so upset with the whole thing that when I got the boat back I put it up for sale and sold it two weeks later to the first person that looked at it. I know that it was not on the outside of the hull, what they did was on the inside and I believe it was a ping pong but I am not 100 percent sure. When the boat went back to Donzi there was a big list of things they did because of the damage that happened. They wanted my insurance to cover the damages and I refused and told them it was there design that caused the damage and after getting my lawyer involved and went back and forth with Donzi they took the boat back. My insurance did pay around 13K in salvage bill. Put the high water alarm and keep an eye, in my case when the waves slapped the side of the boat was when the water would come in, when at the dock or in the inter coastal I had no issues.
FF,
We use the same cockpit drain/hose/thru hull set up as Donzi, as well as the majority of other builders out there. It is a proven setup, as I stated in my earlier post.
On occasion, additional stern weight, from many different forms, can present problems with water ingress from the cockpit drain hoses. This most often happens when a builder, whether it be Donzi, Wellcraft, Hydra-Sports, or others, try to get as much cockpit depth as possible, yet still maintain a "self-bailing" cockpit. It is a very fine edge we, and others, walk when it comes to this "feature". Typically called for because it is what the boat buying public wants...maximum cockpit depth, yet maintaining the "self-bailing" cockpit.
Back in my Wellcraft/AS days, my old friend Bill Vanick, truly believed water flowed UPHILL, as the AS 23 Cat (look it up) had the t/hulls above the cockpit drains! This was back in '98. And he came to us from Chris Craft!
So, unless you, FF, have actually built and designed boats for a living, I would give the Donzi/Proline/every-other-builder thing a rest. Now if you HAVE built/designed boats for a living, please share with us...
Thanks seabob I will see about replacing the hoses. I have inspected them but was thinking replacing them would be prudent. A couple of challenges I have encountered
1.The hose going from the bait well to the t/hull is not accessible at the t/hull. 2. The hose attached to the forward most box in the bow is also not accessible. Should I put in 2 new access hatches to be able to change these hoses out?
And by the way, all of you, I think I handled the OPs question..
If others want to have a pissing contest, go elsewhere...
People on here want answers, not someone's problem with somebody else...
I'm not an engineer.
Knowing Chuck for well over thirty five years, I have 100% faith in his opinion.
All I've read here are "what if", imaginary, maybe, problems that have not exsisted.
Thus, If there exsists any manufacturer that hold a 100% consumer answer issue to problems that dont exsist, have not yet exsisted, I have to wonder what problem actually doe's exsist?
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong?
Mike, so are you trying to say my problem did not exist on my 30ZF??? My boat had a serious design issue and I am sure you can look it up my boat was at the factory for a long time getting fixed.
I hear what you are saying Mike. Before you posted last I revised my last post. However, Bamboozle described to a T his real life experience and exactly what my fear is. It seems to me that the solution is changing the drains to the kind with some kind stop from outside watercomingin.It will not be easy though, the starboard drain is very hard to get to. For the record Chuck was helpful all 3 times I spoke with him and I trust his opinion. I have not asked him about this yet.
And by the way, all of you, I think I handled the OPs question..
If others want to have a pissing contest, go elsewhere...
People on here want answers, not someone's problem with somebody else...
Thanks Bob you are right I don't want to go chasing rabbits only get my boat which I love as safe as I possibly can. Everyday I look things over, stick my head in hatches, kick the tires and whatever as to familiarize my self with each and every system on this boat. When I go out like many people I am carring precious cargo.
Thanks Bob you are right I don't want to go chasing rabbits only get my boat which I love as safe as I possibly can. Everyday I look things over, stick my head in hatches, kick the tires and whatever as to familiarize my self with each and every system on this boat. When I go out like many people I am carring precious cargo.
hdle,
Check out this little gizmo from T-H Marine:
In-Line scupper. They designed it because a LOT of boat builders have the same issue you do.
FF,
We use the same cockpit drain/hose/thru hull set up as Donzi, as well as the majority of other builders out there. It is a proven setup, as I stated in my earlier post.
On occasion, additional stern weight, from many different forms, can present problems with water ingress from the cockpit drain hoses. This most often happens when a builder, whether it be Donzi, Wellcraft, Hydra-Sports, or others, try to get as much cockpit depth as possible, yet still maintain a "self-bailing" cockpit. It is a very fine edge we, and others, walk when it comes to this "feature". Typically called for because it is what the boat buying public wants...maximum cockpit depth, yet maintaining the "self-bailing" cockpit.
