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Old 05-07-2004, 07:02 AM
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Default Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

From Powerboats Reports: May 2004

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Suzuki DF250 vs. Yamaha EFI 250

Suzuki’s DF250 shows you the money, with operating costs 35% lower than older two-stroke technology.


We’re long-term testing a DF250 on our 25’ Contender. Captain Alan Herum has logged 57 hours since January.Everyone knows four-stroke outboards are quieter, cleaner, and more fuel-efficient than carbureted or electronically fuel injected two-strokes. But how much more fuel-efficient? How long does the owner of a big four-stroke have to run his boat to make up the higher purchase price?

We wanted to answer these financial questions with hard factual data, so we put a pair of engines to the test on our Contender 25—a 1998 fuel-injected 250-hp two-stroke from Yamaha against a new Suzuki DF250 V-6 four-stroke.

Performance is another gray area in the two- versus four-stroke debate. The four-stroke still carries the “too big, too heavy, too slow” stigma. PBR wanted to find out how our Contender would handle the extra weight—and just how much slower it might be.

How We Tested
We ran a full performance test on the Contender with its two-stroke Yamaha. After gathering all the data, the engine was removed and the boat refitted with a 2004 Suzuki DF250 acquired for long-term testing. Following break-in, we put the Suzuki through the same performance testing. Weather was nearly identical for both tests. The boat itself, gear carried, the tester, and test equipment were identical.

We recorded speed, fuel burn, and noise levels at 500-rpm intervals, starting at 1000 rpm. We checked and recorded boat speed using a pair of WAAS GPS units. Fuel flow readings were taken with a Navman fuel flow meter. Each setting was held constant for at least two minutes to assure accurate fuel flow numbers. Noise levels were measured from the helm using a Radio Shack digital sound level meter. To negate the effect of wind and current, two passes were made in opposite directions and all readings were averaged.

Because these engines have different operating rpm ranges, we also took fuel flow and noise level data at three typical cruising speeds: 20, 25, and 30 knots.

To conduct an operating cost analysis of these two engines, we calculated the money we’d spend on gasoline, oil, and maintenance on an hourly basis at the three cruising speeds. Any operator can get an estimate of their yearly operating cost differential between the two engines by multiplying the hourly cost figure by the number of hours they operate per year. Those who run their boats over 200 hours a season would have to kick in some extra dollars for maintenance items like fuel filters and sacrificial anodes.

The oil dipstick and filter on the DF250 are easily reached.Base costs used in the hourly calculations were $2 per gallon for gasoline, $15 per gallon for two-stroke oil, and $2 each for spark plugs. Oil change costs on the four-stroke were actual costs we incurred—$27. A fixed ratio of 70:1 was used to calculate two-stroke oil usage.

Performance
Both statistical data and subjective impressions led us to the conclusion that Suzuki’s new DF250 four-stroke is equal to or slightly better than the older two-stroke. A review of the performance charts shows both engines are capable of pushing the Contender to nearly 40 knots.

One performance complaint with some of the new four-strokes is “weak holeshot and lack of low-end torque.” That is not the case here; out of the hole performance seemed better with the Suzuki. No attempt was made to quantify this statistically but rather it’s based on our opinion and experience with our test boat. Suzuki uses a substantially larger prop and higher gear ratio on the DF250 than many older and current production outboards. We think this plays a major role in its powerful holeshot and quick acceleration.

Noise levels on the Suzuki are far lower than the Yamaha at 2000 rpm and below. The difference is most evident at idle—Suzuki 60 decibels, Yamaha 69.5 decibels. Sometimes the DF250’s lack of noise at idle requires us to check the gauges just to confirm it’s running. Once the throttle is advanced, the Suzuki’s lower noise level advantage disappears quickly. From 3000 to 5000 rpm, the difference in noise levels between the two is only a decibel or two.

Operating Cost Analysis
Our hourly cost analysis clearly shows the advantage of the four-stroke Suzuki over the fuel-injected Yamaha two-cycle engine. We calculated the cost-per-hour and percentage savings at typical cruising speeds to arrive with an apples-to-apples comparison. Comparing engines at certain designated rpm settings, as is usually done in engine and boat tests, does not give the complete story. As you can see in our charts, the Suzuki operates 100 to 200 rpm higher than the Yamaha to push the Contender at the same speed. A combination of the DF250’s wider total rpm range, larger prop, and higher gear ratio accounts for this. If we compared performance at rpm settings alone, we would overstate the operating cost advantage of the DF250.

The Suzuki has a 28% to 41% cost advantage over the Yamaha in direct hourly operation at our three selected cruising speeds. The chart below translates these percentages into dollars or cost per hour.

Conclusion
Weight remains a concern of many prospective four-stroke buyers, and we were worried too. No more. The Suzuki’s extra 60 pounds made no noticeable difference in performance or handling on the Contender.

Keep in mind, though, each refit or original installation of a four-stroke outboard needs to be considered on an individual basis to make sure the extra engine weight will not be a problem.

