Cutting Back Battery Cable???

[commuter boats]

fishfetchr..... Hello, sorry I was part of that derailed, only thing worse than being wrong, is being told you're wrong when you're not.
Having said that I don't have enough information to tell you whether #4 or#2 would be appropriate, I'm pretty sure that #4 would be adequate ( but I don't want to be wrong) so you should find the amperage of your starter and the length of the conductor between the starter in the battery. This measurement must include both the negative and the positive leads.
If it were my boat and I had 6 feet of wire between the battery and the switch / negative bus ( negative plus positive) and the standard cables that came with the engine connecting to the switch / negative bus , I would be comfortable with #4. If your batteries are in the center council and you have 25 feet (12.5 feet positive and 12.5 feet negative) between your switch and your outboard leads, your up close to the upper end of what #2 can do.
Gerald Commuter Boats
Before somebody jumps down my throat, the gentlemen did say it was a 150 hp outboard.

[commuter boats]

Enough posts and we will get all of your questions answered. Most batteries have one 3/8 and 5/16, most of the switches that I ran into are 3/8.
The heavier lugs will crimp better and be more durable.

[rwidman]

marvin177 - 1/17/2009 1:38 AM
He said the cables he's having trouble with are the premade ones. Maybe he just got a bad set?

Or he bought them at Pep Boys.

[jawz]

commuter boats - 1/17/2009 3:12 AM

jawz

Posted 1/16/2009 8:35 PM (#2387617 - in reply to #2387500)
Subject: Re: Cutting Back Battery Cable???
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Posts: 865
Member Since:
2/22/2005

Location: cape may nj
commuter boats - 1/16/2009 9:35 PM

The OP got his answers, seemed to be comfortable with a solution, the thread is thoroughly derailed, so I'm going to continue. All marine grade cable is not tinned!.... tinning is not a requirement of marine grade wire.
I buy tinned wire, I tried to buy crimps from the same manufacture ( hoping to have the same tin on the conductor and the crimp) and I buy the crimping tool from the manufacture of the crimps. Those are things that we can all do to minimize problems.



try again...
-----
don't try this at home....i'm a profesional......
i know it's misspelled-it's a joke...get it???
jim anderson jimmy's marine service llc
a 5 star wrenchin' whore !!!



Jimmy Anderson jimmies marine service LLC..... when somebody posts on here as a professional and then blows a lot of smoke, it makes us all look bad.
There's people on this forum that have little respect for those of us in the marine trades ( is easy to understand why), I don't like being wrong until proven right. Here's a link to the Coast Guard CFRs, the standard that the yacht council refers to, please find reference to tinning.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...83_main_02.tpl

listen,you need to go back to clubbing seals,baby seals too,got it...i do not blow smoke,
i read that link,what exactly is that supposed to be ??? .
tinning of a wire,this protects the wire from corrosion,understand this ??? a marine grade wire is "tinned",it's also a finer strand than automotive copper,is this getting through ?? now,alot of boat mfg's use automotive wire,grady is one of them...if the wire is not tinned,it's not marine grade...

[jethro1]

daveinthewave - 1/16/2009 2:35 PM

Then I stand corrected. What yr is you Aquasport. My uncles was an early 90's model and my Wellcraft is a 95 and both of theses boats have marine grade.

1998.

The wiring may be marine grade but it was not tinned. Where it was practical to do so I simpy rewired the boat using tinned wire and removing almost all of the connectors. Connectors are the weak link to me.

[jethro1]

jawz - 1/17/2009 6:22 AM

listen,you need to go back to clubbing seals,baby seals too,got it...i do not blow smoke,
i read that link,what exactly is that supposed to be ??? any clue there nanook ??? let me explain something to you,i'll type slow,'cause i'm sure you're "slow"...
tinning of a wire,this protects the wire from corrosion,understand this ??? a marine grade wire is "tinned",it's also a finer strand than automotive copper,is this getting through ?? now,alot of boat mfg's use automotive wire,grady is one of them...if the wire is not tinned,it's not marine grade...again,i think you need to go back to huffing hair spray-ok???

Jawz, I think he got you.

