Legal issue..Florida...contractors/materials...? - The Hull Truth

phreaticus53 · 10-30-2009, 03:29 PM

I am having a legal problem with the contractor who installed my baot lift in July (St. Petersburg, FL) and the lift material suppliemanufacturer..
The lift was installed as designed, I paid them the final (Of three) payment, and though all wa good.
THEN, about a month later, I get certified letter indicating that a Notice to Owner has been filed , as he contractor has not paid for the materials, by the lift manufacturer. I immediately called the cantractor, spoke with one of th owners, who assured me that it would be taken care of that week
Today, almost two months later, I get a notice of a Lien filed against my property for $4500 for the materials, as the contractor STILL hasn't settled this matter.
I called my attorney, who of course was already gone for the weekend, and then drove the 15 miles or so to the contractors office/house on the water (after leaving a phone message earlier), and actually spoke with the supervisor who oversaw the job. He admitted getting my message, and said that one of the owners would be in touch with me tommorow, and that it was a paperwork mistake (yes, I am VERY skeptical!).
My question is, if the proposal from the contractor said NOTHING about getting a release against any claims for material, why should I be liable in the first place? If I have a contractor paint my steps, and he fails to pay Home Depots bill for the paint (or brushes, etc.)...can Home Depot file a lien for that?
Seems a bit rediculous...
Any contractors, legal types out ther have any feedback on this?
I am not divulging the name of the contractor in the interest of letting them solve this issue promptly...but I WILL, on this site, and every other boating, diving, and fishing site that I monitor...believe me, it will cost them a LOT more than $4500 in bad publicity (and thats before I seek "alternative" recourse...take that as you will....lol!).

ljk · 10-30-2009, 03:38 PM

I am not a lawyer so I am not going to give you any advice other than the following. If the laws up there are the same as down here in the Keys, you have a pretty simple legal question that an attorney would be able to answer for free or for a very small charge.

Pez Vela · 10-30-2009, 03:47 PM

Your situation is quite typical. Time to read up on it. Better late than never.
http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=6964

pursuit2800 · 10-30-2009, 04:04 PM

Each supplier, subcontractor or in some cases laborers are directed by statute to give homeowners a notice that they have worked on the property. This notice is called “Notice to Owner” and must be delivered within 45 days of the first delivery of material or first work performed on your home. The failure to provide you a Notice to Owner within the time requisites results in the absolute loss of any right to claim a lien against the home.

Read above. You most likely received a Notice to Owner. Check the dates. You mentioned 2 months. If that's true, the material supplier has no recourse with you, the homeowner.

Everyone take note, always get a release of lien from all parties before making final payment.

PXMAN · 10-30-2009, 04:19 PM

Pursuit is correct. Florida has strong lien laws that protect material suppliers when a contractor does not pay for materials on a job, so long as they follow the specific instructions and timeline mandated by the Florida statutes. Your beef is with an unscrupulous contractor, that did not pay his bills, not with the supplier. You should get Final Releases from every supplier that sent a NTO in order to protect your home. If you do not, they have the right to place a lien on the property if they are not paid. It may be time to get an experienced attorney involved. Be sure and get an attorney that is knowledgeable about Florida lien laws. Most attorneys that practice in the construction arena would have this knowledge.
Good Luck!

billinstuart · 10-30-2009, 07:29 PM

a lien release does no good, it just means you have more justification in suing the contractor. IF he's state certified, there is a recovery fund to reimburse you. However, it's broke. What CAN happen is the CERTIFIED contractor can lose his license until the amount is paid and the lien released.

You have received a notice to owner AFTER the project was completed. Contact the local building department, then the state. Is the guy licensed? If not, you didn't have to pay him in the first place!

rwidman · 10-30-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phreaticus53

............I am not divulging the name of the contractor in the interest of letting them solve this issue promptly...but I WILL, on this site, and every other boating, diving, and fishing site that I monitor...believe me, it will cost them a LOT more than $4500 in bad publicity (and thats before I seek "alternative" recourse...take that as you will....lol!).

Yes, that will sure help.

Your idea of calling your attorney was a good one. All downhill from there on.

Wait and see what the attorney has to say about it. A boating forum is a pretty poor place to seek legal advice.

swampu · 10-30-2009, 08:13 PM

Watch naming the guy, you might get involved in a slander suit. Tread lightly, till you get some ammo.

bradv · 10-30-2009, 09:03 PM

If you did not recieve a notice to owner then the material supplier cant do a thing. If you have a final statement from the contractor that states paid that should be sufficient in defending yourself. Its sad to say but it does end up a problem from the homeowners alot of the time because contractors are having problems paying.

Mr. Demeanor · 10-30-2009, 09:09 PM

My nieghbor got screwed when he paid his drywall contractor for finishing the job befofre recieving a release of lein letter. When all was said and done, it cost him $20k for $10K in materials because he fought it and lost. Its truly a "f'd up"system here in Florida.

signmansez · 10-30-2009, 09:32 PM

We had a similar situation with roofing contractors here in Orlando after the hurricanes of 2004. Many fly by nighters left the state leaving homeowners holding the bag for the materials. You may be in a better situation since your lift comapany is still in business.

