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Random Quote: Men don't buy boats........Wives let 'em.
But if the compression check reveals that you have valve or ring problems, I would be looking to Yamaha for a new power head based on a bad assembly in the first place.
Did a dealer set up the motor that low to the water?
Is it possible that this motor is just too short for this boat?
Well, being an optimist, i am hoping that I can fix whatever happened and get it going again.
I can do that. Heck yeah.
Yikes, that motor is low in the water. From looking at the pics you posted earlier the motor appears to have the correct shaft length; it’s just buried in the water. I will be very surprised, when you are able to get the boat hauled and take some measurements, if you find you cannot raise the motor all the way up.
The Rev4 is a good prop for Contenders because it is a stern lifting prop. If you were only able to turn 5100 before with the 3-blade 19, you are probably over propped at 19p. We run our boat slightly over propped because it’s more efficient, but can still turn 5400 light. With a single, I would prefer to be slightly under propped so that the boat would remain responsive at lower speeds even when loaded down. If you can find a 17p around there, I would give it a try.
Unfortunately, until you get the motor healthy these numbers mean very little to you. You may have been experiencing power loss for a long time due to the salt water intrusion and never were aware. With your limited resources on the island, it's going to be an adventure....
Gringo,
that shot looks like the motor is low, but you really need to take a picture and a look at it with the motor trimmed to a normal trim angle for a proper check running at a normal to fast cruise. But even as it is trimmed it looks low to me. If you look at propgods.com website I think Ken has a picture in one of his forum on what it should look like - it's worth checking out.
Wow...what a fantastic bit of troubleshooting; and the narrative was like fast paging thru a Michael Crichton novel.....
I have a history servicing sophisticated security systems thru-out the Caribbean...while working on an install in Jamaica, I was ordered to leave and meet a plane chartered for me to fly me to Grand Cayman. There the CitiBank branch manager met me. Their system was down and HAD to be fixed. My assortment of parts did not include the power supply diode I needed....
Off to the local Chinese owned hardware store and purchased a radio.
Disassembled and unsoldered the power supply rectifier and diode bridge. Found the two leads I needed, soldered them up, and I shared your heart pity pat as the system regained life...this would work until the right part arrived from the mainland...
Ahh yes, to succeed where others fear to tread....
Gringo,
that shot looks like the motor is low, but you really need to take a picture and a look at it with the motor trimmed to a normal trim angle for a proper check running at a normal to fast cruise. But even as it is trimmed it looks low to me. If you look at propgods.com website I think Ken has a picture in one of his forum on what it should look like - it's worth checking out.
Problems with that are that at just over 3000 RPM max motor speed, I really can't ever get to a normal trim angle. I am trimming to keep the motor out of the water, mostly. It doesn't really change it much though.
I did go to Prop Gods website, looked at a bunch of posts, but did not see the photo you were talking about.
After all, "There are 2,349 posts in 479 topics in 3 forums"
Do you remember which thread you saw the photo in, or some word I could use for a Search?
Gringo , maybe I missed it in this blog.
With all the other blogs you have replied to,it seems to me you need to leave Grand Turk (TCI). Now octane etc.
Have you bought a Yamaha service manual.
Where did you buy this engine. The Caribbean Yamaha engines have a different serial number. They are NOT under warranty in US,Canada.
If you have a N Amer serial number you may get warranty service in the Caribbean,with permission from Kennesaw ,GA
We are not on Grand Turk. The motor was purchased, I am sure, by the original owner in Florida. I believe he told me he went for some extended warranty deal. However, there are no qualified dealers in this country who have ever even seen a 300 HPDI, and I wouldn't even let them work on my 150 carbed two stroke when I had it. They have a lot of experience with the smaller two strokes, the 85's especially. Lots and lots of those, here. They swap parts back and forth on these conch boats continuously. Not HPDIs. There are larger Yamaha's too. But not HPDIs.
I don't really worry myself about warranty. It's useless. Yamaha is not going to send me free parts to install, and I am not going to let the local Yamaha guys touch it, basically.
Problems with that are that at just over 3000 RPM max motor speed, I really can't ever get to a normal trim angle. I am trimming to keep the motor out of the water, mostly. It doesn't really change it much though.
I did go to Prop Gods website, looked at a bunch of posts, but did not see the photo you were talking about.
After all, "There are 2,349 posts in 479 topics in 3 forums"
Do you remember which thread you saw the photo in, or some word I could use for a Search?