The CFR reference (does not apply to outboard powered boats by the way) for conductors (wires) does not specify that they be tinned. Tinning is for corrosion protection. Tinned wires are used in aircraft applications but guess what, it is not "marine" grade wire that is being used.

More strands of copper wire per gauge size simply means more flexibility and perhaps greater fatigue life. The CFR simply says the wire has to be "stranded". There is no mention of the number of strands used per gauge.

Most of us prefer to use wire that is comprised of many strands with those strands being tinned. Is it a requirement of the CFR's? I don't think so. Does it make a wire into "marine" grade? Don't know.

6061 and 7075 aluminum tubing is referred to as "aircraft" grade tubing. What does aircraft grade mean? Yes, it is used in aircraft but also in many other applications.

[jawz]

jethro1 - 1/17/2009 10:16 AM

Jawz, I think he got you.

The CFR reference (does not apply to outboard powered boats by the way) for conductors (wires) does not specify that they be tinned. Tinning is for corrosion protection. Tinned wires are used in aircraft applications but guess what, it is not "marine" grade wire that is being used.

More strands of copper wire per gauge size simply means more flexibility and perhaps greater fatigue life. The CFR simply says the wire has to be "stranded". There is no mention of the number of strands used per gauge.

Most of us prefer to use wire that is comprised of many strands with those strands being tinned. Is it a requirement of the CFR's? I don't think so. Does it make a wire into "marine" grade? Don't know.

6061 and 7075 aluminum tubing is referred to as "aircraft" grade tubing. What does aircraft grade mean? Yes, it is used in aircraft but also in many other applications.

he's talking about coast guard cfr-code of federal regulations...it's not what i'm talking about...that gentleman is confused,other words,he has no clue what he's squawking about...

[commuter boats]

If I'm so damn slow, maybe you can help me out, and show us a description of boat wire from the Coast Guard that requires tinned conductor on all recreational boats, I've showed you a CFR,( you know what a CFR is right?) ( any decent boatbuilder or professional would have the copy of the boating standards manual issued by the United States Department of transportation US Coast Guard) now you show me that I'm wrong.
You previously stated that you were big enough to admit when you're wrong, dude you are so wrong.

[commuter boats]

I reread all your posts, Jimmy's Marine service, maybe you don't understand that boat builders are held to a standard that is actually written down in a manual, and yeah I'm talking about a Coast Guard CFR code of federal regulations, the standard that we are held to.

[jawz]

commuter boats - 1/17/2009 11:34 AM

I reread all your posts, Jimmy's Marine service, maybe you don't understand that boat builders are held to a standard that is actually written down in a manual, and yeah I'm talking about a Coast Guard CFR code of federal regulations, the standard that we are held to.

let me answer this first,then i'm gonna throw up some pics of a late model genmar built boat,it shows exactly what the wire used is...

now,there's alot of builders out there-let me rephrase that,there were alot of boat builders out there,that built a bad product,or a product that didn't really adhere to abyc codes - example,when you see a boat,it's scuppers are under water,and there's no positive shut off to that scupper-this is against abyc codes,but,look around at different boats,you will see scuppers underwater...
back to the issue...marine grade wire is tinned,end of story,if the wire isn't tinned,it's cheap automotive crap...is cheap automotive crap used on boats ??? all the time,is it against any codes,nope...it's just not true marine grade...get it ???

[jawz]

ok...finished up loading the pictures i took to the computer...you're not gonna like this "250 osprey",i'm gonna tell you that in advance...

the wiring is cheap crap automotive wire,the strands are thick and it's not tinned...it's not "marine grade"...

here's the pictures...


first,here's the boat...
it's a genmar built wellcraft...




standard set up-cheap twist lock fuse holders that constantly fail...




here's a feed wire cut,a feed wire was what mr "250 osprey" asked for...




here's a better view of the color of the wire,look close you can see the thick strands...




here's another view...




and yet,another...




this my friends,is true marine grade wire,this is ancor duplex,16g,as you can see in the pictures,the strands are finer and the wire has a silver look,it's tinned...again,this is true marine grade,if wire is not tinned,it's not marine grade...




mr "250 osprey",would you like me to cut and strip any other wires ???

[Mr. Demeanor]

I would. Pull some more and check em...just to be sure. I dont beleive you yet...keep cutting and posting.