I believe the state or local law may be able to pursue them for criminal charges if they continue to do business while failing to pay the supplier. The local sheriff here arrested a contractor on the spot of another house he was roofing for the same circumstance you are experiencing.

Been in Fla. long enough to know that I will pay the supplier when the goods are delivered. Hopefully this will turn out OK for you. Good luck.

billinstuart · 10-31-2009, 07:09 AM

A lien release from the CONTRACTOR saying bills have been paid provides no protection. A lien release from the SUPPLIER does provide protection.

Is the contractor STATE CERTIFIED??

billinstuart · 10-31-2009, 07:20 AM

A little further..contractors/suppliers "in privity" with the property owner do not have to file "notice to owner" because the owner is dealing with them FIRSTHAND. Supplies and subcontractors who deal with the general contractor have lien rights IF they file a "notice to owner". This tells the owner "I'm supplying services or materials to your property, even though you don't know me, and I WILL get paid".

It appears the supplier has followed the law to the letter. IF the General Contractor gave you a Final Release of lien and stated all bills were paid, your recourse is with the General Contractor in civil court. You, or the General, MUST pay the supplier to get the lien released.

The lien holder can't force a property sale on a homesteaded property. You can "bond off" his lien. You can outwait him and let the lien expire if he forgets to renew it.

billinstuart · 10-31-2009, 07:22 AM

DISCLAIMER: Be advised that I'm not providing legal service, and this is simply for discussion. These are my OPINIONS on how the system works. TALK TO AN ATTORNEY

Wolakrab · 10-31-2009, 07:23 AM

billinstuart is 100% correct. A notice of lien release does no good if it comes from the contractor. If they purchased materials from someone, then the company who provided the materials is the one who you need the lien release from.
If you recieved a release of lien rights from his supplier(s), then you are in the clear. Remember, there are often several suppliers involved in a project, so you would need a release from each of those suppliers.
Each state's laws differ in regards to lien rights. In SC, the supplier has to provide a notice of furnishment for materials or labor to the owner if they ever expect to have lien rights. Check your state laws, and like Bill said, see an attorney.

nausetlight · 10-31-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman

Yes, that will sure help.

Your idea of calling your attorney was a good one. All downhill from there on.

Wait and see what the attorney has to say about it. A boating forum is a pretty poor place to seek legal advice.

Believe me if the contractor does not correct the situation , a little "public" exposure will get his attention. The people telling you otherwise are crazy.....a quick call to uncle Nunzio will straighten his ass out

skyranchrob · 10-31-2009, 08:33 AM

I hope this works out for you but I think you are on the hook for the money to the supplier, this is not unique to Fla. but the norm in most states including Ca. where I live. I would forget the attorney and file a small claims suit against the contractor if it get that far.

Flot · 10-31-2009, 08:49 AM

I'm confused. How would the op have any idea that the lift was not 100% paid for by the installer? If I were dealing with a reputable (or even unreputable) dock builder, I would assume unless very very clearly notified before work started, that the installer "owned" the materials and I was buying them from him. If the installer didn't pay for the lift I don't see how it is this guys problem unless someone produces a signed document from him that he knew this was the practice?

Now if the installer had some agreement with the manufacturer, and didn't notify the op.. Then I'd love to know how the op is on the hook...

billinstuart · 10-31-2009, 08:56 AM

No contractor "owns" materials. This is one of the dilemmas of construction, and reinforces the need to deal with a CERTIFIED contractor, as the repercussions for that contractor are more severe. The ONLY protection, as stated above, is for the OWNER to "buy" ALL materials..however, there are still "subs" to be paid.

Welcome to the world of contracting. They don't show you this stuff on those stupid homeowner/builder shows on tv, do they?

Mr. Demeanor · 10-31-2009, 09:18 AM

Flot, I will give you an even more screwed up scenario. My neighbor who got screwed had paid his contractor in full. His contractor had been making payments to the supplier for all the jobs he was working. The question became, how did the supplier determine what jobs materials were paid for and what were not when payment had been made by the contractor?
The supplier took the money they had been paid by the contractor and applied it to the oldest bill, then next oldest, then next oldest until all the money was applied to jobs. Whoever was left over at the end got liened. There was no way to tell where the money that got applied to those older outstanding bills came from. Unfortunately for my buddy, his material was delivered late in the month. But it gets even better! He did some research and it appears that some of the customers who had outstanding bills older than his had not paid. Even though they had not paid, his money was applied to their accounts because of how the delivery dates fell. He got liened and they paid nothing when the contractor went under.
He went to 10 attorneys, they all said he was SOL. He went to court and fought it himself. He is a cop with a little court experience and figured he had nothing to lose. The suppliers attorney killed him with attorneys fees to the tune of about $10k when he lost.