Wow, thanks for the link, Sea Hawk. Yeah, I would say our HPDI is definitely a couple holes too low, based upon that. That won't fix the problem it's having right now, but it's going to be raised up before we start using it again.
Gringo ,
Have you bought the Yamaha Service Manual?
I am 70 years old. I still have my 1986 and 1992 Service Manuals for 200 HP two strokes. If you have NOT bought one ,then you are too cheap and want this forum to answer every little thing that comes along.
I doubt we will ever get anything from you as a contributor,only sponging.
Now face up to it , you are living in the Turks Caicos.There will probably NEVER be a high tech shop located there.I know I have been to Provo 20 times and GT 10 times.. You either learn how to do it yourself like I did 20 years ago by reading and re-reading the service manual.When you have a service manual then you can refer to certain pages,drawings,etc.
you should have bought a boat with twin engines.One for safety reasons because you can't rely on the local govt to find you when stranded.
A 300 HPDI , most Yamaha mechanics in the USA have NEVER worked on one.
Second, you can swap parts back and forth, like with two 150 Hp units.
If you decide to buy two new EFI Yamaha engines ,they will come with Command Link gages. They allow you to pull trouble/fault codes out on their gages.You will still need a service manual to deal with each fault code.
Gringo needs to YDS the engine(Yamaha diagnostic software) or at least run it with a mechanical fuel pressure gauge at the VST to verify it maintains 50psi of fuel pressure under load.........and go from there with the information obtained from the two tests. A compression or leak down test of the cylinders would be nice as well. No sense in trying to fix something if its to far gone (bad cylinder-s) Always start with the basics.
The reason its running low on rpms is not because of the prop dimensions and not because the engine is mounted to low. Gringo mentioned that it has ran at 5000 rpms at WOT in the past. Something isnt right with the engine, but to be quite frank..... trying to figure it out with a paperclip and screwdriver is going to be.........well..........kind of tough.
No sense in beating Gringo up on what he should have done, or he "should have" set it up this way or that way. He has a problem, he lives in an area that has no qualified Yamaha service, so I don't think its a matter of being "cheap" (even though Gringo probably is a tight wad)
He has a Z300 service manual....I'm pretty sure about that.
__________________ Andy Munao Our new parts site: www.simyamaha.com Yamaha Outboard Sales, Parts and Service 1-800-213-3323 parts@shipyardisland.com Click the logo to see our THT Vendor Forum
Gringo needs to YDS the engine(Yamaha diagnostic software) or at least run it with a mechanical fuel pressure gauge at the VST to verify it maintains 50psi of fuel pressure under load.........and go from there with the information obtained from the two tests. A compression or leak down test of the cylinders would be nice as well. No sense in trying to fix something if its to far gone (bad cylinder-s) Always start with the basics.
The reason its running low on rpms is not because of the prop dimensions and not because the engine is mounted to low. Gringo mentioned that it has ran at 5000 rpms at WOT in the past. Something isnt right with the engine, but to be quite frank..... trying to figure it out with a paperclip and screwdriver is going to be.........well..........kind of tough.
No sense in beating Gringo up on what he should have done, or he "should have" set it up this way or that way. He has a problem, he lives in an area that has no qualified Yamaha service, so I don't think its a matter of being "cheap" (even though Gringo probably is a tight wad)
He has a Z300 service manual....I'm pretty sure about that.
I feel bad for gringo, I've read all the posts, and he's made it further than I probably have. I blame the environmental whackos for this crap. If this were an Evinurde VRO or similar carbed engine....none of this would be happening. We've made it so that every engine is so damn complicated that the poor folks living in areas where technology is not present can't fix their engines, and for those of us that do live in areas that do, it's so damn expensive.....We are victims of our own demise.....Gringo...good luck, I hope it works out for you.....
Gringo ,
Have you bought the Yamaha Service Manual?
I am 70 years old. I still have my 1986 and 1992 Service Manuals for 200 HP two strokes. If you have NOT bought one ,then you are too cheap and want this forum to answer every little thing that comes along.
I doubt we will ever get anything from you as a contributor,only sponging.
Now face up to it , you are living in the Turks Caicos.There will probably NEVER be a high tech shop located there.I know I have been to Provo 20 times and GT 10 times.. You either learn how to do it yourself like I did 20 years ago by reading and re-reading the service manual.When you have a service manual then you can refer to certain pages,drawings,etc.
you should have bought a boat with twin engines.One for safety reasons because you can't rely on the local govt to find you when stranded.
