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I don't know who keeps waking him up, but I wish they would just let him sleep. Now he's indignant that I don't chime in on a thread about freezing water jacket gaskets.
I live in the tropics. Lowest temp here we have seen in four years was 63 degrees. Once. Three winters back. I am just now trying to work my way through my first Z300 problems.
What the hell experience would I have with freezing water jacket gaskets???
I am not talking about crankcase intake cooling water jackets or its hoses freezing.
I am talking about the possibility of the crankcase intake water jackets corroding allowing water to be sprayed into the crankcase while running.
The Z300 is the only one to have crankcase intake cooling.
You could plug the water hoses and it would be like a Z250 without intake cooling.
Probably ,The worst area would probably be the bottom of the water jackets where salt water sedimentation settles.
It could be the crankcase intake corroded and not the covers.It only takes a pin hole.
Finally you need to change your web name "Gringo" to "El lloriqueo Gringo."
__________________ FL Upper Keys,33 foot World Cat w controlled upper bridge,Yam F250 w mech shift and throttles
Last edited by conehead39; 08-03-2009 at 11:15 AM.
Gringo, from your blog I know that you did not necessarily look for this exact setup but given your location and the areas lack of parts/mechanics/etc would something more simplistic or basic be a better choice? An inboard or two common place outboards with everything avaliable locally.
You may have a very common rig, I do not know just asking. I have a friend from El Salvador who said that if you could not fix it or make it you did without before he moved to the US. They got pretty damn creative without "professionals" around to fix everything for them.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good
of its victim may be the most oppressive." ~ C.S.Lewis
Gringo, from your blog I know that you did not necessarily look for this exact setup but given your location and the areas lack of parts/mechanics/etc would something more simplistic or basic be a better choice? An inboard or two common place outboards with everything avaliable locally.
You may have a very common rig, I do not know just asking. I have a friend from El Salvador who said that if you could not fix it or make it you did without before he moved to the US.
You are totally right. This is NOT a common rig here. Single outboards are pretty common on smaller boats, but twins are very popular. And this, to my knowledge, is the only 300 HPDI in the entire country.
I have been thinking about what I am going to do if this motor has some severe compression issues. I would much prefer a couple of twins, after what I have learned over the past four years.
Interesting question, perhaps for another thread, but what pair of twins would people consider the most simple and reliable available? A couple of carbed Yamaha 150 two strokes? Two OX66's?
I am not ruling that out. Don't get me wrong, I love this motor when it's running, but it might just be a bit too tempermental for living in a place like this. I am really not interested in spending half the year waiting for parts and troubleshooting. We have been down now for some weeks with this little episode. It could get really ugly if we were downwind of the islands when the motor quit. Lets see, 50 miles to Gt. Inagua at a drift speed of two knots...
I think 300 hp is about the min for this boat, so a couple 200's would be really slick. Or 175's, but I sure hear ya on simple and reliable.
I have been sitting here all morning waiting, new compression gauge and tool box in hand, to go check out the HPDI. BUT one after another, today we have had these rolling through:
(looking from my back door, with the boat in the marina just off to the left out of the frame)
and I am presently driving a Land Rover Defender 90 without a top. And there are seven miles of dirt road (3 miles of pavement) between here and that marina 900 yards away...
Gringo, I have not read thru the entire thread to find out whether you ever truly learned how the engine was ingesting water, but in case you did not figure it out, let me share what I just went through with a 2 stroke 115 Tohatsu.
The previous owner had just had the engine rebuilt when I got it. The shop said the exhaust manifold gasket failed, allowing water to get sucked in through the exhaust.
After I ran the motor and let it sit, the bottom cylinder stuck. We freed it up and simply could not figure out what was going on, but supected water getting into the bottom cylinder(s). Top cylinders were fine.
After checking every source of water we could imagine, we pulled the power head. The exhaust pipe was loose. The bolts holding to to the manifold had backed out part way and rusted in place, leaving about a 1/4" gap.
The spent cooling water from the engine (which flows out thru the exhaust) was getting sucked back into the bottom cylinders thru the gap.
New exhaust manifold, gasket and presto!
I am sure that was what caused the engine to fail originally, and the shop that rebuilt it never found the true problem.
It was such an obscure problem, and your symptoms seemed similar--water getting in the lowest cylinders. Thought it might help you.
In any case, hope you get back on the water one way or another.
__________________ ________________________________________
I AM the 53%.
________________________________________
Caveman,Thanks for the tip. I am keeping track of every idea that comes in on this. Including coneheads thoughts on intake manifold pinholes.
I am still learning, and am pretty low on the curve, but one thing that is puzzling me is this. On these two strokes, I understand how the reeds work as intake valves. Simple.
But what works as an exhaust valve? What seals the exhaust up so that the fuel/air compression can happen?
