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Old 07-03-2009, 08:22 AM
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Default Plywood alternative

I am in the process of refurbishing a 1978 Aquasport 246 CCP and I am looking for a ply wood alternative for the floor and the transom. I have done this refurb on a 20 CCP and many other boats, but would like an alternative for the plywood so the new boat will last longer. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Allen
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:26 AM
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Just a sugestion-ck link

http://www.greenwoodproducts.com/xlpanels.htm
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by hatterbee View Post
I am in the process of refurbishing a 1978 Aquasport 246 CCP and I am looking for a ply wood alternative for the floor and the transom. I have done this refurb on a 20 CCP and many other boats, but would like an alternative for the plywood so the new boat will last longer. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Allen
No commercial intended here, just a way that may help you with your decision.
When we began our PRO-LITE series, we were faced with the same question.
Go to www.proliteboats.com
Again, not a commercial here.
Look at the "construction" section, and how we use "COOSA".
I did the photo's and the captions. Kinda brief, but if you want to know more about it, PM me, I'll tell you about our experiance with it. It's all good.
Mike
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:27 AM
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Default Pensky or coosa board. The way.

This is a very dense foam board that in the 3/4 thick sheet is perfect for decks. I know guys that dont glass the underside. Its that strong and water resistant. Its aproximatly $200. a 4x8 sheet. It can hold screws better than plywood. It has glass layers built into the laminate and I believe the foam is mixed with carbon fiber as in milatary specifications. They even use some of this type material in explosion proofing vehichles.If I new where you are from I could tell you where it can be gotten from?
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Old 07-03-2009, 12:47 PM
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Bly I live in Winston Salem NC
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Old 07-03-2009, 01:02 PM
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www.nida-core.com
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:02 AM
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Bly I live in Winston Salem NC
Merrit in pompano FL stocks coosa and Barnegate fiberglass in tuckerton N.J. stocks pensky board. Both of these products are also perfect for transoms either doubled up or just buy their thicker products. The next post suggested Nida core. Yes water will not effect it. heat softens nidacore. meaning hot sun. unless glassed over and under it is not rigid enough like pensky and coosa.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:50 AM
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A few years ago professional boat builder Magazine did a couple comparisons, the first between a composite deck and a plywood deck covered with fiberglass, and second a composite bulkhead and a plywood bulkhead that was tabbed around the perimeter.
With a modest savings in weight the composite deck cost about five times as much as the plywood with a fiberglass overlay ( materials and labor), the difference in the bulkhead was 10 times the cost of the tabbed in plywood for the composite bulkhead with less savings in weight.
I'm a big fan of composite construction ( and build boats without wood) but would like to warn you what the costs of composite construction are.
Done well plywood can provide a good service life at a reasonable cost and weight.
I'm always a little torn (although I do it) when it comes to putting a 50 year deck on a 20 year old boat... its kind of like gold plating a turd.
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commuter boats View Post
A few years ago professional boat builder Magazine did a couple comparisons, the first between a composite deck and a plywood deck covered with fiberglass, and second a composite bulkhead and a plywood bulkhead that was tabbed around the perimeter.
With a modest savings in weight the composite deck cost about five times as much as the plywood with a fiberglass overlay ( materials and labor), the difference in the bulkhead was 10 times the cost of the tabbed in plywood for the composite bulkhead with less savings in weight.
I'm a big fan of composite construction ( and build boats without wood) but would like to warn you what the costs of composite construction are.
Done well plywood can provide a good service life at a reasonable cost and weight.
I'm always a little torn (although I do it) when it comes to putting a 50 year deck on a 20 year old boat... its kind of like gold plating a turd.
Very informed post.
Often the general thinking is the composite construction is a money saving thing. Nothing is farther from the truth, as you correctly point out.
Our models, all PRO-LITE'S, and PRO-LINE 23' and below, we use COOSA transoms, vacuum bag'd. Very expensive. With PRO-LINE, all 24' and above, ten pound foam that we must buy as +/- 13-15 pound in order to recieve a gauranteed ten pound. The expense there far exceeds the cost of COOSA.
Your correct, it's expensive.
Mike
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:31 AM
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Oh man, I miss my 246! I would love to see pictures of the project.