A 300 HPDI , most Yamaha mechanics in the USA have NEVER worked on one.
Second, you can swap parts back and forth, like with two 150 Hp units.
If you decide to buy two new EFI Yamaha engines ,they will come with Command Link gages. They allow you to pull trouble/fault codes out on their gages.You will still need a service manual to deal with each fault code.
Can you show me ONE single thing useful in that entire post?
What do 20 year old service manuals for different engines have to do with a three year old Yamaha? You maybe should get someone else to read the thread to you. Slowly. Or the one where Boats.net ripped me off by charging me for UPS and then mailing the parts I bought from them .Despite my instructions NOT to use the mail. They are off my supplier list. From now on I buy from SIM.
What do however many times you have been to Grand Turk twenty years ago have to do with outboard issues and troubleshooting in Provideniciales? Come on. Give us a hint. ???
What do twin engines have to do with my HPDI issues? Your suggestion that I should just go buy two engines of your choosing...well I will be polite and just say you can roll that up and store it someplace dark.
I realize you expect the government to come bail you out every time you get stranded, and seem to think I feel the same way. Well we differ there, too. I don't WANT the government to come save me. The less government in my life, the more I like it.
And what has the government of the TCI got to do with my experiences troublshooting this outboard motor?
Which really brings me to the question, since you don't know anything about HPDIs, and have nothing to contribute to the discussion , why did you read the thread in the first place? Kinda sad to see you losing it at only 70, but I guess it happens.
Now, for those who DO know what they are talking about:
We managed to find a compression guage. NAPA here had ONE in stock. They had it in stock because it has a cracked glass on the gauge, so they kindly gave us $ 20 off. I should have the compression checked by tomorrow mid morning. Been reading the tech manual, and talking to Andy, and that's the next logical step. If I see that if the compression is okay then I need to start working my way through some sensors and the coils. That would be happy things. And at that point I would probably need the YDS. Would be kinda dumb to buy it until I know for sure that this motor is going to stay with me.
Sorry I didnt see this thread sooner. That poppet valve in the rear is a common problem with corrosion (esp. in southern waters, higher salinity). They become a bi-yearly affair with most of my customers. No real fix to stop it from happening.
I did not read pages 2-7 so forgive my ignorance to the problem. If you ingested enough water to foul your plugs multiple times, you have two items that need to be addresses. First thing you have in track. Compression test. If you saw rust/corrosion on your plugs, imagine what the rings had/have stuck to them. If the numbers are withing 10% of each other, all good. These motors are very finicky. More than a 10-15% difference of compression in cylinders and they wont run well at all.
Second item- while the boat is out of the water, you need to drop the gear case. When these engines misfire, you are sending un burnt fuel into the exhaust/muffler. This fuel then ignites in the expansion chamber (muffler), and causes a flame front to occur. This can melt the entire exhaust housing. I have seen this multiple times, all because of fouled plugs.
PM me if you have any more questions so I can give you my email. I mostly just read off this site, never really post.
Thanks, Cory. All this is really valuable info to me. You didn't miss much by not reading all the post threads...in a nutshell I found and replaced the poppit valve, housing, spring, grommet, exhaust cover and gasket. Then the motor wouldn't run and I got into troubleshooting to the point where I found out no fuel coming out of the VST. Traced that to a connector that I must have failed to properly re-connect when I put the ECM back on the motor. I swapped a bent three blade for a good four blade prop, same pitch, slightly less diameter.
That brings us up to now, motor starts and idles fine, but won't get past low 3,000 RPM range.
Gonna go check compression after my second cup of coffee.
Gringo, the pictures above of the evinrudes I think is what was on propgods website, but even if not, it shows the same thing and what a great shot of the 350 hp Vrods running.
Yep, that photo says it all. Don't really need to make a lot of measurements. I have already talked to the marina about lifting the motor for me. They say they have to haul it out. I know better, but thought I would check with them first.
They have one of those fork trucks with the LOOOOOONG forks that they use to lift 22 foot boats out of the water and carry around. I am pretty sure they could have used that to the lift eyes on the yamaha to pick it up a couple inches, but they want to sell me travel lift time $$$$$.
I'll pull the boat out on the trailer and do it myself after I get it running right.
