*THE HULL TRUTH is the world's largest FREE network for the discussion of Boating & Fishing. Whether you're researching a new boat, or are a seasoned Captain, you'll find The Hull Truth Boating & Fishing Message Forum contains a wealth of information from Boaters and Sportfishermen around the world.
Welcome to the updated THT!
If you are having trouble signing in, please email feedback@thehulltruth.com with your username and we will help you. We thank you for your patience as we help you access the new site!
Random Quote: You can't save people from themselves
That's very interesting that you say that. I'm currently working with a couple manufacturers to do almost that exact thing. My thoughts are twofold. First, the manufacturers still need their product in front of consumers or they will no longer exist. Second, in the current climate I refuse to go in debt or I will be in exactly the same situation as the new boat dealers are right now. The answer is to share the burden on costs like transportation and prep but in a brokerage type arrangement so I'm not drowning in floor plan costs and ultimately the manufacturer can decide if they want to accept a deal or not. They are the ones that really know the production cost and how badly they want to build another boat. I truly believe there needs to be massive change in the boating industry for long term survival. It will require people working together for a solution that ultimately is profitable enough to sustain the industry. I for one am up for the challenge.
I figured as much, all you need are a few "pro staff" with current boat models in your area for the customer to sea trial and look over. You can pound out the details over a desk.
As for service, there are a lot of shops around that are certified and can get more Certs. No need for dealers.
Seen it happen in other business, the model works. Going to happen in the boating world also.
It is interesting how some folks on this trail are saying they prefer to buy from a full service dealer. Well, my last two boats came from a full service dealer, that was more than happy to do any work I needed done when it was convinent for them. For example, I had them perform about $5000 in work not long after I purchased the boat (it was used) from them, while I had actually had it at their marina. A few weeks back i called for them to come check something out, however I am now about a 30 or so mile drive to my current marina. Well with their 10 or so mobile service vehicles and me having no issue paying their travel time, I was given a flat out 'Sorry, we can't help you'. I do most of my work myself, but wanted them to take take a look at something/fix it. Well lets see, will I buy my 3rd boat from them, I really dought it.
I have no issues buying through a broker and honestly could care less about full service dealers, as they sure don't care about their customers a year after they buy a boat!
__________________ Justin
2000 Luhrs 320 Open - CAT Power United States Power Squadron - Vessel Safety Examiner
It is interesting how some folks on this trail are saying they prefer to buy from a full service dealer. Well, my last two boats came from a full service dealer, that was more than happy to do any work I needed done when it was convinent for them. For example, I had them perform about $5000 in work not long after I purchased the boat (it was used) from them, while I had actually had it at their marina. A few weeks back i called for them to come check something out, however I am now about a 30 or so mile drive to my current marina. Well with their 10 or so mobile service vehicles and me having no issue paying their travel time, I was given a flat out 'Sorry, we can't help you'. I do most of my work myself, but wanted them to take take a look at something/fix it. Well lets see, will I buy my 3rd boat from them, I really dought it.
I have no issues buying through a broker and honestly could care less about full service dealers, as they sure don't care about their customers a year after they buy a boat!
Shame on that dealer; though I would like to hear his defense. But Justin turning one dealer experience into "THEY sure don't care...." is a bit of a stretch not to mention unfair to the rest of the dealers; wouldn't you agree?
And you judge us all by one experience you had with one dealer. Have you ever heard the story about one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch? Tell me the business you are in so I can relate the one bad experience I am sure I had with it--You owe us that much by now with your attitude!
I was not judging "all of you " by my bad experience with one dealer. I've purchased plenty of new boats since the first Grady experience, and yes I moved to another dealer and bought two more Gradys from them. I had to travel an additional 40 miles to do it and getting service was a bit of an issue but not a huge deal. I was totally happy with the service and treatment that I was shown at the second dealer. Two entirely different business models, one family owned and service oriented, the other looking to make as much as possible on the sale and essentially giving up on the customer beyond the warranty period. I was trying to point out the good the bad and the ugly of a particular incident with a dealer ......Service every customer equally, if they did not buy from you originally, you want to earn that customers business from here on out. Service can and will pay the bills even when times are tough, aren't we all more likely to maintain than replace right now?