[250 Osprey]

That will do. My apologies. We both know that CFR, ABYC, and NMMA do not require tinned wire. Did Wellcraft/Genmar use it? Well, apparently not, at least in that application.

I will be contacting my friend on Monday. The former Engineering manager. See what he has to say. Let you know.

[jawz]

250 Osprey - 1/17/2009 7:41 PM

That will do. My apologies. We both know that CFR, ABYC, and NMMA do not require tinned wire. Did Wellcraft/Genmar use it? Well, apparently not, at least in that application.

I will be contacting my friend on Monday. The former Engineering manager. See what he has to say. Let you know.

you call that an apology ??? you can do better than that...

would you like to see some more pics of how poorly this thing is built ??? would you like to see the pictures of the stress cracks everywhere ??? how 'bout the hard top,from the factory,wanna see how the welds are popped from the pounding this thing will give you ???

[250 Osprey]

I think they would be better directed to Genmar. I haven't been there since '00. If you are that incensed, then Genmar is your outlet.

[jawz]

250 Osprey - 1/16/2009 11:00 AM

To refute this erroneous statement, we used Pacer Marine boat cable. Fully tinned. Most builders in the Southeast use Pacer.

funny stuff right here,you made a bold statement,you were wrong...

next time,check your facts !!!


btw...this rig is a 1999...YOU know what that means...

[daveinthewave]

This is the last I am going to post on this thread Jawz I am sorry for saying you don't know what you are talking about. But I am going to say I hope you don't talk to your customers the way you spout of here. Also just because wire isn't tinned from beginning to end does not make it not marine grade. I have 20 offshore experience in the Industrial field and have seen alot of marine grad wire not tinned. I have worked on large supply boats and tugs and even coast guard boats. Take it or leave that is the fact. You obviously have a problem with Genmar. You should take it up with them not us. We are here to help each other not act like spoiled little kids. I will try to in the future not get into these pissing matches.
To the OP sorry for the derail I hope you got your answer.

[jawz]

daveinthewave - 1/17/2009 9:40 PM

This is the last I am going to post on this thread Jawz I am sorry for saying you don't know what you are talking about. But I am going to say I hope you don't talk to your customers the way you spout of here. Also just because wire isn't tinned from beginning to end does not make it not marine grade. I have 20 offshore experience in the Industrial field and have seen alot of marine grad wire not tinned. I have worked on large supply boats and tugs and even coast guard boats. Take it or leave that is the fact. You obviously have a problem with Genmar. You should take it up with them not us. We are here to help each other not act like spoiled little kids. I will try to in the future not get into these pissing matches.
To the OP sorry for the derail I hope you got your answer.

dave,you're mistaken...marine grade wire is tinned,if the wire is not tinned,its' not marine grade-i'm not sure what to do to convince you of this...

i don't "spout off",i back up what other's acuse me of,example,"i don't know what i'm talking about"-quoting you...and the whole erroneous statement thing by "osprey250"...i talk to people the way they talk to me...i have no agenda with any boat mfg-why would i ???
the op,fishfetcher,he's privatley emailed me about a few things,this thread,he realized the info he was getting here was incorrect,and about a boat i have for sale as well-trust me,he got his answer...
i hold everyone to what they type,this "osprey250" guy has made claims,claiming he was an engineer for proline,and now he makes the claim he built the aquasport boat line,i held him to what he typed,i proved him wrong-his claim was false...people don't like to be proved wrong,and people don't like to be told they're wrong,i know that.but,truth is,he made a false claim about me,same as you did...ya wanna know the funny thing here is,i told ya i was gonna prove you wrong-and i did...i make no false claims,if i'm wrong,i'll step up and say it...
apology accepted... you and me are ok...

[commuter boats]

jawz..... I have provided you with a link to the standard and identified the agency that sets the standard and you continue to say that only tinned conductor is rated as Marine. Again, USCG sets the standard, UL and ABYC make their recommendations to the Coast Guard. Any conductor imprinted with AWG is manufactured to the marine standard, automotive wire will be imprinted with SAE. There are several differences between SAE conductors and AWG conductors to include, AWG has oil resistant insulation,is up to 12% greater in cross-section, and as you said has a smaller strand size as well as a few others. