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Hey dan...its old...don't turn this into a brand war...take your etec bashing elsewhere...no one is talking about them here...lets stay on topic!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHC-CPA
The E-tec’s supposed advantage was they were significantly lighter and had more torque than four stroke outboards. Now with Yamaha’s next generation of lighter V6 225 and 250 hp four strokes ( both weighing just 558 lbs ) the weight difference is only 34 lbs between them and the E-tec ( 524 lbs ). The difference is even less for Yamaha’s new V6 300 hp vs the 300 hp E-tec ( 528 lbs ) at just 30 lbs – insignificant even for flats boats and older two stroke powered boats. And with Yamaha’s new V6 engines now having much larger displacements at 254 cu. inches, they’ll have greater torque too so that eliminates that argument as well.
Even Yamaha’s current four strokes already get much better fuel economy than the gas hog E-tec 250’s, I know I owned a pair, and seeing how Yamaha made better fuel economy a priority with their next gen that is sure to increase significantly as well. Combine this large savings in fuel with no more of Evinrude’s horribly expensive xd100 two stroke oil ( and most likely higher prices for gas and oil coming next year ) and it will cost MUCH more to run an E-tec. With the E-tec’s weight and torque advantages totally gone they just don’t offer any advantages anymore.
Mercury’s Verado has proven itself as having a BMW level of refinement and quality in the outboard world, Yamaha has always had a reputation for reliability, and Suzuki has established itself as the best value in an outboard engine. Collectively Mercury, Yamaha, and Suzuki have out engineered, out marketed, and overall just outsmarted Evinrude. Compared to the huge improvements in both Mercury and now Yamaha’s next generation four strokes the E-tec looks like an 8 bit Apple II computer vs a state of the art Dell with Windows 7.
With several boat manufacturers recently having gone out of business I’m looking for one of the outboard manufactures to follow and the company with the weakest product line is now Evinrude. I had a long discussion with the sales manager of a large outboard engine Superstore in Virginia and he told me their E-tec sales are “a joke” compared to four strokes. And just this month the VP and General Manager of Evinrude, Roch Lambert, quit and left the company - he may very well know the end is near for them.
There are sure to be many boat tests coming in the near future on Yamaha’s next Generation V6’s and the proof will be there for all to see.
Hey dan...its old...don't turn this into a brand war...take your etec bashing elsewhere...no one is talking about them here...lets stay on topic!!
Yup, it's old.....I wish Yamaha success with their new engines,...it will be interesting to see how they compare with the verado and the smaller zukes.....Verado took the straight 6, supercharger route.....cool, but heavy.....I don't think I'd sign up for the first ones though....again, I don't think this is the death nail to any engine manufacturer out there....they each have their own advantages....the death nail will be if cap and trade passes the senate....then boating will take a back seat to everything, and the largest marine marketplace in the world will dry up......it won't matter what you run..!!!!!!!!!
JHC-CPA: You need to develop a positive attitude, instead of bashing. I think it's great that Yamaha has improved their engines - it's good for boaters and the industry. I doubt the other brands will roll-over and die, instead they will improve their product. And I doubt anyone with a good, existing motor will now dump it over the side.
i found the performance bulletins if anyone wants to see......looks like around 28gph at WOT for the 2 boats they have listed with F300 power. A Skeeter ZX24 V and a Key West 2300 SS .
i found the performance bulletins if anyone wants to see......looks like around 28gph at WOT for the 2 boats they have listed with F300 power. A Skeeter ZX24 V and a Key West 2300 SS .
I just spoke to my local Yama Dealer - the price quoted was 20K and delivery would be best case April probably May - this is for the 300. The engines look really sweet and if they prove to be reliable may be the the last nail in the BRP Evinrude E-Tec 200-300 engines. I suspect you will be seeing some pricing actions from BRP as these babies roll-out.