I have been looking at the drawings in the tech manual for it, but it's just not clear to me, yet, how that works. The rotted-away poppit valve ( water pressure valve) cover let water spew around all inside the lower cowling, but I am not seeing really any indication of water going into the air intakes. How else could it get inside the cylinder?
I do have this photo, looking down onto the motor after I removed the exterior exhaust cover:
I did not see any ways that water could have gotten from here into the cylinders. When the water control valve gets forced open, it is by water pressure in this chamber.
But look again, if you will, at the photo of the lower air intakes:
I could certainly be wrong, but I am just not seeing any indication that this butterfly valve has been wet repeatedly with sea water.
gringo you sure do attract more than your share of internet stalkers...
keep the story updated when you find out more
Boy, ain't THAT the truth.
Today's been frustrating. It's blowing rain horizontally at the house right now. No way do I want to be on the back of my boat with the engine opened up in this.
But what works as an exhaust valve? What seals the exhaust up so that the fuel/air compression can happen?
The piston itself and the rings move above the exhaust valve/hole so that the compression/power stroke takes place and then uncovers it on the down stroke to allow the exhaust gases to leave the cylinder.
I know that this is simplified and there are different styles but it has been a while since I "fix" a 2 stroke.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good
of its victim may be the most oppressive." ~ C.S.Lewis
El lloriqueo barata GRINGO ...............I don't know why I am sharing this information with you.
I must be real stupid. I talked today from an ex Yamaha Tech rep now mechanic for South FL.
He said he has seen 3 engines with corroded leaking intake on Z300.
Generally occurs on higher time SW engines which have not been flushed. The crud builds up in the intake water jackets and eventually corrodes thru.
however he said that the Z 300 had/has a bulletin on changing the cowling/air flow,especially in reverse,creating a vacuum,sucking in water.It is NOT a recall =life threatening.Generally the bottom 2 cylinders are affected. It is dealer performed and takes about 8 hours. The power head has to come off.It also reduces the amount of reverse rpm.
He said some S FL owners would reverse heavily and momentarily hydraulic lock the engines lower cylinders. The engine stalls but the water drains out fairly quick.
He said you can use a silver nitrate 3.4% solution from Post Apple Scientific, N.E. PA.
If any salt water gets on the plugs the solution will make the plug electrode turn pink.
Also, he said that CONTENDER was the worst boat for occurrence, because of the transom well design holding water/spray.
Finally, I don't know if you ever flush your engine ( not running) with the flush hose.
Since it looks like you are not a frequent user ( 150 hrs). Some of your photos really show some corrosion. I don't know your salt water chemical makeup. but I know flamingos like high alkaline salt water,especially in the shallow lagoons.
Don't flaunt us anymore about your LandRover ,it is a Tata from India.. Hey mon ,you are in the islands of the Caribbean.
Generally nothing high tech occurs there; from Bimini to Trinidad. I have been to just about all of them,plus every country south of the Rio Grande . you might see a YDS yamaha computer testing devise in San Juan,PR. Probably no where else.You can buy a winky blinky light counting device for faults; much cheaper than YDS Cd software and laptop.
The PN is in your service manual plus how to use it.
__________________ FL Upper Keys,33 foot World Cat w controlled upper bridge,Yam F250 w mech shift and throttles
Last edited by conehead39; 08-03-2009 at 04:50 PM.
[quote=conehead39;2441689]Gringo ,
Have you bought the Yamaha Service Manual?
I am 70 years old. I still have my 1986 and 1992 Service Manuals for 200 HP two strokes. If you have NOT bought one ,then you are too cheap and want this forum to answer every little thing that comes along.
I doubt we will ever get anything from you as a contributor,only sponging.
Ah, so any water that gets into the exhaust can get directly into the cylinder?
Exactly. In the case of my Tohatsu, the problem was lower down. It had a flat horizonal "plate" for lack of a better word between the power head and the foot of the motor. This was called the exhaust manifold. The exhaust pipe bolted to this plate. The spent cooling water from the engine normally exited down the outside of this exhaust pipe and mixed with the exhaust lower down in the foot. Because there was a crack up near the base of the power head, this cooling water could be sucked back into the engine while the cylinder was open during its normal operation.
I cannot explain it completely, but there is a point in the stroke of a 2 stroke when a part of the cylinder wall is open--this is the exhaust port--and evidently there is some back flow which can carry water if it is available, back into the cylinder. In my case, due to the location of the breach, only the lowest cylnder got the water.
I know it seems a little implausible, but that is definitely what was going on with that motor.
Caveman
__________________ ________________________________________
I AM the 53%.