We’ve seen the DF250 Suzuki priced below $15,500 on the Internet, putting it in the same purchase price range as a comparable DFI two-stroke and $500 to $1,500 more than EFI engines. With far lower operating costs than a comparable EFI engine, the DF250’s slightly higher purchase price can be offset in as little as a year.



No one is advocating you remove your perfectly good two-stroke and replace it with a four-stroke. (We only did it to gather information on this engine now and more down the line for the long-term test.) But when the time comes for an engine change or when considering power options on a new boat, we do think it’s wise to seriously consider a four-stroke. This test certainly dispels the “too big, too heavy, too slow” notion and bolsters the argument for a four-stroke.

We are generally impressed with the Suzuki DF250 after running it for 57 hours and will publish periodic articles updating this long-term test.

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Old 05-07-2004, 07:15 AM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

A very impressive article testing all the factors into the operating costs for both engines. Maybe in the future they'll put a Yamaha 250 HPDI and then we'll have hard numbers on the cost difference between 4-stroke, HPDI, and EFI engines. Anyway I thought the board would enjoy reading this article.

thanks, Fishing-Rod
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Old 05-07-2004, 07:45 AM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

Good article but of course testing a 4-stroke against a comparable efi two stroke (which you can't even buy any more) is really only of value for someone considering replacing an efi. Most people could have guessed correctly at the out come of this comparision. I think a much more meaningful test would be a Suzuki 250 4 stroke, a Verado 250 and a HPDI 250 run on the same boats. That would be of more value in selecting a new motor.

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Old 05-07-2004, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

As a 140 4 stroke owner (made by Suzuki), I know 1st hand that the new 4 strokes (at least the ones made by Suzuki) are faster out of the hole than 2 strokes. There was a recent thread about this and I raved about how quick and how much power I have. I was basically told that I was wrong and 2 strokes were far more powerful. Well, not so. Someone will probably do the same test again, this time w/ HPDI or whatever, and then everyone will know (4 strokes are great). I guess if I still had a 2 stroke, I'd rave about how good it is, but the fact remains, they suck when trolling w/ a tail wind (almost makes me sick). I do have to admit, I love the smell of 2 strokes in the morning, but I'm ready to quit sniffing them after about 3 seconds.
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Old 05-07-2004, 07:59 AM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

Agreed, a 4-stroke, to 4-stroke, to HPDI, to EFI test would be ideal!
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

I would love to see a test of that quality performed on all of the 4 stroke and DI engines. Think of all the holes in the transome of the test boat after completion
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Old 05-07-2004, 12:37 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

well i'm glad that they're comparing apples to apples (rolls eyes)

a 6 year old 2 stroke engine(with 16 year old technology) compared to the very latest in 4 stroke technology, and it still only gets "Both statistical data and subjective impressions led us to the conclusion that Suzuki’s new DF250 four-stroke is equal to or slightly better than the older two-stroke"?!

i think to make things fair there should be a comparison between a 2004 e-tec 90 and and a 1998 Honda 90.
in this test i doubt you'd be reading about "Both statistical data and subjective impressions led us to the conclusion that Evinrude's new E-tec 90 is equal to or slightly better than the older four-stroke"



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Old 05-07-2004, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

That comparison is void of valuable details. Personally, I don't believe the #'s.

What are the MPG and GPH #'s?
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Old 05-07-2004, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

Interesting test.
I wonder if they would like to replace the OX66 on my boat with a new high tech four-stroke motor, if I'd be willing to do all the testing needed for an article?
Well, I can hope, can't I?
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:07 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

Good call rider1...did you really just compare a 6 yr old efi oil guzzler with a new computer 4 stroke Rod?? I love my Yammy ox66-- but let's do an apples to apples test!!
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:13 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

We might as well do a test comparing the performance in a headsea between an aircraft carrier and a jon boat.
Seriously very interesting article but lets be real here.
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:31 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

First off, there's no reason to doubt the numbers. Powerboat Reports is 100% honest, accepts no advertising, etc. They are the Consumer Reports of the boating world...if they say it, it's true.

Second, if you look at the article as a strict comparo, then you are missing the point. The real point is that re-engineing an older boat with modern 4 strokes doesn't have to mean less performance. With the modern 4 strokes, you get better performance AND better economy, plus they are more environmentally friendly.

Lastly, I too would like to see a direct comparo between modern 2 strokes and 4 strokes. You can get an idea by looking at "performance bulletins" found on many manufacturers' websites...look for one that has the same boat with both types of engines.

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Old 05-07-2004, 10:48 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

I agree with you Harry. I read the article today. I too had to wonder why they didn't pull out
a HPDI to run aginst it.

baypro21 I agree with you too. It's the lacking on other people not doing their reaserch that
they say what they do, or just shoot off their mouth in other words.

