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Old 07-26-2009, 10:53 AM
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When I say hp pump,the vst pump is the one I am talking about

Hey I just remembered...Go to Yamaha website. You can download a service manual from there

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Old 07-26-2009, 12:11 PM
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Great idea, and I tried. Oh, I have the owners manual, but I was momentarily excited about the idea of downloading the tech/maintenance manual...

alas:

"
Residents of which countries can purchase manuals from this website?
Currently, we sell manuals to the residents of the United States only.
If you are outside this area please try a local Yamaha dealer in your country. "

a-holes. There is ONE HPDI 300 in this country. And I own it. And it's broken. And the Yamaha dealer here isn't worth a phone call.

In fact, if I caught the local Yamaha guy on my boat I would call the police to see what they were stealing.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:12 PM
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Gringo,

From what I can see in the pics you posted of the engine on the bracket, your engine is mounted all the way down. The bolts coming through the bracket are bolted through the top holes on the engine. Looking at the pics you posted showing the relationship between the engine and the hull, you appear to be a good bit low. Unless there is something prohibiting you from moving the engine up that I can not see in the pics, I would move the engine up several holes.

There is a analytical way to approach this, but it would require the boat to be on the trailer for measurements. Refer to this thread http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-...ance-help.html for good information on how to correctly address this issue on a Contender.

I would also be interested in seeing the compression on this engine once you get it up and running. I'm curious to see if the saltwater intrusion has caused any detrimental effects on its performance.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:16 PM
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Since my last post I have looked back thru someof my old stuff.
Iboats
Marine Doctor
Google hpdi vst tank
2 key things I remembered O ring for tnk put in freezer if you have to reuse to shrink
when filling vst may want to bleed of the air with the schraeder valve as
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:52 PM
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why would the boat need to be on the trailer to measure where the plate is relative to the extended keel line? I can do that underwater.
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Old 07-26-2009, 01:25 PM
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For whatever reason I've been skipping over this thread for the last two weeks but I just read it from the first post and would caution you on buying a jack plate from the recommendations made here. There might be people with enough experience with your boat to tell from the photos that your engine is too low but I can't and you should measure as has been suggested and / or photograph your anti-ventilation ( often incorrectly referred to as an anti-cavitation) plate while running. Most jack plates will cantilever your engine farther aft which will increase your problem, I would suggest a bracket that was deeper and with more flotation. I've posted about brackets like yours before ( I'll see if I can find the thread) and suggested that I consider them a poor design as they expose too much of the leg to water flow as the boat climbs onto step. With your, can-do, get it done, and get it done right attitude, I believe you could build your own flotation bracket that incorporated the bracket that you have.
There are at least two other people on this forum that share my views on bracket designs and they're both manufacturing stock brackets( I build a custom one every once in a while), maybe they'll weigh in.
Sorry, I can't help with your fuel problem .
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringo View Post
why would the boat need to be on the trailer to measure where the plate is relative to the extended keel line? I can do that underwater.
HaHa, Gringo I'm sure you can measure it under water. Normally, these measurements are taken from some datum, usually the ground, to ensure accuracy. I would also believe it would be easier to raise the engine with the boat on the trailer after you take your measurements. Yes, in the water you could press a long straight edge up against the hull at the keel to extend the water plane aft to the engine and take your measurement. That may require more than one set of hands, but that may be easier for you to do.

I also agree with Commuter with regard to the additional setback that a jack plate would implement. Once you obtain the measurements and know where you stand, I would just raise the engine to the extents that your current setup, with regard to the measurements, allows.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
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aha! "repriming the fuel system'!! I like the sound of that. Sounds like what I might need. But of course there is no 300 HPDI manual in this nation. I have the only 300 HPDI here, and I don't have the manual.

Time for some more online searching, I guess.

