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steve,
we only brought a albury brothers 27 to ft. laud this year. our old space in the convention center cost a bundle and we did not think it was justified in this environment. a lot of people had trouble finding us because they moved us over to bahia mar at the last minute. sorry you didn't get to see a 23 but you are welcome to visit us in west palm beach anytime.
jeff
I did not see any good deals at the show in fact I saw higher prices. Insulting prices I should say. Hear are a few that stood out.
$163,000 for a 26 edgewater generator on the deck with cover (looks like an after thought)
$60,000 for a 24 yellowfin no options
$53,000 for 18 hells bay neptune
$80,000 for a 24 young fully loader but still
$70,000 for a 22 boston whaler outrage definitely an outrage
$350,000 + for a 37 boston whaler outrage definitely an outrage
$498,000 for a 37 pursuit small cabin for a 37
$24,000 for a pro-lite with no inner liner interior looks like concrete stucco
The list goes on and on.
I know that most of the brands that I mentioned are top of the line but still, prices are getting ridiculous. I can't feel bad for the builders anymore, who do they think we are, especially with all of the good deals on used but fairly new boats out there.
This show was a joke - especially Pro-line. Lay it on me Mike. I went to the show to buy. We all expect the prices to be higher than they should be, but negotiable - especially in this miserable economy. Not this year and not at Pro-line. I specifically told them I was there to buy, but they'd have to be realistic. They showed ZERO interest in working with me. It was either pay asking price or walk. I walked. Not only that, but prices have steadily increased over the past couple years (I've been looking at the same boat for 2 years). And they are setting everyone up for price increases next year. 2010 boat at 2009 prices - yeah right! They say their margins are paper thin so they are making it up in quantity. BS. They say price increases are due to motor and manufacturing increases. Again BS - not in this economy. Fine - hold onto that boat through the off-season. Wait for interest rates to rise. See how many you sell then. Good luck. Your new "marketing philosophy" backfired with me - you lost the sale. Wonder how long its going to take Pro-line to fall victim the the economy - and themselves!
Looks like we gained a fan.
You know, sometimes it is interesting.
I priced a boat to one person, maybe it was you, at $7000.00 less than dealer cost and was told that I was too high?
Sold a wide beam for $20,000 less than cost.
You want perhaps I lose maybe $10,000 and perhaps put a check in the glove box for you as well?
Any serious buyer that spoke to me was offered one hell of a deal, and got it.
"Serious buyer", that is.
Some one looking for the tooth fairy was probobly disapointed.
Sorry you were.
EngEdge some were dealer prices and some were builder prices. Keep in mind that some of the builders mentioned sell factory direct and don't have a dealer network.
word floating around the show was that motor mfrs were getting ready to put some hefty price increases on new builds...Oh joy.....
True story Glen.
What a time for price increases, Huh?
This morning a conversation I had with our beancounter having to do with the increases primarily with the Japanese companies, was less than pleasent. A small boat taking a 10% hit is about all we need to hear right now.
Then we, the boat guys who are just trying to stumble thru a challanging period are made to look like we're bandits.
Well, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.
where?......i was on the Sea Vee express with a/c....it was so hot i didnt walk all the way around, so maybe that is where they were.
Rod27, They were running the seatrials out of I believe its called Port Marina. It is the computerized dry stack marina accross from the convention center. The sea trials were setup at either the convention center or at Bahia Mar.
Looks like we gained a fan.
You know, sometimes it is interesting.
I priced a boat to one person, maybe it was you, at $7000.00 less than dealer cost and was told that I was too high?
Sold a wide beam for $20,000 less than cost.
You want perhaps I lose maybe $10,000 and perhaps put a check in the glove box for you as well?
Any serious buyer that spoke to me was offered one hell of a deal, and got it.
"Serious buyer", that is.
Some one looking for the tooth fairy was probobly disapointed.
Sorry you were.
Actually, Mike I am a big fan of Pro-line (the product). It suits my needs very well. My only objection is to the unreasonable prices being asked for at the show. Well, that and you trying to turn the tables on me by implying that I'm not a serious buyer and that I was looking for the tooth fairy - very professional. For the record I AM NOT the person to whom you spoke. I actually wish I had spoken to you so i would know if you really were offering good deals. I spoke only to a gentleman (I can post his name if you would like) who was about 5' 9" and very thin who claimed to be your boss (though he whispered this so I don't know if it is true). I don't need the glove box to be filled with cash. I need only to be treated fairly. I'll tell you what - why don't you level the playing field for all buyers. NO EXCUSES - Since you will have all of our info (names, addresses, birth dates, ssn, debts, bank accounts, 401ks, other assets, credit reports, etc. why don't you post true cost to manufacture your product line and we'll sit down and negotiate a reasonable profit margin that is fair to both you and the buyer (why should you have all of the bargaining power?). If you aren't willing to do that, we can only assume that you are looking to make maximum profit on each unit you sell. Again - NO EXCUSES!! I don't want to know why you can't do it. I guarantee that if you leveled the field as I have suggested, you would sell many more boats than you are now. And you'd be able to put your people back to work. I know, I know - that's not going to happen. You'll stick with maximum profit.
steve,
we only brought a albury brothers 27 to ft. laud this year. our old space in the convention center cost a bundle and we did not think it was justified in this environment. a lot of people had trouble finding us because they moved us over to bahia mar at the last minute. sorry you didn't get to see a 23 but you are welcome to visit us in west palm beach anytime.
jeff
I will most likely take you up on that - probably after the first of the year
MakoSteve, I think I saw you walking by SeaVee, were you wearing a red shirt? I was helping a customer and when I went to say hello I did not see you.
Yes, I was wearing a maroon shirt. I am just a little confused, and sorry - please do not take this the wrong way, but I am not sure who you are. the screen name is not striking a bell. Please refresh my memory. You were helping a customer...
My only objection is to the unreasonable prices being asked for at the show. I'll tell you what - why don't you level the playing field for all buyers. NO EXCUSES I know, I know - that's not going to happen. You'll stick with maximum profit.
The Pro-Line guys and the guys from Davey Marine were straight-shooters when I bought my boat. Sure - you can always find an idiot salesman you'd like to strangle anywhere, but if you're a buyer it is easy enough to spot and avoid those, or get routed to the person who will make you happy. You really think any of the vendors at the show this year wouldn't bend over backwards to make a sale?
As for the comments on prices - they didn't loook much different than they were 3 years ago. Just because buyers don't have the disposable cash to spend anymore doesn't mean the boats got cheaper to make... in most cases they probably got notably more expensive to produce - although I agree, 3 years ago I was shocked at new prices too. But have you priced out other major purchases lately? Nothing is getting cheaper except houses.
Mike - let me know which boats are going for $20k under cost, I'll start saving up!
This show was a joke - especially Pro-line. Lay it on me Mike. I went to the show to buy. We all expect the prices to be higher than they should be, but negotiable - especially in this miserable economy. Not this year and not at Pro-line. I specifically told them I was there to buy, but they'd have to be realistic. They showed ZERO interest in working with me. It was either pay asking price or walk. I walked. Not only that, but prices have steadily increased over the past couple years (I've been looking at the same boat for 2 years). And they are setting everyone up for price increases next year. 2010 boat at 2009 prices - yeah right! They say their margins are paper thin so they are making it up in quantity. BS. They say price increases are due to motor and manufacturing increases. Again BS - not in this economy. Fine - hold onto that boat through the off-season. Wait for interest rates to rise. See how many you sell then. Good luck. Your new "marketing philosophy" backfired with me - you lost the sale. Wonder how long its going to take Pro-line to fall victim the the economy - and themselves!
flnative629
Above is your first post on THT, and you come out Guns Blazing.
That was yesterday's post and now you delete that post and begin a new angle of attack (in your 2nd post today), what did you do, grow a conscious overnight ?
Who in this world would want to deal with you as a customer, regardless of how much money you might, or in the case might not have, some people just aren't worth it....period.
Here's another tip work on your "Consumer Negotiating Skills" cause your "Philosophy Sucks"............
why don't you post true cost to manufacture your product line and we'll sit down and negotiate a reasonable profit margin that is fair to both you and the buyer (why should you have all of the bargaining power?). If you aren't willing to do that, we can only assume that you are looking to make maximum profit on each unit you sell. Again - NO EXCUSES!! I don't want to know why you can't do it. I guarantee that if you leveled the field as I have suggested, you would sell many more boats than you are now. And you'd be able to put your people back to work. I know, I know - that's not going to happen. You'll stick with maximum profit.
cuz we live in a capitalist society(at least for now) ......it is your responsibility to do your research and find out what you want to pay. If it works out for both parties, great. You also have a huge used boat market to choose from, so id say the field is level. I think what you are asking for in your post is a Saturn.
Above is your first post on THT, and you come out Guns Blazing.
That was yesterday's post and now you delete that post and begin a new angle of attack (in your 2nd post today), what did you do, grow a conscious overnight ?
Who in this world would want to deal with you as a customer, regardless of how much money you might, or in the case might not have, some people just aren't worth it....period.
Here's another tip work on your "Consumer Negotiating Skills" cause your "Philosophy Sucks"............
Regards,
Big R
Not sure what you are talking about BIG. You think that was angry and guns blazing? I wasn't angry, I was disappointed. I was disappointed that Pro-line would raise prices to an unealistic level and refuse to ask fair market value for their boats. And what do you mean by "you delete that post and begin a new angle of attack"? Look at page 3 - my post is still there. Also, my comments were no "attack". In both of my posts, I expressed my disappointment that Pro-line is trying to raise prices in a down market and were unwilling to be realistic. Who in the world would want to deal with a customer like me? I was a customer with $9000.00 in my pocket and credit scores of 799, 839 and 841. Anyone trying to "bend over backwards to make a sale" would want a customer like me. Any dealer trying to maintain high profits in a down market - not so much. My negotiating skills are just fine. There was simply no negotiating with Pro-line. They wanted full asking price (high and unreasonable). Just curious - are you affiliated with Pro-line or any other dealer or manufacturer? Thats the only reason I can figure you were so bothered by my post.
