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My fishing buddy has a 29' Hydrasport with E-Tecs. He was haunted with overheating E-Tecs for a few years. (250hp). The dealer must have pulled the boat 8 times, at least. They went through every possible thing on the motor.
Finally a manufacturers rep. got involved and said they have a newly designed Poppit Valve. It seems to have cured the problem, but to be honest, I'm skeptical.
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1. there was a "rolled gromet" on the water pump.
2. there was a pinched oring in the water pump.
3. twisted exhaust adapter inside of mid housing.
they went for a seatrail on the intra coastal in delray beach, ran at least 5 miles, and the port engine ran below 160 degrees, the whole time.
the starboard engine also ran as expected.
yippie !!!
so.........it only took $2000 for dealer # 3 to solve the issues above, that i assume were created by dealer # 2
now the last issue to resolve (just found it) is a cracked cylinder head at the thermostat, that has been repaired with jb weld, or marine tex, but happens to be leaking slightly. so i need to bring the boat back to dealer # 3 for that repair next week. (estmated around $1300) but we are good to go for this weekend.
how does a cylinder head get cracked?
i know there was talk about how evirude left us hanging, but looking back, i can only assume, that evinrude has to assume, that its dealers actually know what they are doing. the overheat issues were obviously caused by human error during repairs and testing, not by any defect of the engine.
evinrude obviously did not cause this overheat issue.
however - evinrude recomended these dealers, that created the problems, as evinrude authorized service representatives?
1. where my previous dealers certified? they are listed on the evinrude web site. dealer # 1 even sold and installed the engines.
2. where the previous mechanics that worked on my engines trained by evinrude for the exact procedures that were required?
3. how does the next guy avoid problems like this?
4. is there an evinrude service dealer rating system?
thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions. sunday should be a nice day for a boat ride. will check in and report on engine performance.
Slayride...thank god that's fixed....I am going to use your thread as an example as to why I always say dealer first.....then engine.....today's engines are complex, I don't need to go on, you obviously know all this, just thank god it stayed below 160.....just fyi, in case it creeps up, ours normally run 165-170...so don't worry....
All's good and a cracked head? WTF? All that down time, $2000 for initial repairs and $1300 for a cracked head? So who has to pay for all that? How's that extended warranty working out for you? Is Evinrude or the dealers involved covering any/all of these costs? I'd like to know before I buy any more engines. I'm glad you almost got it fixed. Would you please post a picture of the cracked head? Wow! I hope you catch a big one this weekend!
All's good and a cracked head? WTF? All that down time, $2000 for initial repairs and $1300 for a cracked head? So who has to pay for all that? How's that extended warranty working out for you? Is Evinrude or the dealers involved covering any/all of these costs? I'd like to know before I buy any more engines. I'm glad you almost got it fixed. Would you please post a picture of the cracked head? Wow! I hope you catch a big one this weekend!
going to pick up boat now, will get pics of cracked head, will supply billing details.
going to pick up boat now, will get pics of cracked head, will supply billing details.
none of this work is warranty.
The warranty doesn't cover work after the initial work?....These third party warranties are hardly worth it in my book, there are alot of if's and's or but's.....I would be a little pissed off, and I think I would have a serious phone call with BRP about who is repping their products.....we are a distributor for a very large communications manufacturer, and I guarantee you, when they get a disgruntled end user, that is legitimate, the dealer takes some heat, it should be that way in every industry......
May you have the best fishing weekend you've ever had, you deserve it.
picked up boat. dealer # 3 is very meticulous, and has excellent attention to detail. i paid the $2085 invoice to redo the work performed by dealers 1 and 2. towed boat back to fort lauderdale from delray beach, dropped boat off @ the dry rack marina.
the following items were part of the repair charges from dealer # 3
1. remove power head
2. remove lower unit
3. dissasemble mid assembly
4. replace exhaust seal gasket that was twisted and crimped in such a way the the mid housing did not fill up with water, to quiet the engine exhaust. i assume this was the sound difference in the engines that i pointed out to outboard killer, who had no idea why the engines did not sound the same.
5. replace the water plate, located inside the mid housing, has something to do with cooling water before it enters the power head. 2 of the 4 mounting bolts were sheared off, and the entire part needed to be replaced so that the cooling water entered the power head properly.
6. dozens of gaskets were replaced
7. dozens of missing, but required, bolts and washers were installed
8. rubber impeller and cup were replaced, wear was noticable on impeller and "cup", i assume from improper assembly?