________________________________________
That makes sense. Thanks. My only personal experience in tearing a two stroke down to the rings, wrist pins, and crank insert bearings was rebuilding 250 cc Japanese dirt bikes a long time ago. They were pretty simple motors. Not a lot of copper to them in those days. I wonder if any engineer in Yamaha ever sat in a bar and figured out how many meters of electrical wire there are in one of these suckers...
Conehead, I actually hear what you are saying. If I got a compression issue that serious I will probably reconsider whether I want to take on a rebuild myself. Certainly if it looks like a design weakness that I can't change, it'll be a hard question. If it's related to the motor height, then I gotta think about whether it's worth trying to fix it myself. Alternatives for me do include sending the power head to the US for a professional rebuild.
I understand what you are saying. The incident with the freezing water jacket in Michigan and the as yet unsolved issues with water in my cylinders could both be related to a damaged or corroded intake manifold. Right?
And you thought I wasn't listening? It's just difficult to communicate with you, for some reason. Hey, I am trying.
And saying that I don't wanna drive in the rain squalls cause my truck doesn't have a top on it is not exactly flaunting it.
And both of these were built in Solihull, West Midlands, England, years before the Hindu's bought em out. All that info is in the VIDs. I think they were Ford owned in '05,were't they? Land Rover and Jaguar?...
Ex tech rep wanted to know if the bottom cylinders were scored.
We won't know until the compression check is done.Heads are still on.
Is there any light slapping noise when running ,especially idle cold when first started(piston slap).Sounds a little like a diesel idling.
It would be nice to have to a tool called a boroscope. It works similar the new medical operation scopes but a lot cheaper.Then you could look down thru the spark plug hole at the cylinders.Just go over to the local hospital that does colonoscopies and borrow their scope
I think you and I know the answer. WHAT SCOPE, similar to the Yamaha Diagnostic Software.
If it checks fairly good compression on the lower cylinders. I would even continue to run it with 20% lower psi than the others. The min pressure is 81 psi ref p5-2. It only has 6.2:1 compression ratio and runs on 87 octane see yamaha specs in overview below
If unbalanced from others then it says you can squirt a small amount of oil in the spark plug hole.
BTW they are still making the 300 HPDI. It is used on bass boats calle ....Z max 2 - 300 hp
with short shaft.
Ex tech rep wanted to know if the bottom cylinders were scored.
We won't know until the compression check is done.Heads are still on.
Is there any light slapping noise when running ,especially idle cold when first started(piston slap).Sounds a little like a diesel idling.
It would be nice to have to a tool called a boroscope. It works similar the new medical operation scopes but a lot cheaper.Then you could look down thru the spark plug hole at the cylinders.Just go over to the local hospital that does colonoscopies and borrow their scope
I think you and I know the answer. WHAT SCOPE, similar to the Yamaha Diagnostic Software.
If it checks fairly good compression on the lower cylinders. I would even continue to run it with 20% lower psi than the others. The min pressure is 81 psi ref p5-2.
If unbalanced from others then it says you can squirt a small amount of oil in the spark plug hole.
BTW they are still making the 300 HPDI. It is used on bass boats called VZ 300
with short shaft.
2007 was the last production year for the 25" shaft 300 HPDI. Yes....they still make the V-max 20" shaft version for flats and bass boats.
__________________ 2006 Skeeter ZX24 Bay
2006 Yamaha 300 HPDI
2010 Ford F-150 FX4 5.4
Team: EAT-SLEEP-FISH---~ <)))))<
Trying hard to become a 1%er www.ramseydoor.com www.raynoroverheaddoor.com
Local hospital? There are some clinics here. Nothing like a hospital. People that need hospitals get on a jet and fly to Miami or Nassau. Depending on their druthers.
Wasn't a boroscope kinda a fiber optic thing? I seem to remember those. I thought I saw something like that for examining the rifling and lands in firearm barrels...
There might be some way to get an image of the inside of a cylinder though. Lemme think on that one. I know I have seen video cams that small.
It doesn't sound unusual at all to me idling. Of course these things idle on four cylinders, two top and two bottom Andy tells me. It fires right up, idles okay, and in gear, shoves us out of the marina as always. Popped up on plane pretty quick with the four blade I noticed. Went up to 3900 RPM, at max throttle. Stayed there for a few minutes, maybe four or five minutes. Then it sputtered and bogged it's way down to 3300 and then 3200, where it stayed. So I brought the throttle back til it dropped to 3000 and ran it back up to 3200 and drove it home that way. No suspicious noises that I know of. Tell ya what, I shot some video of the motor at 3900, and can listen to the audio on that, but I doubt these ears would pick up anyting subtle. I was doing that primarily for the anti vent plate discussion.
I've just read every page of this post and visited your blog.
I am curious, what did your house cost? What does it cost to live there (minus the boat)? Are you retired or working from there? Is health care pretty much like your boat repair?
