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Here is the result of many posts from whalercentral that Duf made. I copied and pasted.
I picked up my boat today and apparently my issues with over-temping, had to do with how i was flushing my motor out. There is an O-ring that seats inside the insert that you remove to utilize the upper portion of the flush option of the ETEC. According to my mechanic, this option is used to flush the motor without starting it, and allows you to flush the entire motor, top to bottom without starting the motor, which makes for happier neighbors at 11PM, or 6am. Normally, you use the lower intackes with the ears, and push the water up into the head. My mistake, was using the upper outlet and allowing the O-ring that i saw, and thought it belonged on the end of the insert. Which, from the first time i pulled it, is where i saw it, to be on the end of the ensert, and not enserted inside the housing for the insert to mate to. Confused yet? Bottom line, i had an O ring in the wrong place which allowed my water pressure to drop significantly enought to overtemp my motor. I will be sending out the new water pressure readings for those of you with the big block ETECS to compare to.
I retrevied my boat and motor today, took a test run, doubled the distance i had that the alarm went off 4 times, had the O ring in the correct position and no alarms.......draw your own conclusions.
God i hope this is the last comment on this thread!!
Still love my ETEC!! ran like a champ today!! Gonna run her like a dog tomorrow!!
__________________ They weren't biting at all.....then they slacked up.
"
Note to Doug: In my research it appeared that there is a nagging problem with the sensitivity of the ETEC big blocks and over temping, which is why BRP tossed the immediate fix of the bigger intakes and 10 lb to 7 lb spring change on the blow by valve. So, is that what fixed my overall problem? Have to look at history, and there were no over temps before i purchased the motor and most likely the changed routine on how the motor was rinsed was the culprit in this particular case which was directly initiated by the mis-located O-ring. However, i think there may be a change in the water pump volume/design on the big ETEC's upcoming in the future as i think the sensitivity is an issue, and based on the charts Kamie supplied me, i should have been good to go with the pressure i had.
Gotta tell you though, the motor ran like a kitten with her belly being rubbed in high gear today!!
Tom. the upper portal is my exhaust, the lower is the water output, and that is the insert i remove to insert a hose to flush the motor.
Dave, you are the man when it comes to manuals, dang, how do you come up with all them! Anyhow, not sure how you do, but it is truly apprecaited!! "
Duf
duf attached the following image:
[37.53Kb]
__________________ They weren't biting at all.....then they slacked up.
Any way to start to isolate some areas, like hooking up a hose to the water tube and then begin to take off T stat covers and such to check for water flow - this is just unbelieveable all the things you're tried - but isolate and eliminate
could something like a poppit valve not be opening - thats too simple if they even have one but maybe under increased pressure something is lodged someplace and cuts the water off - thats why I siggested a hose, as you vary the pressure
at this point a band aid would be fine with me, even if it is a design flaw. what hoses got changed? the ones cooling the emm?
Talked to my buddy about the repair.They put a softer spring in the poppet valve and changed the water intakes scoops on the lower unit.
He said it runs fine now. Goodluck
What part number water inlet screens are installed, or if you don't have the number, measure how far each one sticks out from the gearcase wall at the top part of the screen.
Are there any pickups, trim-tabs, thru-hull fittings, strakes or any thing protruding within 17" of either side of the motor's centerline, either on the transom or under the hull?
What software revision is in the EMM, it will be on the engine report if the tech gave you one?
Ask the tech to hook up a length of clear line from the top of the EMM water cooling fitting and route it out the trim pan mounted trim switch panel holes so you can watch the flow while at speed. Run at all speeds and look for air or exhaust bubbles going through the hose. There shouldn't be any excessive bubbling. If so, the motor is getting aerated cooling water from somewhere.
Has the dealer techs been in contact with the dealer hot line with the factory? You can call customer service at 847-689-7090 to see what they have to say.
__________________ ----------------
*... personally possessing more tools than talent !
__________________________________________________ _
I had a similar problem with one of my 250s. It ended up being a clogged water line that connects to the computer on the back of the engine. There is a sharp bend in the hose just before it enters the computer and in this bend was a load of crap I sucked up in shallow water.
I don't think the engine was ever really overheating but the lack of flow through that sensor was tripping an overheat alarm.
Didn't we had a thread exactly like this a few weeks a go ,I get the feeling that I was reading the same thread over again ,I had to look at every single time on every post to make sure , I remember that guy swapped the lower units ,I think it was the way the water pump was installed ,the metal housing of the water pump was either from another motor or was placed a little different ,I'm not sure just trying to read back from my memory which is going south .
You can purchase temperature tapes that are designed to be used in shipping. Attach one to each cylinder, the EMM, etc. and see what is getting hot. Is the motor still under warranty?