9. WATER PUMP ORING REPLACED DUE TO CRIMP AND KINK -- SEE ATTACHED PHOTO - I ASSUME THIS IS HOW AIR ENTERED THE SYSTEM?
10. WATER PUMP GROMET WAS REPLACED !!! GROMMET WAS JAMMED AND KINKED SIDEWAYS. see attached photo THIS GROMMET IS WHAT SEALS THE LOWER UNIT COOLING WATER OUTPUT TO THE MID HOUSING WATER TUBE (THE TUBE THAT WAS REPLACED !!!!) SO WE HAD AT LEAST A 50% RESTRICTION IN THE COOLING WATER - IN ADDITION TO AIR INDUCED FROM CRIMPED ORING.
then we have the new items to complain about -
11. some sort of epoxy holding in the thermostat on the stbd engine. no leaks at this time, but what happens when we need to service this thermostat. this is the area with the assumed $1300 cracked cylinder head.
12. port engine cowling has many new scratches and dings
13. port mid housing has many new chips and dings in the paint
14. port engine cowling has lots of new chips and dings
and then, to add new insult to injury, dealer # 1 sent a $500 invoice for the work performed, that started this whole mess. i have not contacted him yet.
where do we even start to attempt to sort out this mess???
there is still an invoice due from dealer # 2 that i have not seen yet.
Damn...are these motors that much of a pain to work on?? Are there warnings in the factory service manual that seals and grommets will roll if not handled a certain way? Are there just not enough of them being serviced by owners who give "heads up" to certain idiosyncrasies?
Thank God for Andy at SIM, and all his help for our Yamahas...he has pointed out several times the problems with the seal on the water pump housings, and to use heavy grease or gorilla snot to hold them in.
Hope you E-tech guys can get some of the same kind of help here...doesn't seem like BRP is of much help???
I just replaced the water pumps on two 2000 Johnson 200 Ocean Pros. It looks like the water pumps on my engines are exactly the same as yours in your pics. The area where the gaskets (O-rings) 'kinked' is a tough little area. You're supposed to lightly glue that O-ring in the groove with special adhesive. I went to the dealer to buy some, and they said they used 'rubber gasket adhesive' that you buy in an auto parts store. If you don't lightly glue the gasket in properly it will kink when installing the pump. There is no way to install the water pump housing properly without doing this step, which is clearly indicated in the instructions. The dealership I bought the pumps from asked where I learned about this adhesive being required. I said it was in the instructions ... they said they never had anybody read the instructions before, and had never been asked for the adhesive. The sole purpose of the adhesive is to hold that long flimsy O-ring in the groove during installation.
Your mechanics tried to use a shortcut by skipping the adhesive is my guess. It takes about 5 minutes for the adhesive to 'tack up', then about 5 minutes of so to effectively stick the gasket in the groove. It has to be held there while the adhesive can set enough to hold the gasket in that shallow groove.
I'm glad I do this kind of work myself because I CARE how it comes out. I've never seen a mechanic that cared as much about my engines as ME. I had never done this type of work before, I had never even taken a lower unit off. I could now remove the lower unit, change a water pump correctly, and replace the lower unit properly in about an hour. I'm really glad I did all this myself because I KNOW that it is done properly.
Read the instrucitons that came with the waterpump ?? What a novel idea ...
Damn...are these motors that much of a pain to work on?? Are there warnings in the factory service manual that seals and grommets will roll if not handled a certain way? Are there just not enough of them being serviced by owners who give "heads up" to certain idiosyncrasies?
EVERY SINGLE THING that the OP experienced in terms of gaskets and seals is specifically mentioned in the installation instructions that come with the water pumps. The overheating was a symptom of shoddy wiorkmanship by whoever installed the water pumps ... period. THere is simply no excuse, other than laziness of the mechanic, or simply the mechanic thinking that he was too good to read any 'stinkin' instructions'.
Before I touched my motors I read the instructions cover to cover several times so that I understood what they meant, and I understood the purpose of the steps that BRP recommends.
To think that this was all caused by a sloppily installed water pump is just ludicrous, and a terrible shame.
See post aboive for further explanations of the gasket procedure.
Had I seen these pics before I could have told you immediately what the problems were.
You can actually see where there was no adhesive used in that pump housing, because you have to use it right where the kinks occurred, otherwise the gasket will not stay in that groove.
got more info from dealer # 3. there were 3 seperate problems:
1. there was a "rolled gromet" on the water pump ( i assume where the lower unit connects to the mid housing, reducing water flow?)
2. there was a pinched oring in the water pump (introducing air?)
3. twisted exhaust adapter inside of mid housing.
no seatrail today - will run the boat in the morning -
Do not know if I missed it but could you share with us what dealer are you using now??? It seems that you finally found a good tech and probably everybody else could make use of one in the future....
I was also tempted to ask you for dealer #1 and 2 but I would understand if you do not want to...
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Damn...are these motors that much of a pain to work on?? Are there warnings in the factory service manual that seals and grommets will roll if not handled a certain way? Are there just not enough of them being serviced by owners who give "heads up" to certain idiosyncrasies?
Thank God for Andy at SIM, and all his help for our Yamahas...he has pointed out several times the problems with the seal on the water pump housings, and to use heavy grease or gorilla snot to hold them in.
Hope you E-tech guys can get some of the same kind of help here...doesn't seem like BRP is of much help???
I have changed my water pump a few times on my 225 FICHTs with no problem, after the first time seeing how it all worked. PIA getting the shift lever up through the gromet in the upper housing shell without knocking it loose or tearing it. And keeping the exhaust housing from tipping over while lifting he lower unit back up into place (another place for some adhesive on the lower part of the big gasket and grease on the upper part of the same gasket to help it slide into place and release next time for service), and it is a two man job lifting that sucker up while juggling everything in place/retilting the motor helps during the process to get it more upright. Lot's of fun. I used a very small thin layer of grease to hold the shaft key and all the rings and things in place. Too much will clog the water pump primer hole, but I think a thin layer inside the impeller cup helps to keep the rubber impeller from burning up on the first start. It's also mentioned in the sealoc repair manual I bought in the store. I always wondered if you put the impeller in with the blades bent the wrong way if they would flip over to the right direction?
I just replaced the water pumps on two 2000 Johnson 200 Ocean Pros. It looks like the water pumps on my engines are exactly the same as yours in your pics. The area where the gaskets (O-rings) 'kinked' is a tough little area. You're supposed to lightly glue that O-ring in the groove with special adhesive. I went to the dealer to buy some, and they said they used 'rubber gasket adhesive' that you buy in an auto parts store. If you don't lightly glue the gasket in properly it will kink when installing the pump. There is no way to install the water pump housing properly without doing this step, which is clearly indicated in the instructions. The dealership I bought the pumps from asked where I learned about this adhesive being required. I said it was in the instructions ... they said they never had anybody read the instructions before, and had never been asked for the adhesive. The sole purpose of the adhesive is to hold that long flimsy O-ring in the groove during installation.
Your mechanics tried to use a shortcut by skipping the adhesive is my guess. It takes about 5 minutes for the adhesive to 'tack up', then about 5 minutes of so to effectively stick the gasket in the groove. It has to be held there while the adhesive can set enough to hold the gasket in that shallow groove.
I'm glad I do this kind of work myself because I CARE how it comes out. I've never seen a mechanic that cared as much about my engines as ME. I had never done this type of work before, I had never even taken a lower unit off. I could now remove the lower unit, change a water pump correctly, and replace the lower unit properly in about an hour. I'm really glad I did all this myself because I KNOW that it is done properly.
Read the instrucitons that came with the waterpump ?? What a novel idea ...
REV
I have always used vasaline instead of the glue. I will hold the o-rings and gaskets in place as long as you don't use too much.
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You're probably right David, but when it comes to things like rubber gaskets, o-rings, and grommets, I'm very cautious about using lubricants/greases/adhesives that I'm not sure will not react to the rubber of the gasket itself. I'm sure vaseline may work, but I figured that I couldn't go wrong with what the factory uses. I was amazed at how easy it was to do ... I removed the left side cowling, and then the shift lever bolt and rubber grommet are very easy to position and see. With the cowling removed, you can reach in with a needle nose pliers and manipulate the shift lever however you need to. If you didn't remove that cowling, the job would be a Bi### and a half. Took 2 minutes to remove the cowling, and made the entire job a piece of cake. I actually did mine right over the water while my boat was on a boat lift. Replaced the starboard lower unit with an SEI replacement after the original blew right at the inlet after a trip 50+ miles offshore. So far so good on the SEI replacement that was installed.
I always wondered if you put the impeller in with the blades bent the wrong way if they would flip over to the right direction?
Can't say for absolute sure, but I wouldn't think they'd flip the right way on their own, they're bent over pretty good. They won't pump properly, and then they'll probably break off. Make real sure they're in the right way the first time .... this is another thing that is explained very clearly in the instructions that came with the pump. If people would bother to read them !
Rev: I have done a few water pumps , and yes you'r right about the fins turned to the right direction , but they are rubber fins so they will find the right rotation on the first half revolution of the shaft , there is no way I can turn all those fins to the same direction while installing , but I do make sure to get them right once in the pump.
Shop mechanics are not always as meticulous as we are , most don't take the extra second that you and I to get the rotation right , and still no problems.
there is no way I can turn all those fins to the same direction while installing ,
Shop mechanics are not always as meticulous as we are , most don't take the extra second that you and I to get the rotation right
LOL, it aint easy, but I grease the inside of the cup, and then twist the impeller in the correct direction as I push down on it ... it goes right in, but may take a few tries.
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so i need to bring the boat back to dealer # 3 for that repair next week. (estmated around $1300) but we are good to go for this weekend. 