If I remember correctly, isn't there a slight curve in the transom on this hull?
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:33 AM
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I like the Coosa board but its terribly expensive and I don't have a distributer close by. Do a search on classicmako.com and classicaquasport.com. I am redoing my aquasport 17 and might use coosa for the floors.
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:40 AM
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Default Proline this#*

How is a 3/4 sheet of coosa board at $175.aprox. ten times more expensive?$?$ A sheet of 3/4 marine plywood has to be near a $100.? Now glass and resin the underside. Now its even up on cost.How about the cost of using epoxy on wood and polyester on coosa board$?$? On the coosa board no need to even resin coat the underside if you dont want to. Thats the question the guy is asking. He is redoing an old aquasport. He is ripping up an old plywood deck and wants to know of alternatives to wood? Why do we have to ge a history of proline?? Who cares? Stick to what the guy asked. Hes not going to vacuum bag a Floor in a 20+ year old Aqua sport! In fact its imposible to vacuum bag the floor down so you are Irrelavent?
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commuter boats View Post
A few years ago professional boat builder Magazine did a couple comparisons, the first between a composite deck and a plywood deck covered with fiberglass, and second a composite bulkhead and a plywood bulkhead that was tabbed around the perimeter.
With a modest savings in weight the composite deck cost about five times as much as the plywood with a fiberglass overlay ( materials and labor), the difference in the bulkhead was 10 times the cost of the tabbed in plywood for the composite bulkhead with less savings in weight.
I'm a big fan of composite construction ( and build boats without wood) but would like to warn you what the costs of composite construction are.
Done well plywood can provide a good service life at a reasonable cost and weight.
I'm always a little torn (although I do it) when it comes to putting a 50 year deck on a 20 year old boat... its kind of like gold plating a turd.

I believe I read that article. While I don't argue with the math, I think the conclusion should be looked at relative to the big picture.

While some of the composite structure (deck, bulkheads) may be more expensive when built with foam core, it is just one part of the overall cost. On new builds, it is a mere fraction of the total cost. On a repair, it is more as a percentage but still, in my opinion, worth the cost in most cases.

For repairs, the total costs include demolition and preparation for repair, structural repair, and finish work. If the work is done with quality in mind, then the first and last phases of the job can eat up an awful lot of time and money.

Also, rot can occur rather quickly under certain circumstances when using wood, although greenboard does address this issue but at a premium compared to regular plywood. Foam doesn't have rot as an issue.

This is another vote for Penske or Coosa.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bly View Post
How is a 3/4 sheet of coosa board at $175.aprox. ten times more expensive?$?$ A sheet of 3/4 marine plywood has to be near a $100.? Now glass and resin the underside. Now its even up on cost.How about the cost of using epoxy on wood and polyester on coosa board$?$? On the coosa board no need to even resin coat the underside if you dont want to. Thats the question the guy is asking. He is redoing an old aquasport. He is ripping up an old plywood deck and wants to know of alternatives to wood? Why do we have to ge a history of proline?? Who cares? Stick to what the guy asked. Hes not going to vacuum bag a Floor in a 20+ year old Aqua sport! In fact its imposible to vacuum bag the floor down so you are Irrelavent?
My post did not say anything as to "ten X" or whatever. I believe you've put words in my mouth here. I spoke in generalities.
My post was directed to a person who made some quite good points.
My post was to answer a mans question that he publically put out.
There was no commercial.
There was a possible answer to his question.
I'm sorry I've upset so badly.
Did I suggest a floor was vacuum bagged?
I was of the opinion I was talking about a transom.
I sure apologize for upseting you as I've done.
Mike
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:12 AM
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Default And about the transom mike?