I had a very similar problem with my 250 ETEC. If I were you since you're getting good water psi, I would swap fuel lines, and see if the GPH, or temp problems follows the fuel line.
Have you tried running without the T-stats in? Do that just to be sure you can run cool. If it still heats up you have a serious flow problem, but still have good water psi.
My problem ended up being a twisted rubber grommet in the water pump. I had the lower units off 5 times probably looking for it.
Other things I checked were:
Powerhead gasket.
The elbow on the back of the motor that bleeds water to cool the exhaust.
The computer coolant water outlet. (ScarabChris' post)
Swap the temp sensors from your port to starboard motors.
I also swapped my lower units to isolate the problem. Hope you find it before it comes to this.
One last thing I did was put a heavy grease on the pickup that the water pump slides over. I also used the same grease on the mating surface between the water pump SS plate and the Lower unit. There was a bit of corrosion under the paint, I scraped it down before putting the grease on.
Talked to my buddy about the repair.They put a softer spring in the poppet valve and changed the water intakes scoops on the lower unit.
He said it runs fine now. Goodluck
thanks for the input - i will send that along to the mechanics, i assume i can get the 7lb poppet valve spring through the dealer? they already installed the bigger scoops.
"
Note to Doug: In my research it appeared that there is a nagging problem with the sensitivity of the ETEC big blocks and over temping, which is why BRP tossed the immediate fix of the bigger intakes and 10 lb to 7 lb spring change on the blow by valve. So, is that what fixed my overall problem? Have to look at history, and there were no over temps before i purchased the motor and most likely the changed routine on how the motor was rinsed was the culprit in this particular case which was directly initiated by the mis-located O-ring. However, i think there may be a change in the water pump volume/design on the big ETEC's upcoming in the future as i think the sensitivity is an issue, and based on the charts Kamie supplied me, i should have been good to go with the pressure i had.
Gotta tell you though, the motor ran like a kitten with her belly being rubbed in high gear today!!
Tom. the upper portal is my exhaust, the lower is the water output, and that is the insert i remove to insert a hose to flush the motor.
Dave, you are the man when it comes to manuals, dang, how do you come up with all them! Anyhow, not sure how you do, but it is truly apprecaited!! "
Duf
duf attached the following image:
[37.53Kb]
thanks for the input - i will send this to the mechanics for testing
I had a very similar problem with my 250 ETEC. If I were you since you're getting good water psi, I would swap fuel lines, and see if the GPH, or temp problems follows the fuel line.
Have you tried running without the T-stats in? Do that just to be sure you can run cool. If it still heats up you have a serious flow problem, but still have good water psi.
My problem ended up being a twisted rubber grommet in the water pump. I had the lower units off 5 times probably looking for it.
Other things I checked were:
Powerhead gasket.
The elbow on the back of the motor that bleeds water to cool the exhaust.
The computer coolant water outlet. (ScarabChris' post)
Swap the temp sensors from your port to starboard motors.
I also swapped my lower units to isolate the problem. Hope you find it before it comes to this.
One last thing I did was put a heavy grease on the pickup that the water pump slides over. I also used the same grease on the mating surface between the water pump SS plate and the Lower unit. There was a bit of corrosion under the paint, I scraped it down before putting the grease on.
another suggestion to go straight to my mechanical experts - will double check all of these items and get back with you.
What part number water inlet screens are installed, or if you don't have the number, measure how far each one sticks out from the gearcase wall at the top part of the screen.
Are there any pickups, trim-tabs, thru-hull fittings, strakes or any thing protruding within 17" of either side of the motor's centerline, either on the transom or under the hull?
What software revision is in the EMM, it will be on the engine report if the tech gave you one?
Ask the tech to hook up a length of clear line from the top of the EMM water cooling fitting and route it out the trim pan mounted trim switch panel holes so you can watch the flow while at speed. Run at all speeds and look for air or exhaust bubbles going through the hose. There shouldn't be any excessive bubbling. If so, the motor is getting aerated cooling water from somewhere.
Has the dealer techs been in contact with the dealer hot line with the factory? You can call customer service at 847-689-7090 to see what they have to say.
will have to do some research on the part numbers, but they are the "big ones", and we had already switched from the standard ones to the medium ones. the local evinrude factory guru had the big intakes installed on the inboard side of both motors. this made no difference under way.
there are lifting strakes several feet forward, and 1 raw water intake, in the "questionable" area you mentioned. both transom mounted transducers have been removed. none of these items in the questionable area are new, we had over 300 hrs of trouble free use prior to this issue, with everything installed as it is now.
will get software number from the tech
i heard about some testing with clear tubes, but it was not done under way - will need to try this test on the next boat ride.
the techs have worn out the evinrude support line, along with me, and have irritated a couple of the guys @ 800 number, they have been very little help, as we are outside of the factory 3 year warranty. we are getting the brush off. i have called repeatedly, been assured that someone would call me back, and never recieved any calls. they did send the local factory guru, who said to adjust the toe, install the big scoops, and remove the transducers. none of it made any difference.
below your post is one from SEA HAWK -- sounds like it might hit the nail on the head. we brought the boat in for several problems, but this problem appeared after the first round of repairs where we replaced the water pumps. the pump on this motor has been replaced 2 times, since this nightmare started, but perhaps the issue is related to a spacer or something minor out of allignment with the pump housing? i have no clue what i am looking at, so would not know, but, maybe..............................????????