Thanks
Go on google and you can get a manual for the 300 HPDI. I did and got it downloaded electronicly, cost $13.95. Paid for itself when I replaced the filters in my VST.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:03 PM
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I couldn't find any newer than 2005, so far, but I got a friend working on it now...
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:31 PM
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If you need to raise the outboard it is easy to do with it on the trailer. With the motor tilted down,put a block of wood under skeg to fill the gap between the ground, take the two top bolts off, loosen the two bottom ones a little with someone cranking the trailer jack stand up, the back of boat goes down and motor is sliding up until it lines up with another hole for top bolts. Then re insert the top bolts and tighten down all four.
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:59 AM
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If I do that, I would not be using the top two holes in the Yamaha any more as they are at the top holes on the bracket already. Is that still okay, to mount a motor that heavy without using the top round holes in it?
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:42 PM
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Oboy. I fixed it.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:10 PM
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Oboy. I fixed it.
Hey Gringo that's not fair ,every time I get a chance to go to THT the first thing I do is look for your thread, since you started it ,so come on open up and give us details as you have done before ,oh wait I just realized that you are out running the boat ,so do it when you get back asap. Thanks .
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:59 PM
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No, actually I am sitting here watching the whitecaps, and listening to the Marine VHF radio I installed in the house a month or so back. Right now, sounds like another Haitian sloop sank off West Caicos. We can hear the USCG pilots down from Miami and from the Bahamas assisting local Marine Police. They said at one time there were about 60 people standing on a reef in waist deep water, more floating. I know they have recovered three bodies so far, plus dozens of live ones. The chop is a good two to three feet, so the ones clinging to the reef are getting beat up and cut up by the coral. There will be sharks.

Kinda neat having the VHF in the house. With the antenna on the roof, that puts it about sixty feet above sea level. We can talk to boats all over the place.

I idled the HPDI for about half an hour after getting it runing today. I want calmer seas before taking it out for some trials. If this motor quits on me, I don't really need that whole experience of troubleshooting it while rocking and rolling. I think it's okay, but won't know til I can open it up. In gear.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:25 PM
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Glad you are back up and running. What was done to correct the fuel problem?
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:23 PM
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Bump........

How did you fix the fuel problem ?
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:07 PM
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I give up! What did you do to get it fixed? Please let us know!!!!
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:16 PM
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Oh, okay. Y'all want details. Obviously I'm not a technician, but I manage to muddle through.. here's how that went.

I didn't get to the boat this weekend. Other duties kept me busy Saturday, and we had a rainy Sunday. But I thought about it. And planned.

I made some clip leads long to reach from the HPDI VST pump to the console. This is so I could read the voltage while standing at the controls. I knew that if I had 12 volts across those terminals for a few seconds after turning the ignition key on, and the pump didn't run, I was screwed. See, that pump is about $ 700. Figure another $75 to get a replacement flown down here, plus another 11% (import duty...) I was looking at $850 if the pump was toast. And it's gonna be three or four days, minimum, to even get it here. Hell, I wouldn't have had any fingernails left by then.

I was prepared to tear it apart to see who makes the electric motor in it. I gotta think that the cost in that thing is in machining to make an electric pump intrinsically safe enough to run continuously while immersed in gasoline. Yamaha can't afford to build Molotov cocktails and sell them as outboards....but I bet the motor itself is probably only a hundred bucks, somewhere in the world. Probably China.

If you read this thread, you might have noticed that I have been real curious as to what turns the electric pump off after those few seconds when the ignition is first turned on. Talking with Andy at SIM, he explained to me that the ECM ( which I am sure stands for Expensive Computer Motherthumper) turns it off if it senses no RPMs. And it runs all the time when the motor is running and there are RPMs and the ECM is happy.

Okay, that explains it, but I am still really interested in this. Because lets face it, the best I can hope for is that something OTHER than the pump or the ECM has failed. I don't suspect the ECM, cause lots of other stuff on the motor is working. So I am praying for something simple. Something not starting at $ 850....

Then this morning, just as I was about to head down to the boat with my DVM, clip leads, and tools in hand, a kind soul who will remain nameless ( unless he says it's okay to name him) emailed me some of the tech manual pages for the 200/250 HPDI. All RIGHT!! Information! Input! I had no manual until this point. Been educating myself as I went. And that's slow. ( And I can't whine about either the teacher, or the student..)

However, once I had some documentation, It took about three minutes to find this page:



See item 3 there? That gave me hope! A fuel pump relay! Hallelujah. A slim hope starts to grow...now, if I can just figure out where this thingy is located, it gives me something to check if I don't have that voltage on the pump with the key on. That makes sense, right?
So, continuing onward, I find this drawing next:



And lordy lordy, there it is again. Item 3, Fuel Pump Relay. And the news is even better. This thing is located under the plate ( Yamaha calls it a bracket) that the ECM is mounted to, under the ignition coils. I HATE taking all this stuff apart with my motor hanging out over a lot of salt water, (I have already been diving once for a screwdriver) but I will do it.

A little more digging, now that I know for the first time that such a thing as a Fuel Pump Relay even exists, and I find the procedure to check it:



"Heck" ( I figger) "I can do that stuff." I mean, it's not rocket science, right? measure some continuity or something. At this point I am hoping, hoping, hoping, that I have a bad relay. Whereas ten minutes before, I didn't even know I had a relay at all. And I am still assuming this relay is for that VST pump. I mean, as has been pointed out here by others, this motor is FULL of pumps. All over the place.