Once again I have no beef with the good dealers out there ,was just pointing out the fact that the days of 25% new boat margins being made every day are probably gone for the foreseeable future and they'll need adapt to a changing market quickly or they may not survive. Anybody have a problem with that observation? .......As far as my line of work what are you gonna do blame me for you getting stuck in an elevator?? Go ahead, I've taken worse than you could imagine from customers over the past 30 years, when it hits the fan , I am the guy that makes the problem go away for everyone else, and I deal with it.....
Shame on that dealer; though I would like to hear his defense. But Justin turning one dealer experience into "THEY sure don't care...." is a bit of a stretch not to mention unfair to the rest of the dealers; wouldn't you agree?
Errie I think you and a very few are the exception. Most marinas dont have a clue on how to give the customer the best value and still make a profit. I was doing a little side work for a top marina in my area, I tried to tel their purchasing guy that they were paying to much for a lot of materials?$ His answer was, I just tack the extra cost on to the customer! I dont need to look for any more work then I have. Then he went Internet cruising on the companies time? Then in the same marina I offered to teach the forklift travel lift operator to do a little gel coat patch work on the marinas trade ins. No they let him stand around smoking until they need him? I guess when they raised the lift and hauling fees this year they just included his standing and doing nothing time in it! Cant you tell by the thread comments that things are not how they should be?
Errie I think you and a very few are the exception. Most marinas dont have a clue on how to give the customer the best value and still make a profit. I was doing a little side work for a top marina in my area, I tried to tel their purchasing guy that they were paying to much for a lot of materials?$ His answer was, I just tack the extra cost on to the customer! I dont need to look for any more work then I have. Then he went Internet cruising on the companies time? Then in the same marina I offered to teach the forklift travel lift operator to do a little gel coat patch work on the marinas trade ins. No they let him stand around smoking until they need him? I guess when they raised the lift and hauling fees this year they just included his standing and doing nothing time in it! Cant you tell by the thread comments that things are not how they should be?
This is what I am talking about, " why try and save the customer a buck when we have him by the balls and they'll pay whatever we charge " outlook to customer service. Show a customer how you saved him some cash and he'll appreciate it enough to spread the word.......
I know I am going to regret responding to this thread, but I am pissed!!!! I am/ was…. A new boat dealer, and have been in my own business for 16/17 years, and was a mechanic before that. I started in a 2000 sq foot shop, by myself, and grew it to a three location dealership in two states employing up to twenty one full and part time employees. My dealership was the forty second in the nation to be NMMA certified… witch I found means NOTHING to most of you… and we held an average of 97.5% CSI rating with our customer feedback, according to Monterey, and higher with Everglades’s owners. So, I feel that I can talk with some type of expertise in this field. This kind of naïve and hostile attitude towards dealers is unbelievable. What side of the argument are you on nausetlight? “If they were to cut out the 25% dealer mark up and the $3000 freight and prep BS, maybe they'd sell a few more boats.” Then you say: ““I understand the dealer has a huge overhead, also safe to say that if that same dealer can't survive on service and small item sales” Then you say IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH: “Time to refocus the business to survive on service and bringing in repeat customers to buy whatever they can sell, life jackets, flares, whatever”
You obviously have NO IDEA what it takes to stock, maintain boats for sale, organize boat shows, move product, pay health benefits, keep mechanics certifications current, …. I am going to stop now because I feel my anger getting the best of me. I would ask everyone before they post opinions about something they have no idea about to look in the mirror. Ask yourself what it takes to run your place of work? For anyone who owns their own business they will know what I am talking about. For the rest of you think about it. Right now some of you are in your cubical reading The Hull Truth. Someone is paying you to read about your hobby right now. Look at your coworkers and imaging paying for them? Imagine paying for the lights, the coffee, the pens, paper you use. Now imagine someone who has no idea what the hidden cost are, telling you that you need to work for less. Hey Nausetlight, I think if you were to work for free your boss would sell more products also. After all, your expenses are all just “prep BS”… right?
This is what I am talking about, " why try and save the customer a buck when we have him by the balls and they'll pay whatever we charge " outlook to customer service. Show a customer how you saved him some cash and he'll appreciate it enough to spread the word.......
