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Old 02-16-2009, 02:55 PM
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Default A quality rant from the Miami show

Every time I go to a show, I am amazed at some of the things I see. Here's some of the things that stood out to me enough to make me take a picture. I'm going to do another thread on wiring. I'm not going to name names here, I am only showing what I saw:

We ought to all know by now that you need a flange on through hulls. You flange it so that any compression of the core does not cause a leak and to distribute the load on the core. You also bond the through hulls to ground and you never, not ever, hang a pump directly on a through hull.

Here's a grainy shot of a flanged through hull so you know what we're talking about and what it should look like:



Here's an example of how not to do it. Unsupported pump, unsupported hoses, what could go wrong here?



If you are worried about crushing the core, why not just hole saw the core and get rid of it. Slop a little resin on the edges and you're done, right?



While we're talking about cores, why not put screws through the bilge into the coring. I've been told by the builder that every screw is sealed with 5200, but look as I might, I never saw any evidence of sealer. I have a better idea. Let's glass in a strip to attach the hoses too and not penetratre the core.



If you are going to use coring for a bulkhead, why not use it in the anchor locker and not tie it to anything. Why is it even there? Are you supposed to tie the bitter end of the anchor line to the pad eye and hope the bulkhead is stronger than the windlass?



Here's one that really got my attention. The very same boat with the screws into the coring is also a good example of how stong and true coring can be - if you do it properly. Here's the bottom of the same boat sitting on a display stand. You'll notice that the strake is straight and true, with no deflection from the point load of the stand.



But just to show there is another way to do it, here's another brand of boat sitting on a stand with even more support area. Yet, the strake and the adjacent bottom has a long curve to it. When the boat is on plane, do you think the bottom will be straight or have a nice hook in it, which slows it down and wastes fuel?



Just to show that it is not just on one side of the boat, here's the opposite side of the same boat, so at least it has the same hook on both sides. FWIW, I asked the builder about it and was told that it was only in the gelcoat.



But that does not tell me why the same model of the same boat sitting right next to it is much straighter. Here's the same strake on an identical boat. Which one do you want to buy? Ever wonder why one boat is slower and uses more fuel than another one just like it?



My wiring rant will follow soon.

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Old 02-16-2009, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

ooh.... this is very, very bad.

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Old 02-16-2009, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Thanks for sharing those, and pointing out the follies. I do believe that the majority of boaters (and builders) have no clue as to what is proper!
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

the 4th pic with the baitwell pump labeled looks very similar to a bilge i saw saturday.....it is a boat everyone loves on here. Thx for educating us kerno. In their defense, i think my boat is the same way.

T
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

We needs names
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Quote:
doctodd - 2/16/2009 2:38 PM

the 4th pic with the baitwell pump labeled looks very similar to a bilge i saw saturday.....it is a boat everyone loves on here. Thx for educating us kerno. In their defense, i think my boat is the same way.
Does your hull have a balsa core? The hull pictured does - and it is my personal opinion is that there is NO defense for drilling scew holes into the coring anywhere, much less in the bilge. They know exactly where the hoses will run. How hard is it to glass in a strip of something to screw into?

But, they are not alone. Here's another unflanged thru hull with a pump on it. But at least it has a bonding wire. It should, considering the hoses you see run to the drive pod on a boat with a price tag of over $400,000. One might question the method of support for those various hoses. Does it matter if they chafe? Do you think the hole in the stiffener that has the hole running through it is sealed?

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Old 02-16-2009, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Quote:
doctodd - 2/16/2009 5:38 PM

the 4th pic with the baitwell pump labeled looks very similar to a bilge i saw saturday.....it is a boat everyone loves on here. Thx for educating us kerno. In their defense, i think my boat is the same way.

T
Looks like the same set up from the Yellowfin pics.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

picture 3 could be that the putty around it is not covering core, but rather just bonding paste- thats how regulator does it with thier finished bilge, there is
no core, its solid glass bottom-paste-finished liner.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

In the picture, you can see what looks like tree rivets or plugs through the liner and two part foam residue around them. That looks, to my eye, like at least a 1/2 inch between the liner and the interior hull surface. That would be a lot of area to fill consistently with bonding putty. I don't see a flange or bonding wire.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

no my boat doesnt have balsa.....it has carbon kevlar.

23Dorado is the winner i think.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Quote:
seastrike - 2/16/2009 3:59 PM

ooh.... this is very, very bad.

I was at the show and I know what boat this is. It's one of the "bullet proof" ones everybody on this web site just loves. And it IS a VERY nice boat. I think this one had multiple outboards (4 strokes) and the identical one that has no flex had a type of inboard.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Quote:
Johnshan - 2/16/2009 5:47 PM

We needs names
I agree.

Does someone want to do a cost comparison?
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Deleted because it is not the boat I assumed it to be.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

The first pic Kerno showed was indeed the proper way to install a below-the-waterline pick up. It, and only it, is called a seacock. Threads at the base of the seacock are standard thread so that the seacock may thread all the way down to the hull and then t/bolted. The threads on top of the seacock are pipe thread, to provide a waterproof mating joint for the tailpiece. This is TRULY the way to do it properly.

Do builders do this? Even some of the high ends, and I mean HIGH ENDS, don't. It is unfortunate, but it is true. Does it compromise the integrity of the installation, or create a potentially hazardous situation? Most likely not. Is it truly the correct method of installation? Probably not also.

Kerno did a great job of sticking his head, and camera, where most potential boat buyers don't even think of looking. My hat is off to him. More customers should do this type of homework, which is not only educational as to the makeup of various boats, but also educational for other consumers to learn about proper boat building techniques on their own.

Well done thread, Kerno!
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

This is the reason that coring should only be used in a non structural area. Is that what boat builders do? NO! In order to make a boat reach speeds of their competition, Who has already copromised his hull to satisfy his customers need for speed! A case in point! Viking Yacht now cores their hull inorder to meet or pass the speeds of their competing boat companies. Core belongs in non structural areas unless you are willing to sacrifice integrity for speed.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:39 PM
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Default RE: A quality rant from the Miami show

Thanks for posting Kern.......good read as usual and interesting finds.

Personally, I don't have a problem with mounting a lightweight plastic pump on a thru-hull seacock.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Quote:
doctodd - 2/16/2009 7:13 PM

no my boat doesnt have balsa.....it has carbon kevlar.

23Dorado is the winner i think.
I could be wrong but the YF pics had the pumps labeled the same way.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Quote:
catch up - 2/16/2009 4:24 PM

Is that picture of a Venture 34? The pick of the hooked and unhooked boat bottom.
No. If it was, I might have had a heart attack on the spot. I own a Venture 34 and I've had it on blocks and stands before. There is NO such flex in the Venture hull.

The boat with the flex and the boat next to it were both outboard powered. There was a third boat in the exhibit with pod drive. It is the one with the unsupported hoses shown in my reply.

Naming the boats only starts a brand war. Besides, you guys don't need names. You've already got two of them figured out and it is not going to take long for someone to hang the name tag on the last one.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

i think i see their commercials on ESPN Outdoors alot......maybe owned by Jose Wej.....?......wow im surprised.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: A quality rant from the Miami show

Saltwater vehicle?
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