You can purchase temperature tapes that are designed to be used in shipping. Attach one to each cylinder, the EMM, etc. and see what is getting hot. Is the motor still under warranty?
motor is now cover by the extended warranty, not brp. where do i get the tape?
I had a very similar problem with my 250 ETEC. If I were you since you're getting good water psi, I would swap fuel lines, and see if the GPH, or temp problems follows the fuel line.
Have you tried running without the T-stats in? Do that just to be sure you can run cool. If it still heats up you have a serious flow problem, but still have good water psi.
My problem ended up being a twisted rubber grommet in the water pump. I had the lower units off 5 times probably looking for it.
Other things I checked were:
Powerhead gasket.
The elbow on the back of the motor that bleeds water to cool the exhaust.
The computer coolant water outlet. (ScarabChris' post)
Swap the temp sensors from your port to starboard motors.
I also swapped my lower units to isolate the problem. Hope you find it before it comes to this.
One last thing I did was put a heavy grease on the pickup that the water pump slides over. I also used the same grease on the mating surface between the water pump SS plate and the Lower unit. There was a bit of corrosion under the paint, I scraped it down before putting the grease on.
all sound like excellent suggestions for my mechanical wizards - will pass them along
Don't forget Scarb Chris's either - Opti's run in shallow water around here will get crap in the compressor line and throw an alarm at idle. I would think the EMM would too - actually that would be the first thing I would check with all the other stuff done already - its something odd and thats just odd enough.
thnaks for the suggestions. already have pressure gauges. they read the same on both engines. there is plenty of pressure when it overheats, same as the other engine.
we brought the boat in for several problems, but this problem appeared after the first round of repairs where we replaced the water pumps. the pump on this motor has been replaced 2 times
Does the motor have at least 4 psi at dead idle? 3 is the absolute minimum for that motor.
Here is the factory chart for water pressures at various rpms. Does the motor meet or exceed these pressures at the same speeds?
There is a revised service procedure about checking and installing water pumps in the E-TECs. Ask your mechanic to show it to you and to state that they followed the procedure. It is explained in the latest Product Service Update booklet that each dealer was mailed.
__________________ ----------------
*... personally possessing more tools than talent !
__________________________________________________ _
There is a revised service procedure about checking and installing water pumps in the E-TECs. Ask your mechanic to show it to you and to state that they followed the procedure. It is explained in the latest Product Service Update booklet that each dealer was mailed.
i will contact them this morning and follow up on all of these items - thanks for the help
Now I am the technician working on the motor, I understand the frustration but
do not apprectiate the take it somewhere else comment, ive exhuasted many hours into the motor and have full confidence in my ability.
What has been done
New water pump (installed according to bulletin)
New oversized 5007081 intake screens
New (D.I.) thermostats, springs and seats
New o-ring, grommet and spring in the pressure relief valve
New gearcase
Removed head and inspected inside
Removed powerhead , cleaned and inspected adapter and ports
Procedures
Clear line from various ports looking for air ( has air at high speeds)
Swapped gearcases to see if issue followed case
All cooling lines have been pulled off and cleared with wire brush and air
New overboard indicator and o-ring
Checked toe in and out along with motor height
Had transducers removed from hull
When we run motors the diagnostics shows that both heads are getting hot, the emm stays cool so that shows to me it is not a cooling hose issue, It to me is a metal on metal issue, flow in the block. I suggested 4 weeks ago to replace the water tube, the motors are very very salty, The tube is out of round a bit and up the tube looks ratty.
When the motors were brought to me the water pumps were in wrong, the thermostats and pressure relief valve had never been inspected or replaced along with other issues.
Software 3030344
Oil- XD 50 getting plenty of oil pressure
this morning i condensed all the suggestions into an email, and sent to my mechanic, his reply is above @ OUTBOARDKILLER. looks like our next step is to replace the internal tube between lower unit and power head (at least an 8hr project) and go for another boat ride.?
does not look like the 7lb spring was tried - does this have something to do with air @ high speed?
we do have air @ high speed- but dont know if the air @ high speed follows the lower unit.
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