Back in my Wellcraft/AS days, my old friend Bill Vanick, truly believed water flowed UPHILL, as the AS 23 Cat (look it up) had the t/hulls above the cockpit drains! This was back in '98. And he came to us from Chris Craft!
So, unless you, FF, have actually built and designed boats for a living, I would give the Donzi/Proline/every-other-builder thing a rest. Now if you HAVE built/designed boats for a living, please share with us...
I don't know if Donzi changed the way they did things from back in 2000 - 2001 but my boat had a small hose with no loop. My scuppers were not under water they were about 1' over the water line with the boat fully loaded. The water came in when the waves slapped against the hull and happened when at anchor or trolling. My boat was on a wet slip and I never had issues with the boat at rest or while running. This issue was with a donzi 30ZF!! When the OP posted this it brings back bad memories, my boat was 1 minute from turning over if SeaTow had not reached my boat when they my radio did not work because my Donzi had the batteries aft and they were under water, I was lucky I carried a hand held VHF and my wife will never step foot on a Donzi.
I hear what you are saying Mike. Before you posted last I revised my last post. However, Bamboozle described to a T his real life experience and exactly what my fear is. It seems to me that the solution is changing the drains to the kind with some kind stop from outside watercomingin.It will not be easy though, the starboard drain is very hard to get to. For the record Chuck was helpful all 3 times I spoke with him and I trust his opinion. I have not asked him about this yet.
By all means, discuss your issues with with Chuck.
We're a very open company.
I know of no one more open and informative than Chuck.
Because, I'm not an engineer, I'm not an laminination engineer, Always I go to our people that are.
Chuck is as good as they come.
I asked him a question, about two weeks ago. When I asked him he troubled over his answer.
We, Chuck, our CFO, and our Boss, went back into the DONZI plant and tried to answer the question that was posed. The question went to some materials used.
That was two weeks a go that we discussed the issue.
Yesterday, just yesterday, Chuck called me with an explanation of the issue. I had forgotten all about our conversation. He did not.
If you recieve information having to do with PRO-LINE or DONZI, that information will be correct.
That is a 100% Given.
If you agree or dont agree, that is a seperate issue.
n
I don't know if Donzi changed the way they did things from back in 2000 - 2001 but my boat had a small hose with no loop. My scuppers were not under water they were about 1' over the water line with the boat fully loaded. The water came in when the waves slapped against the hull and happened when at anchor or trolling. My boat was on a wet slip and I never had issues with the boat at rest or while running. This issue was with a donzi 30ZF!!
Bam,
I find it kind of odd that your 30' Donzi had "small" hose for cockpit drains. Every boat I've ever built/engineered has has 1 1/2" drains, some 2". The Aquasport 23 Cat I alluded to earlier had (4) 2" cockpit drains.
It is apparent that an in-line scupper such as the one I just posted was not available to you back then, as it would have solved your problems.
Not to belittle things, but I had many problems back in '00-'01, which haven't been present for quite some time. I've gotten over them, if you know what I mean...
I hope your current vessel is serving you well. Any questions about her, feel free...
Mike, so are you trying to say my problem did not exist on my 30ZF??? My boat had a serious design issue and I am sure you can look it up my boat was at the factory for a long time getting fixed.
Bamboozle,
My apologies to you if you interpreted anything I've said to be directed at you, your issues, or the like. That was not my intent.
My office is at the DONZI plant, however, I'm not DONZI, I'm PRO-LINE.
I'll comment specifically on DONZI issues only when they might be related to PRO-LINE. We use some DONZI "crossover" hulls at PRO-LINE and are including two more, 32 and a 35, we hope completed by February. In some cases it could be an either/or question, thus in those cases only, I'll comment.
We employ both at DONZI and PRO-LINE extremely capable and experianced people in our customer service departments. My intent was to direct the question to one of those people, not to take issue with you.
Of course I was tempted to answer. I felt it prudent to direct the issue to Chuck who is far more qualified than I, and it's his job and area of authority.
SEABOB did, I think, an outstanding job of answering the questions and issues. He's also more qualified than I am, thus I'm quite happy to defer to him, Chuck, at DONZI, Jim or Faron at PRO-LINE.
All this weekend I'm hanging out with the Big Kahauna himself, our boss, who is one of the two best engineering and production people in the industry. I have no problem what so ever taking a backseat to him re any PRO-LINE issue.
The important thing is that any question, DONZI or PRO-LINE is answered. That doe's not mean there will be a 100% agreement as to the question and answer.