And that is precisely why we do what the market demands; and right now the demand is that we buy used boats and resell them at a fair price after making sure they check out structurally and mechanically. Same goes with new; if we can buy a group of boats at a deal, we do so.
Marinas are a whole different animal and they don't all sell boats any more than boat dealers all own marinas.
Some of the experiences that are described herein have to do with isolated incidences and some are potential recurring themes at a particular marina or dealership. Any business must stand on its own two feet and there are good, bad and medium examples in any business you wish to name; including elevators; and yes, I've had my share of bad experiences with elevators over the years--but most have been good experiences.
We all choose our car dealers, camper dealers, motorcycle dealers based on good price and good service--it's human nature. My entire point here is that there are far more good than bad out there and they deserve more credit than they get---but even the best are only the best 80 to 90 percent of the time at best; whatever the surveys may say. You just can't satisfy all the people all the time.
Back to the origin--no direct selling going on at Parker or Everglades and probably not Grady---their dealers are way too important for them to take that risk. Even Proline's program routes every sale through the nearest dealer to the buyer without exception; and that dealer is properly compensated for his efforts.
I don't think there is truly any disagreement here; we are just pointing out differing viewpoints which is healthy and is the whole point of this forum to begin with eh?
Let me share an instance that may shed some light on my viewpoint. First of all I am not afraid of paying top dollar for anything and definitely not one to beat a dealer into submission to get the lowest possible price.If a dealer needs x amount to keep the doors open I can understand that of course, what bothers me is when you pay for that perceived quality and it is not delivered. I had purchased a new Grady White when delivered would not shift out of gear, bilge pumps and livewell pumps not working and electrical system blowing fuses in addition the overpriced bottom paint job was 2" too low. Salesman that delivered the boat hit the dock because it would not shift out of gear! The next day a mechanic shows up at my dock and tells me after working on it for an hour that "that is as good as the can get it and if I don't like it I should have bought a different boat!!! This was my first 24 hours as proud owner of a "top quality" boat and this was what a $3000 freight and prep charge should avoid by thoroughly checking all systems before delivery, an elite dealership my ass.
The situation got to the point that Eddie Smith (CEO of Grady) had the dealer come and get the boat to straighten it out. Obviously nothing was "prepped" on the boat other than a wash and wax. Do you think that is okay? This is Grady dealer that has all kinds of service awards on the wall yet to this day does not know how to service their customer base. Not many people use this dealer for service after warranty because of their reputation for high prices and questionable quality of service.
Unique situation yet you make generalizations about all boat dealers. Try comparing apples to apples...
If Eddie Smith had to get involved in your situation, and based on my knowledge of Grady White, I am certain the dealer involved in this received some "needed attention" from those at Grady.
Business models will change as they have in most industries. The dealer model, though, is probably a permanent fixture given the logistics of selling to consumers and servicing those consumers.
Dealers with strong service departments will survive in this environment. The service department, if strong and run efficiently, should pretty much cover the overhead of a "typical" dealership (not the local Taj Mahal). Sales is sometimes viewed as a loss leader to get the customer in the door and then wow them with service and the added value provided by the dealership.
I was not judging "all of you " by my bad experience with one dealer. I've purchased plenty of new boats since the first Grady experience, and yes I moved to another dealer and bought two more Gradys from them. I had to travel an additional 40 miles to do it and getting service was a bit of an issue but not a huge deal. I was totally happy with the service and treatment that I was shown at the second dealer. Two entirely different business models, one family owned and service oriented, the other looking to make as much as possible on the sale and essentially giving up on the customer beyond the warranty period. I was trying to point out the good the bad and the ugly of a particular incident with a dealer ......Service every customer equally, if they did not buy from you originally, you want to earn that customers business from here on out. Service can and will pay the bills even when times are tough, aren't we all more likely to maintain than replace right now?
Once again I have no beef with the good dealers out there ,was just pointing out the fact that the days of 25% new boat margins being made every day are probably gone for the foreseeable future and they'll need adapt to a changing market quickly or they may not survive. Anybody have a problem with that observation? .......As far as my line of work what are you gonna do blame me for you getting stuck in an elevator?? Go ahead, I've taken worse than you could imagine from customers over the past 30 years, when it hits the fan , I am the guy that makes the problem go away for everyone else, and I deal with it.....
Hmmm. Bad experience with Grady White.....purchase 2 more.
Let's face some reality whether or not anyone likes it. The economy has sucked so bad that it has and continues to change the way business is conducted. You folks notice how many things you want that used to be stocked in a store and now has to ordered? I certainly have. Boat dealers are like many other people. Some are great, some are OK, some flat out suck. Justin's story is unfortunately not all that uncommon. Some people start feeling their effort is not worth the time and sometimes people make enough money where they don't seem to care about other opportunities. This disposition seems to bite folks in the @ss more than it pays off. If I were Justin I would write that particular dealer off and be a PR rep. for them too if you know what I mean. I realize the pendulum swings both ways but life too often follows the golden rule (He who has the gold rules). If a dealer is not willing to at least try and satisfy a customer then he/she is without a doubt in the wrong business if he/she desires to make money. This is how the game is played whether or not anyone agrees with the rules of the game or not.
The boating industry is undoubtedly going to be a different business model from what it was. Dealers deserve to make money as they provide a valuable service. However the delivery of such service and the tightening of available money for most people is changing the criteria and expectation of both sales and service. People who spend money expect to have a reason to spend their money with a certain entity. The tighter the available money supply is translates into a higher expectation from a dealer/manufacturer.
What I have observed is the cost of almost everything is going up. The govt. reports little or no inflation. I find this to be BS. For example my homeowners insurance is more than double from it was 8-9 years ago and with the current market conditions my house is worth about the same as it was about 10 years ago. Something is very wrong in my world when the cost of boats have significantly increased within a decade. A Ford truck for example does not cost significantly more than it did about seven years ago. It might cost 10% - 20% more to buy the same model truck it did about seven years ago. The cost of boats on the other hand appears to have risen substantially more. I understand that building boats is a different business than the car business and there is a hell of an argument as to why the auto industry is where it is today. The reality is most people don't have a money tree and can not afford to keep paying the prices that are being demanded by manufactures. When I was a youngster a guy who had a $100k boat was $hittin' in high cotton. Today $100k maybe buys you a new 24' - 26' boat in many scenarios. It used to be only a millionaire could afford to buy a 50' boat. Soon it is going to be a 26' boat. Costs are outweighing the ability for most people to pay (inflation) and the boating industry is being forced to face reality. Corporations are forced to do business in a cost efficient manner in ways they have not been faced with before. The boating industry is faced with a dilemma as the cost of labor and overhead combined with the lack of sales is undoubtedly going to force many players out of the market. When I was a kid a $100k was big money. Then a million bucks was big money. Today having a million dollars seems to not be as enviable as having $100k about twenty years ago. When you see manufactures like Viking laying off a substantial portion of their workforce there exists serious problems. In the relative near future the boating industry is probably going to look very different from it was. There is and will be those that complain about it and there will be those that adapt and do something about it. Unless I have an incorrect perception, it appears goods cost significantly more today than they did not very long ago and they are not holding there value as they once did. I remember when a Mercedes Benz cost say $40k and you drove it for 4-5 years and sold it for 40% - 60% of what you paid for it. Now you buy a MB and it depreciates 40% - 60% in less than two years. The trend is not very encouraging considering income for most folks does not appear to be growing at the same rate as the cost of goods and services.
Most boating customers would never get into the boat business, I agree that yes it probably is a very difficult business to make a profit. That being said, why are you in the business if there is no money in it as you say............Nobody forced you into the boat business and if it is so difficult then get the hell out, its still a free country isn't it. I am only looking at it from a consumers point of view because yes I am a consumer and no I am not in the boat business, Do you think that the average consumer gives a rats ass about the local car dealership having a tough time when they walk in to haggle a deal? Same for boats, consumers may be buying a "lifestyle" in your mind but the bottom line is you are trying to sell a boat and the buyer is trying to pay as little as possible for it, they don't care how much you are into the boat for , if you were taking a trade you would try to pay as little as possible for it.