Well I don't think 9k is going to get you to far at the Lauderdale Show. That might have been part of the problem. Unfortunately the cost to produce the boats is still high and the cost for dealers to stay in business is as well. If you want a below invoice deal you may want to look at a auction boat or bank owned and expect to find some issues that need to be resolved from neglect. You will get what you pay for.
Yesterday your post wasn't there (post #56), cause I read it the day before and the following day went back there to post your quote and respond to your thoughts. And earlier today it wasn't there either, now it's back (mods possibility) ??
Anyway, let me start off by saying Welcome to THT ...........There's a lot of good info from many knowledgeable people on this site, and a few not worth mentioning.
My impression of your first post sounded as if you had a personal hate against everything at the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show and especially Pro-Line Boats, the Dealer selling them, and Mike Carrigan that Reps them. Maybe you had a bad day, or something didn't quite go the way you wanted. But I went there and had a complete pleasure dealing with them. I have never met Mike C. before the show, and I do know the guys at the dealership, as they have done work on one of my boats. We were there also looking to buy a boat for one of my employees husband who wants one. Long story short, left there with great info towards that purchase.
I have no affiliation with Pro-Line Boats, nor Mike Carrigan. Other than I"m a satisfied customer and owner of one of their Pro-Line 230 Sports CC Boat.
Actually, Mike I am a big fan of Pro-line (the product). It suits my needs very well. My only objection is to the unreasonable prices being asked for at the show. Well, that and you trying to turn the tables on me by implying that I'm not a serious buyer and that I was looking for the tooth fairy - very professional. For the record I AM NOT the person to whom you spoke. I actually wish I had spoken to you so i would know if you really were offering good deals. I spoke only to a gentleman (I can post his name if you would like) who was about 5' 9" and very thin who claimed to be your boss (though he whispered this so I don't know if it is true). I don't need the glove box to be filled with cash. I need only to be treated fairly. I'll tell you what - why don't you level the playing field for all buyers. NO EXCUSES - Since you will have all of our info (names, addresses, birth dates, ssn, debts, bank accounts, 401ks, other assets, credit reports, etc. why don't you post true cost to manufacture your product line and we'll sit down and negotiate a reasonable profit margin that is fair to both you and the buyer (why should you have all of the bargaining power?). If you aren't willing to do that, we can only assume that you are looking to make maximum profit on each unit you sell. Again - NO EXCUSES!! I don't want to know why you can't do it. I guarantee that if you leveled the field as I have suggested, you would sell many more boats than you are now. And you'd be able to put your people back to work. I know, I know - that's not going to happen. You'll stick with maximum profit.
Your correct, I should not have come back at you as I did.
You'll have to admit though, your post was a little strong, would you not agree?
All of the salespeople were told that the prices on the signs were actually "08" net cost base and a very small margin. They were also told that after the showwe had no choice but to go to "2010" pricing primarily due to the outboard price increases. Additionally, we had some non current inventory we would strongly discount and if a customer was interested in a 26SS, for example, put me in it and I'd try to match up what the customer wanted with a stock boat. In the case of the 26SS I'm using as an example, we sold a couple "08" new, never used, for about $7,000 less than "08" dealer net. A couple customers got great deals, a couple others wanted an additional $5,000 or so off, which I couldn't do, and one in particular got pretty pissed offat me. I thought perhaps you were that person. I apologize if I showed my butt some, but truth be told, your not all that innocent in the matter either.
Any serious buyer at the show had an opportunity to make a very good deal. The prices on the signs were not high prices.
I cant imagine Lanie not giving you a good and full explanation as to the prices and your options. That doe's not sound like him at all.
All of the exhibitors that I spoke to had serious buyers and others that were quite unrealistic as to what a boat can be bought for. There's alot of that going on. That's fine, this is America, people have the right to make any offer they so choose. Some of the offers I got were pretty far out in left field.
I kind of agree with flnative I just think he has come on a little strong. He probably had high hopes before the show and left the show upset and surprised, I know I was. I was not in the market for a boat like flnative was so I did not let it get to me, but most of the prices were kind of high. I have always heard how you can get a better deal at the boat show, but from my past experiences I have always gotten better deals during the year than at the boat shows. All of the different vendors treated me good and all of my questions were answered. I can't say this for a fact because I was not in the market for a boat but I got the impression that most dealers were not willing to negotiate very much. It was more like a take it or leave it kind of attitude. Pro-Line treated me good but their prices were not much different than previous years and considering how bad the economy is maybe they should have been slightly lower or offered some type of incentive like some free options. There were a couple of manufactures/dealers (not Pro-Line) that told me that they had sold some boats, but inside sources latter told me that that was not true and that they had actually not sold a single boat. I think most manufactures don't what people to know how bad it really is and feel that if they lower their prices it will hurt them in the long run. They rather hold tight and wait for the economy to get better than lower prices. Flnative don't get upset their are many good deals on fairly new but used boats out there.
