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Old 07-25-2009, 08:25 PM
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Default 4 stroke vs. 2stroke kicker

Ive decided that I could use a 6 to 10 hp 2 stroke kicker but found a 4 stroke w/ 4 hp. Is HP equal on 2 vs. 4s. I have a 19' wa.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:44 PM
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Hp is the same 2 or 4-stroke, but weight isn't. Figure a 2 is almost half of a 4. On a 19' a 10hp 4-stoke will be a bit big. You have to figure around 100 lbs. This is like almost like having an extra on one side of your transom. Do you have trim tabs?

A 6, would probably be good. 10 hp 2-stroke is much lighter, so would also be ok. If your using it for trolling however, the fumes from a 2-stoke may get to you, as there isn't enough wind at trolling speeds to disperse the fumes. A 4-hp is a little low, but depends on your main purpose. for trolling may be fine, as an auxiliary, may be a bit small, i.e. it won't get you to hull speed. And usually you want a bit more than the minimum necessary anyway. I think I'd look for for around a 6hp 4-stroke personally.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:06 PM
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I assume your big motor is either a 4-stroke or oil-injected so your fuel supply is straight gas. If that's the case, you'd be better off with a 4-stroke since it can use fuel straight from you tank rather than having to add oil needed for a 2-stroke.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:19 PM
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I assume your big motor is either a 4-stroke or oil-injected so your fuel supply is straight gas. If that's the case, you'd be better off with a 4-stroke since it can use fuel straight from you tank rather than having to add oil needed for a 2-stroke.
That's probably true even if his main motor is a 2-stroke. Small 2-stokes won't have a mixing pump, so you'll have to pre-mix oil with gas and carry a separate tank. With a 4-stroke, you can just plumb it to your main tank. Just get a 2-way "tank selector valve". Then just flip the valve when you want to change motors. A 6 hp 4 stroke will probably burn 1/2 gph @6mph on your boat. You probably have a 60-80 gallon tank? Heck you could troll for days (or even a week)
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:36 PM
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I do have a115 4 stroke. I really only plan the kicker for emergencies. want the smallest that I can get away with but if I have to bring an extra tank for a 2 stroker I can handle that.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:31 AM
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Even though you may plan to use it only for emergency, i'd still recommend a Yami T8 (4s) with power tilt and installed on fixed bracket. Installed on a fixed bracket will give you superior dependability when you need it and greatly reduce maintenance on an item rarely used (rusted, corroded and stuck tilting bracket). You have to really take care of the engine if it has manual tilt as it can bounce and bend the tilt stop pin or something else so i prefer the power tilt as it will make life much easier (not easy for a gal or smaller person to pull and tilt a motor that is about 100 pounds hanging past the stern as it may be them in an emergency). a pull start should be fine.
A 4 HP or 6 Hp engine may be ok if conditions are flat calm, but definitely will prove too weak if there are winds more than 15 knots--you will struggle to keep boat in a straight heading if head or broadside winds. You'll end up calling Seatow instead of limping in on the kicker. on my previous 22' WA i had a yami T9.9 (manual start, tiller, manual tilt) which pushed the boat to 7 mph max, on the 20' alum. river jet boat, I had a Yami T8 (elec start, power tilt, tiller {much easier to use with elec start and tilt!}) this motor pushed the boat to a max of 5 mph.
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:27 AM
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Is the 4S/4hp motor 1 cylinder? If it is I think youll find it vibrates, though on a 19' boat I don't know if that will make a diffrence. Had a 5hp/1 cylinder. motor on a small skiff that vibrated so much I sold it and moved up to a 8hp/2 cylinder engine, night and day diffrence.
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:12 AM
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I agree with BC22. I just put a Yamaha "High Thrust" T8 on a Seaswirl 2101 wa. 25 inch shaft, electric start and electric tilt. I thought I would never use it except for emergencies. With the 25 inch shaft you can mount it on the back deck to one side and it still gets clear water further up the V on the side. There is little chance of a following sea drowning it out mounted up high either. Also, its very easy to reach mounted high. I've had a number of outboard "drop mounts" on sailboats and that stinks.

Last week was the first outing with it mounted up. We were following 4 boats through the Intercoastal just below Jekyll Island, GA on the way to FL. The channel hasn't been dredged in some time and all the boats bottomed out mid-channel (it was dead low tide). My 200 Yamaha 4s mushed into the mud and I cut it off right away. Sitting there looking at the other boats I got to thinking the T8 prop is above the vee bottom of the hull. It would push in clear water where the main engine was sucking mud 2 feet below the vee bottom. I raised the 200, started the T8 and off we went back to deep water. It was so easy to lower, crank and run with the tilt and electric start I started using it for the no wake zones.

