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Old 07-21-2009, 09:13 AM
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Default Off Road Diesel vs Home Heating Oil #2

Interesting thoughts:

I started to investigate Off Road Diesel vs Home Heatling Oil as an alternative to fuel my boat after someone I know told me about using heating oil as an alternative to paying for marina supplied fuel. Turns out home heating oil is really just off-road diesel (or was a few years ago)

I called 2 local fuel supply companies and they confirmed they supply the same product for home heating oil, farmer's with diesel equipment and even companies running diesel generators.

I called a 3rd local and much larger fuel supply and was told off road diesel has a slightly lower sulfate level and it's now illegal to run home heating oil #2 in an offroad diesel engine. This company told me that off-road diesel supplied 3 years ago is now home heating oil, and the new off-road diesel has slightly lower sulfure in the blend. He also told me that the home heating oil is actually better than off-road diesel because the sulfure acts as a lubricant.

My guess is that the 2 smaller local fuel supply companies I checked with first must be selling only off-road diesel to home heating and offroad vehicle use to reduce their actual tank and truck needs.


Any thoughts on this?
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:17 AM
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Here in Vermont my marina sells the red dyed off road diesel and the current price is 2.50 per gallon
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:47 AM
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Something I've noticed in the past month.....Diesel at the gas station is now about $0.10 more than regular unleaded. For along time now its been significantly higher...i.e. $0.80 more than regualr unleaded. Anyone know whats up with this?
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:52 AM
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It's called supply and demand
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:05 PM
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Here is what I think you will find. It is my understanding that the only enforcement/test is done by DOT typically at weigh stations etc and they would be looking for dyed fuel. The EPA is tasked with enforcement standards for sulfate levels and would only test suppliers but as long as it is dyed I don't see how they could figure out if it were for heating oil or for off road fuel.

If you can get it go with heating oil as it has better lubercating properties.
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:07 PM
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My uncle ran heating oil in his truck for 6 months before he got caught. It was not a profitable situation for him. lol.

You can use this stuff in a diesel engine if you want to. Remember though, it does not have the same quality control as vehicle fuel. It may contain inter-mix or not be filterred as well as you'd like. In some places it is legal for off-road use and some it isn't.

If you use it on your boat, check and change your filters often. Remember to add stabilisers or winter additives, or only use it in the warmer months.

Good luck!
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:40 PM
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I once read that home heating oil specifications allow a higher wax content that, if present, will cause a problem with engine injectors. Off road diesel doesn't allow the higher wax content so if your supplier actually gives you off road as home heating fuel, you should be all right with your engine. Injectors need clean fuel so regular filter changes is mandatory anyway.
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:53 PM
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Use home heating oil at your financial peril - the NJ EPA (and USCG) will periodically, especially if they get a tip, test your fuel for sulfur content - home heating oil has 10x the amount of off-road diesel, with is low sulfur - road diesel is ulsd. It is a big fine if you are out of compliance.
If you want to save some money, find someone who delivers off-road diesel - most areas have a supplier that will deliver to boats.
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Old 07-21-2009, 01:53 PM
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Justin, what are the names of the three places you called? Me and my buddy have been getting deliveries from Dover Oil for close to ten years now for both our boats. He has Cats and I had Detroit's in the last boat and Yanmars in this one. We have combined 5000+ hours in the past 10 years without a single fuel related problem. He charters and uses quite a bit more than me. We don't notice any difference in soot or filters clogging or anything. I am curious as to what companies you talked to????
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Old 07-21-2009, 02:01 PM
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What is actually funny is the one larger fuel dealer I called near me was selling offroad diesel for 2.01 a gallon and he said his home heating oil was 4 cents different (didn't ask if it was 4 cents more or less)

The cost difference is surely not worth any kind of fine (4 cents).

I think my marina was 2.39 or something last I looked and is actually supplied by the same big local company I called (ironic). In any event, in order for me to have the supplier deliver to my boat, i'd have to find a private dock since my marina says 'no fueling except at fuel dock'. Not worth loosing getting kicked out of the marina for a few bucks at the fuel pump.
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Old 07-21-2009, 02:06 PM
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offshorebri,
I called k.w. rastall in North Brunswick along with 2 other smaller dealers that won't deliver to the coast anyway.

Are you running offroad diesel or fuel oil?

Justin
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_NJ View Post
What is actually funny is the one larger fuel dealer I called near me was selling offroad diesel for 2.01 a gallon and he said his home heating oil was 4 cents different (didn't ask if it was 4 cents more or less)

The cost difference is surely not worth any kind of fine (4 cents).

I think my marina was 2.39 or something last I looked and is actually supplied by the same big local company I called (ironic). In any event, in order for me to have the supplier deliver to my boat, i'd have to find a private dock since my marina says 'no fueling except at fuel dock'. Not worth loosing getting kicked out of the marina for a few bucks at the fuel pump.
I need to buy my fuel in NJ. At the local marina last week diesel was $3.19 and my last delivery was $2.69 here on Long Island.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_NJ View Post
offshorebri,
I called k.w. rastall in North Brunswick along with 2 other smaller dealers that won't deliver to the coast anyway.

Are you running offroad diesel or fuel oil?

Justin
off-road
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:07 PM
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Justin....diesel fuel.....it's all about the sulphur content. Mechanically fuel injected engines like the sulphur for lubrication of the pump. The engines can and do run fine on low sulphur diesel fuel which is all mostly sold @ marinas.

The newer electronically controlled marine diesels run fine on low sulphur fuel also.

For you and others it's saving $.10-$.30 a gallon for "non-red-dyed" fuel vs getting nabbed with "non-red" (home heating oil) fuel!!!$$$$$$$$

I run a fleet of 10 diesel trucks. Every so often an IRS (of all agencies) will come by my distribution center early in the a.m. and will check with a special paper whether or not I'm burning "on road/on water red diesel" (taxed) or (non-taxed so much) home heating oil....it's all #2 fuel whatever color.
Burn what you want, roll or not roll the dice.
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:27 PM
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Default In south Jersey today I fueled my PU $2.23 a gal legal on road diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane View Post
Here in Vermont my marina sells the red dyed off road diesel and the current price is 2.50 per gallon
Finally diesel is .10 cents cheaper than reg no lead gas.On the other fuels? I had run a criticle path construction crew in a sunoco refinery near me that was going low sulfur. The sulfur is a natural lubricant that they had to replace with something else after removing it. The parafin wax is usually removed and used for other purposses?{besides painting on canvas to water proof it in IRAQ by locals for tents}As witnessed by one of my sons when he was there in 2003. The parafin becomes a problem in cold winters on diesels that are shut down for too long? The sulfur is mainly used for road asphalt.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:38 AM
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Rebriel -
On Road diesel is not dyed red - at least last time I stopped at a regular gas station to buy a few gallons to do filter changes.

Are you sure home heating oil is not RED?

Justin
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_NJ View Post
Rebriel -
On Road diesel is not dyed red - at least last time I stopped at a regular gas station to buy a few gallons to do filter changes.

Are you sure home heating oil is not RED?

Justin
I just went and looked in the 5 gal yellow jug I have in the back of my PU and it has a slight red tint! not dyed red. The refineries did not chose to go low sulfur the ted and barney group made them!
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truepursuit View Post
Something I've noticed in the past month.....Diesel at the gas station is now about $0.10 more than regular unleaded. For along time now its been significantly higher...i.e. $0.80 more than regualr unleaded. Anyone know whats up with this?
The reason as I understand it is in january of 2008 the new low sulfur/low particulate diesel became mandatory as regulated by the EPA, so the higher cost to refine this new low particulate/sulfur diesel has raised the cost of diesel fuel as compared to regular(87) gas.


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Old 07-22-2009, 05:24 AM
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In the off season I work for an oil dealer.
In some parts of the Northeast home heating oil is still the high sulphur (HS) variety (up to 3000ppm sulphur) up until 12/31/2007 it was legal to burn this stuff in non-road, locomotive, or marine engines (called NRLM by the EPA) and it was the only fuel available at the commercial docks in my area.
Today in my area HS heating oil is still available for home heating uses only. the legal sulphur content for NRLM engines is no greater than 500ppm (this is called low sulphur diesel LSD) so burnign the HS heating oil is illegal. Fuel dealers can be held liable for selling HS fuel that they know is being used in combustion engines.
On road diesel is required to have a sulphur content not to exceed 15ppm (this is called ultra low sulphur diesel ULSD).
In my area LSD is not available even at the terminals, only HS heating oil and ULSD can be purchased. For some large marine customers we blend HS heating oil and ULSD at a ration of 1 part HS to 6 parts ULSD to get a fual that meets the LSd criterion.

Removing all the sulphur from diesel is what has caused the price to change in relation to gasoline, also the expanded use of ethanol fuels has reduced the demand for gasoline lowering its price slightly.

The Color of the fuel has no relation to the Sulphr content, it is only for tax purposes. Red is for excise tax exemt uses and white is for taxable purposes. An experianced fuel supplied can tell the differenc beween ULSD and HS by looking at it, there is a noticabel differenc the the opacity of the fuel.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:42 AM
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Default Not in south jersey

Quote:
Originally Posted by truepursuit View Post
Something I've noticed in the past month.....Diesel at the gas station is now about $0.10 more than regular unleaded. For along time now its been significantly higher...i.e. $0.80 more than regualr unleaded. Anyone know whats up with this?
diesel at the pump is cheaper than regular gasoline in SJ Infact its about .10 cents cheaper.
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