dealer unit worth 100k, dealer want mimimum 120k
buyer unit worth 60k, dealer offers maximum 40k
that is 40k of margin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bly
Errie I think you and a very few are the exception. Most marinas dont have a clue on how to give the customer the best value and still make a profit. I was doing a little side work for a top marina in my area, I tried to tel their purchasing guy that they were paying to much for a lot of materials?$ His answer was, I just tack the extra cost on to the customer! I dont need to look for any more work then I have. Then he went Internet cruising on the companies time? Then in the same marina I offered to teach the forklift travel lift operator to do a little gel coat patch work on the marinas trade ins. No they let him stand around smoking until they need him? I guess when they raised the lift and hauling fees this year they just included his standing and doing nothing time in it! Cant you tell by the thread comments that things are not how they should be?
thanks for spilling the beans. given the high premium that manufactuer/dealer are charging. no wonder they are still going belly up.
I have been amazed to watch several dealers locally go out of business..while continuing to follow their same old sales model. Few, if any hours on the weekends, no reductions in prices, and no outwardly noticeable attempt at increasing their sales.
Doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity..and going out of business.
Hmmm. Bad experience with Grady White.....purchase 2 more.
No the bad experience was with a particular Grady dealer not prepping the boat....would you like to see the original bill of sale on all three Grady's? Would you like me to name the dealer for you
Unique situation yet you make generalizations about all boat dealers. Try comparing apples to apples...
If Eddie Smith had to get involved in your situation, and based on my knowledge of Grady White, I am certain the dealer involved in this received some "needed attention" from those at Grady.
Business models will change as they have in most industries. The dealer model, though, is probably a permanent fixture given the logistics of selling to consumers and servicing those consumers.
Dealers with strong service departments will survive in this environment. The service department, if strong and run efficiently, should pretty much cover the overhead of a "typical" dealership (not the local Taj Mahal). Sales is sometimes viewed as a loss leader to get the customer in the door and then wow them with service and the added value provided by the dealership.
I do not believe that this particular Grady dealer has changed their business model since the problems that I had with them. I spoke directly with Eddie Smith about the situation and Grady corrected the issues on my boat, beyond that I have no idea what was said. I purchased 2 additional Grady Whites after that first one because of Gradys concern and actions. If it were left to the dealer, Grady would have lost a GREAT customer for life, fortunately the factory stepped up. Did Grady "adjust" this dealers attitude? they may have tried but I do not know. I do know that this particular dealer will never see a dime of my money ever again. The other dealer "Bayside Marine" knows exactly how to treat customers and tend to keep them happy.
For all of you dealer apologists out there, there is no excuse for a dealer not caring about a customer before or after the sale.......
Comparing apples to apples? I thought I was comparing how two Grady White dealers within 40 miles of each other. Two similar dealers having business models that are diametrically opposed are about as good of an example as I can provide. The first dealer couldn't care less after the sale, the second dealer doing everything within reason to make the customer happy ,including sending the salesman by with a trailer to take the boat in for break in service at no charge......apples to apples there is no comparison between the two dealers
Good thing your not a parker loyalist for parkers sake? with their business model
Quote:
Originally Posted by nausetlight
I do not believe that this particular Grady dealer has changed their business model since the problems that I had with them. I spoke directly with Eddie Smith about the situation and Grady corrected the issues on my boat, beyond that I have no idea what was said. I purchased 2 additional Grady Whites after that first one because of Gradys concern and actions. If it were left to the dealer, Grady would have lost a GREAT customer for life, fortunately the factory stepped up. Did Grady "adjust" this dealers attitude? they may have tried but I do not know. I do know that this particular dealer will never see a dime of my money ever again. The other dealer "Bayside Marine" knows exactly how to treat customers and tend to keep them happy.
For all of you dealer apologists out there, there is no excuse for a dealer not caring about a customer before or after the sale.......
At least he has the choice to go to enougher dealer of the same brand? Isnt the oarker plan a anti trust price and dealer protection plan? Competition will eventually fix things if we change? no change no future existence
No the bad experience was with a particular Grady dealer not prepping the boat....would you like to see the original bill of sale on all three Grady's? Would you like me to name the dealer for you
Never said you didn't own them. Just seems with so much passion against the dealer and incident, it would give you a bad taste about the manufacturer as well.