One thing y'all have to remember is that the new Yamahas are prototype motors so any performance and economy readings are subject to change. This happens to all brands of motors when pre-production models are released to the media and discussed on the internet.
The true figures will be when an engine is produced on a production line and then tested for speed, performance, and fuel economy after being EPA certified.
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I just spoke to my local Yama Dealer - the price quoted was 20K and delivery would be best case April probably May - this is for the 300. The engines look really sweet and if they prove to be reliable may be the the last nail in the BRP Evinrude E-Tec 200-300 engines. I suspect you will be seeing some pricing actions from BRP as these babies roll-out.
Huh, last nail? So I guess Honda and Merc will need to lower their prices too since their engines (especially Honda) are heavier and now totally obsolete? Suzuki should now exit the marine market because they no longer have the biggest discplacement in their class.
If anything, it's the end of the Yamaha HPDI and F300.
SIM, come on if you rode a 31 edgewater the number one question all of us will have (your customers included) is what is the fuel burn rate at 4000, 4500, and WOT(or 6000). Give us the numbers this will tell us most of what we need to know relative to the Zuki 300 and VRod 300.
Can't see why anyone, except those with the overweight for their boat 350's, would repower until they see the numbers....
SIM, come on if you rode a 31 edgewater the number one question all of us will have (your customers included) is what is the fuel burn rate at 4000, 4500, and WOT(or 6000). Give us the numbers this will tell us most of what we need to know relative to the Zuki 300 and VRod 300.
Can't see why anyone, except those with the overweight for their boat 350's, would repower until they see the numbers....
I like it though!!!
These numbers are printed in their "Hot Sheet" with all 3 engines rigged (individually) on a 257 Grady White crusiing at 3500RPMs
SIM, come on if you rode a 31 edgewater the number one question all of us will have (your customers included) is what is the fuel burn rate at 4000, 4500, and WOT(or 6000). Give us the numbers this will tell us most of what we need to know relative to the Zuki 300 and VRod 300.
Can't see why anyone, except those with the overweight for their boat 350's, would repower until they see the numbers....
I like it though!!!
I can't recall exactly what I saw (windy and cold and I didn't feel like writing stuff down and the NO pictures rule), but I can quote it out of the perf bulletins they gave us on those boats.
27 Contender Tournament with new 4.2 twin F300's 21P SW2 props 7618 lbs
__________________ Andy Munao Our new parts site: www.simyamaha.com Yamaha Outboard Sales, Parts and Service 1-800-213-3323 parts@shipyardisland.com Click the logo to see our THT Vendor Forum
I can't recall exactly what I saw (windy and cold and I didn't feel like writing stuff down and the NO pictures rule), but I can quote it out of the perf bulletins they gave us on those boats.
27 Contender Tournament with new 4.2 twin F300's 21P SW2 props 7618 lbs
SIM Thanks, those numbers work as they are very similar to the Zuki numbers, perhaps a bit better, and better than the Vrod 300 #s. Was hoping the 4k and 4.5k gph numbers woulld be more like 20 and 25/26 respectively, but still strong results for the power.
Huh, last nail? So I guess Honda and Merc will need to lower their prices too since their engines (especially Honda) are heavier and now totally obsolete? Suzuki should now exit the marine market because they no longer have the biggest discplacement in their class.
If anything, it's the end of the Yamaha HPDI and F300.
You are correct the HPDI and 300 & 350 are dead meat. Pricing will be a direct response to the Yama pricing, initial performance & market acceptance. These new engines will also provide a quick and economical solution for current Yama installs 4 stroke 200- 350 & HPDI - which will stop competitive erosion, increase production and reduce cost for competitive replacement - all current 4 stroke manufacturers will have to respond with new product or new pricing to compete. I do not understand your displacment remark - not sure anyone buys an engine because of the displacement. In general I agree with your comments - good job.
no offense but those Edgewater numbers are poor or dont make sense. A 31ft boat with twin 300's should be more economical than that. Maybe with a full fuel load????