It runs 5.2 mph (GPS) at half throttle and 5.8 mph wide open throttle on this hull. Gas flow on Garmin Fuel Flow meter is 0 at 5.2 and 0 at WOT. (Not enough flow to activate the sensor.) The motor is $2,300 at Ed's marine (model T8DTX8) but I paid an extra 150 buying it at Low Country Marine in Walterboro, SC. Ed's wanted a wire transfer of the full amount in advance while Low Country took the order on the phone with a credit card. (I don't wire money to anybody in this day and time.)

I joined http://www.seastriper.com for the information on installing a kicker. They have about the most complete postings with photos on how to mount one. While primarily for Seaswirls, the information is universal and can be used on any other boat. There are even pictures and writeups on linking the steering between the motors and putting a second remote control for the kicker in the cockpit. It so easy to use as it is I don't see the need unless you are trying to dock with the kicker.
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:22 AM
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this is the 4 stroke. I dont know much about them. and this is my boat. (in dry dock, to remove bottom paint.)


Last edited by fordfisher; 07-26-2009 at 05:33 AM. Reason: another pic
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:05 AM
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This is not as trival of a problem as it may seem at first.

1) Carrying a seperate tank for a 2-stroke is fine but you'll have to keep it fresh and find somewhere to dump the gas/oil mixture at least once a year and you'll have a limited fuel supply when the emergency hits. And, if you're like me, the moment you let your guard down and the gas spoils is when the big motor will poop out on you.

2) Even on 19', 6 or 10 hp might not be enough to push against the wind or current. - you'd be burning gas just to stay still.

3) The standard prop on the kicker will likely need to be changed out for a low-speed, high-thrust prop. It may be hard to fund such a prop for a small kicker.

Last edited by Rubberhead; 07-26-2009 at 06:08 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:08 AM
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I see a few comments about waves, but where are you using the boat. I think that a 6hp with a high thrust prop will push a 19' boat through seas up to around 6' (maybe more). I would guess in that boat, your not in those conditions often?

I agree with the points bc22's and 10Penny are making, but think a 19' boat is probably a lot lighter than a 21' or 22' boat. I haven't tried it, but think 100lbs on the transom seems like it may have a significant effect on handling. Especially without trim tabs, which many 19' boats don't have.

A 6hp 4-stroke will only weight about 55-60lbs. I think you'll be ok if you use a high quality lift bracket, and make sure to install a backing plate . Make sure to get one with enough lift so you do not need to tilt it much. Of course, I'm assuming your not running 40+ in big seas,

Just a thought, probably a bit less expensive too.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:11 AM
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Not a fan of any lift brackets.
First season on my 22' WA i had the HD Fulton bracket with the T9.9 and in less than one season it broke (i'd even talked directly to the Fulton rep that confidently re-assured me it would work well with my "heavy" T9.9). It was replaced with Garelick HD bracket. Garelick fared much better but showed significant wear after 2 seasons and trailering. On that boat, i could see the bracket's lifespan to be about 5 years. Noticed that on any bracket, the kicker bounced pretty good in ruff seas and bumpy trailering--enough to make the butt pucker and wonder if the next big bump will be the one to send the kicker and bracket into the deep or dragging behind the trailer by the fuel lines. I was going to replace the tilt bracket and go to a fixed unit but ended up selling the boat first.
The T9.9 did cause my 22' WA to list at rest and run on a list unless i moved and balanced the load aboard. Eventually i installed trim tabs to counter the list in season two.
On the 20' Jet boat, surprisingly adding the T8 didn't upset the boat's balance much--i believe this is due to the boat's much flatter deadrise compared to a deep v boat. The T8 was on the same model Garelick bracket as the 22' WA. I had bought it already had the bracket on, but again i was looking into welding on a fixed bracket on to the swim grid but sold the boat this past June.

PS. Just like being underpowered with the main engine, underpowered with a kicker sucks too.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:45 AM
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bc22 the Fulton is light duty. Which bc22, youd want the offshore 4-stroke bracket. Expect to pay $325-$450 depending on how much lift you need. Avoid the little $150-$200 class brackets.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:52 AM
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Also, I do not believe you are supposed leave the "normal duty" motor on the brackets when trailering. Not sure about the heavy duty brackets
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:47 AM
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Yes, i've read that too. But a ruff day on the water is harder on a bracket than trailering. AND > Kicker systems are usually, like mine, tied in permanently with power and fuel lines plumbed--no one i know takes their kicker off to trailer. These were not "normal duty" brackets, i specifically hunted down the HD brackets that had specs rated to carry the torque and weight of a 4s kicker. The only kicker tilt bracket i later saw that stands a chance to last over 10 years is an OMC HD power tilt bracket ($+1200).

If you boat in inside and protected waters or venture offshore only on picturesque days, a bracket is fine, but for an avid angler that heads out short of a storm warning, fixed is the way to go for the long term solution.

Both Fulton and Garelick brackets cost over $350 each, these were not frail budget units.

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Also, I do not believe you are supposed leave the "normal duty" motor on the brackets when trailering. Not sure about the heavy duty brackets
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Last edited by bc22; 07-30-2009 at 12:49 AM. Reason: added stuff
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