If he is replacing the rotted plywood transom of a 1986 aquasport. Hes going to use a saw zaw and prybars. Its uggly but thats the process. He is going to build a new transom . he can pre cut the coosa board to fit. now on a flat floor he can lay a shiney waxed piece of formica gelcoat if he wants? or just start laying up? The coosa type board is so rigid he can use heavy weight to settle the core into the laminates. or I guess if he has access to bagging material peelply and a vacuum pump he could lay it all up at once? But why. because proline does? Who cares? This is the age of redoing old quality proven boats and proline will have to wait. they aint there yet. Stick to answering the subject not advertising the merrits of proline? Mike did you know that penske board was around before coosa board ? Did you know that penske sells more of their product for our military use! than coosa. Usually the standards are higher for govt contracts. Lets get real mike your decks probably use a 80 kg/m2 pvc foam the coosa 3/4 might actually cost a little more than your pvc foam that will not hold screws like coosa ? And it will not absorb water like pvc foam will! if it flexes? Back to the original question also coosa is 75 to 85% of mahogany plywood in weight. so there is enougher reason to use it over wood. Now factor in the moisture possibility of wood?#?# Have a nice day at proline?
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS View Post
I like the Coosa board but its terribly expensive and I don't have a distributer close by. Do a search on classicmako.com and classicaquasport.com. I am redoing my aquasport 17 and might use coosa for the floors.
Do a search for a penske distributor its even better.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:21 AM
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If he is replacing the rotted plywood transom of a 1986 aquasport. Hes going to use a saw zaw and prybars. Its uggly but thats the process. He is going to build a new transom . he can pre cut the coosa board to fit. now on a flat floor he can lay a shiney waxed piece of formica gelcoat if he wants? or just start laying up? The coosa type board is so rigid he can use heavy weight to settle the core into the laminates. or I guess if he has access to bagging material peelply and a vacuum pump he could lay it all up at once? But why. because proline does? Who cares? This is the age of redoing old quality proven boats and proline will have to wait. they aint there yet. Stick to answering the subject not advertising the merrits of proline? Mike did you know that penske board was around before coosa board ? Did you know that penske sells more of their product for our military use! than coosa. Usually the standards are higher for govt contracts. Lets get real mike your decks probably use a 80 kg/m2 pvc foam the coosa 3/4 might actually cost a little more than your pvc foam that will not hold screws like coosa ? And it will not absorb water like pvc foam will! if it flexes? Back to the original question also coosa is 75 to 85% of mahogany plywood in weight. so there is enougher reason to use it over wood. Now factor in the moisture possibility of wood?#?# Have a nice day at proline?
WOW,
Are we having a bad morning?
Had too much coffee?

Your way too much all over the place to attempt any kind of answer.

Calm down some....

Mike
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:36 AM
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Default I am sorry mike.Your right I had a rough night with my 13 year old black lab

I am going fishing on my 40+ year $50.00 233 formula! but it now has a 2005 F225 on it. The flounders are plentiful and only a short trip from the dock. Have a nice day mike and I will leave you with this little tidbit. I do some fiberglass work for one of the few remaining proline dealers in NJ who I think bought one boat this year.I had to fix some damage{accident} on one where you put that crazy raised hull side feature. It was older and dark faded gelcoats. That makes me crazy!
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:42 AM
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I am going fishing on my 40+ year $50.00 233 formula! but it now has a 2005 F225 on it. The flounders are plentiful and only a short trip from the dock. Have a nice day mike and I will leave you with this little tidbit. I do some fiberglass work for one of the few remaining proline dealers in NJ who I think bought one boat this year.I had to fix some damage{accident} on one where you put that crazy raised hull side feature. It was older and dark faded gelcoats. That makes me crazy!
Have a good fouth holiday.
I'm working all weekend, DAMN!
Mike
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:46 AM
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If he is replacing the rotted plywood transom of a 1986 aquasport. Hes going to use a saw zaw and prybars. Its uggly but thats the process. He is going to build a new transom . he can pre cut the coosa board to fit. now on a flat floor he can lay a shiney waxed piece of formica gelcoat if he wants? or just start laying up? The coosa type board is so rigid he can use heavy weight to settle the core into the laminates. or I guess if he has access to bagging material peelply and a vacuum pump he could lay it all up at once? But why. because proline does? Who cares? This is the age of redoing old quality proven boats and proline will have to wait. they aint there yet. Stick to answering the subject not advertising the merrits of proline? Mike did you know that penske board was around before coosa board ? Did you know that penske sells more of their product for our military use! than coosa. Usually the standards are higher for govt contracts. Lets get real mike your decks probably use a 80 kg/m2 pvc foam the coosa 3/4 might actually cost a little more than your pvc foam that will not hold screws like coosa ? And it will not absorb water like pvc foam will! if it flexes? Back to the original question also coosa is 75 to 85% of mahogany plywood in weight. so there is enougher reason to use it over wood. Now factor in the moisture possibility of wood?#?# Have a nice day at proline?
WOW! Lighten up a little. You like Coosa, OK. We get the point. I like hearing the points of other products andhow they use it.
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