So, down to the boat I go. Fist full of tools and a heart full of hope. And a plan. First of course, is the pre-op prep. Take the cover off:



That's layer one. There are several layers to this. Then take the cover for the flywheel and etc. off, exposing all them shiny expensive thangs. Really makes me wish I was doing this in a shop, or at least over dry pavement.

This is the part I gotta check out first: the electric pump inside the VST. The arrows point to the two terminals where it gets it's power.



I had this entire VST totally apart Friday. The pump, float and needle valve are all in there. And a bitch of an 0-ring gasket to re-use.

If I got power and no pump, it's looking bleak. So I clip on my homemade clip leads ( one's yellow cause I didn't have any red wire)



and run them up to the console, where I hook in a DVM, cross my fingers, take a deep breath, and turn the ignition to the "ON" position.....and I see:



Can you see those four beautiful zeros on that DVM? No voltage. I have never been so happy to see a lack of voltage in my life. It's probably not the same as sitting in a dead electric chair, but when I saw this I knew there was a chance that this pump was not broken, my heart was doing it's little happy dance in my chest. Things were looking up. Next I had to remove the ignition coil cover, which looks like a big alien robot spider after you disconnect all 12 connectors. More stuff to worry about dropping overboard. The 6 ignition coils are mounted to the plastic cover which thing lifts off, exposing that Expensive Computer Mothermugger..(ECM)

I had the motor tilted up, and am sitting on my transom, so this view is upside down compared to the view in the book. But the "X" I drew on this photo marks the spot underneath which, on the other side of that aluminium plate, on a layer beneath the Expensive Chomper of Money (ECM) in a nest of connectors and as many kilometers of wiring as a set of fine young enthusiastic Japanese engineers could fit into an outboard housing, supposedly resides the fuel pump relay:



So, there I stand with a 10 mm socket in hand, ready to do open heart surgery, when I think I will just feel along that little black cable above and to the left of the X in the photo. I run my fingers along it, under the edge of the plate, and up against a connector. I place my fingers on the outside of the connector, thinking I will just give it a wiggle test, and I hear and feel a sound that makes my entire day.

'click'.

Yep, the connector clicked into place when I wiggled it. Because while I had been thinking "what has changed, what is different since the last time this ran and now", I was not thinking enough. Oh, I well knew I had run the motor, and the fuel system dry because I had the fuel valve shut off. I kept thinking this was what had changed, what had happened. And, yes, it had.

BUT....it was not the only thing. I had also removed this entire plate, Extraterrestrial Confusion Module and all, in order to get to the outer exhaust cover, to replace that and the ruined Water Pressure Valve (Poppet) that started this whole episode in the first place. I had disconnected all of these connectors, and thought that I had reconnected all of them. And somehow, probably because it got stressed during the reinstallation, this one hidden connector had not been seated completely in the socket.

I was so relieved, I didn't go any further. I unclicked it, inspected it for damage, etc, and then re-clicked it. And tugged it. And it was tight. And the Lord said, It Is Good. And I said Hallelujah. And started carefully reinstalling everything I had taken off to get to this point. I went over every connector. I made sure all the little things I had loosened last Thursday, Friday, and this morning were back in place, in their clips, tightened. Finally, I got to that moment where there were no extra screws or bolts to reinstall. I have found that it's a good sign in these things when you have exactly the same number of parts as you started with, and the same number of fasteners as you have things to be bolted. It's not good when these numbers don't match, like when you have run out of screws too early, or even when you think everything is back together and you still have a handful of washers and stuff left over.... Nope. This went carefully back together.

And I pumped the fuel bulb thirteen times for good luck. And mentally reminded the powers that be of what a clean and goodly life I try to live, and I promised to eat all my broccoli if this would just work....and I turned the key.

And fired that mother up.
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Last edited by Gringo; 07-27-2009 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:50 PM
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I have followed this epic adventure from the first page and I have to say I haven't chuckled this much in a while. Thanks for the good read Gringo
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
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If I do that, I would not be using the top two holes in the Yamaha any more as they are at the top holes on the bracket already. Is that still okay, to mount a motor that heavy without using the top round holes in it?
Gringo

(Congrats on the fuel.) To answer this question, yes, that's fine and that's normal when raising beyond the lowest position. Any of the pairs of "round holes" and the bottom bolts in the "sliders." No problem.
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