The bottom line is Suzuki has a lower gear ratio and thuss swings a bigger prop to get a
better bite on the water. No other 4 stroke does this unless your talking about one that is
in camo White. IE Johnson.
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:49 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

On that 6 year old engine. If it had less then 1000 hrs then it still should run like new. My 90/93 200 Yamaha was at 1700 hrs in 7 years and still hammering out numbers,rpm, mph,mpg like it was new. I took compression test about every 500 hrs and it was always within 2 lbs of new. Pretty suprizing . I ran ring free all the time and decarbon every 500 hrs. I sold it and the boat to another guy that got another 3 years I know of. On the test above they were simply doing a repower and decided to do a test on the old ones to compair. They should of stated the hrs on the ox66's to be clear. I agree, do a real test between all the new "epa" 250's. I do think Suzuki is leading the way on the 4 strokes. They didn't do too bad on there 2 strokes either.
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:47 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

I found the Powerboats Reports article interesting reading so I put it online because I thought it might provide useful information to someone considering repowering their boat. If you go online they have all the charts comparing, mpg, gph, rpms, etc. in a downloadable PDF file, but I couldn't link graphics to it.
Positives: The article compares all the costs in operating both engines on the same boat
Negative: The article doesn't give you the cost comparisions of all the other modern engines (4-stoke, HPDI, E-Tec)

I have a 1998 Yamaha 225 OX66 and no plans on repowering, but the Suzuki has had very impressive reviews and I wonder how long before Yamaha comes out with a 250hp 4-stroke to compete with Suzuki and Mecury.

Reply to drb:
Sorry you didn't like the article but why don't you email Powerboats Reports and vent your frustration toward them about not comparing apples to apples instead of venting it toward me.


Thanks, Fishing-Rod
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Old 05-08-2004, 12:29 AM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

Very interesting article and comparison, I found it enlightening. You do still see many articles pointing out that 4 strokes are slower than 2 strokes and I assume they mean any 2 stroke. Thanks for the info.
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Old 05-08-2004, 09:05 AM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

You know, I agree that it would be interesting to compare more recent engine technologies. Isn't that 25' Contender their personal boat though? My guess is that they decided to repower and figured people would be interested to understand the difference. That's something they could do easily while a massive three-way comparison would be more difficult to organize, particularly since Verados aren't widely available yet. In some respects the article is a bit overdue. Everybody was concerned about performance deficiences in 4 strokes a couple years ago. For the most part that's been laid to rest.

I agree with what everybody's saying. But I just took the article for what it is: a straight up comparison between an old motor with obsolete technology against a new motor with cutting edge technology. It doesn't provide all information somebody might want, but it's an interesting data point regardless.
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Old 05-09-2004, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

There are plenty of modern day comparison tests available on line. Go to Evinrude' s or Yamaha's web sites and you can see them. Most tests are directly from the boat mfg vs the motor company.

http://www.evinrude.com/docs/200/1_US.htm#
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products...ePerf_HPV6.htm
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products...fShoreHDPI.htm

Print all the ones you can find on the boat you want to compare and then sit down and study them real close. Look at what speed you will run that boat. For those that slow troll pay particular attention to gph figures at slow speeds. Don't forget to throw in the cost of 2 stroke oil when you do your math.
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Old 05-09-2004, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

Rod..wasn't venting frustration at you...I suppose you were the conduit to the story. Not frustrated at all in fact, because I now realize the article was accomplishing what Harry mentions.

Thanks for the info
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Old 05-09-2004, 02:49 PM
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Default RE: Real World Test: Suzuki 250 4-stroke vs. Yamaha 250 OX-66

Quote:
Harry Brosofsky - 5/7/2004 9:31 PM First off, there's no reason to doubt the numbers. Powerboat Reports is 100% honest, accepts no advertising, etc. They are the Consumer Reports of the boating world...if they say it, it's true.
IMHO........Dont believe everything you read from Powerboat Reports. In one instance they did a test on a Sea Sport 24 Explorer( a boat line we used to sell). They gave it a very favorable report except for the fuel tank installation. They said they did not like the fuel tank installation because the tanks were mounted under the cockpit sole and the cockpit sole would have to be cut out with a saw*for the tanks to be removed. They even showed a picture of the cockpit in the article. You looked close enough you could see the fasteners that held down*the removeable deck hatches directly over each fuel tank. As you may or may not*know they dont print addmissions to mistakes..... they let the effected boat company respond in the letters section in the back*in the next issue of PBR. To late..... damage is done. I had Sea Sport*customers calling and screaming at me about there tank installations and that they read it*in PB reports so it must be true. I showed them how easy there fuel tanks come out and that PBR was wrong in this case.

I called the PBR editor myself and was told on that paticular Sea Sport*boat test that &quot;we did not actually do it ourselves&quot;. Since Sea Sport was up in Bellingham,WA they did not send one of there own testers there. They hired in his words*a &quot;free-lancer&quot; to do the test.

Some of there PBR articles are interesting, but after that experience with them I do not take there boat tests seriously. Maybe I would if they actually went out*and purchased there own boats instead of asking a dealer or manufacturer*to supply one for testing.*Purchase them...like how Consumers Reports purchases there products for testing.



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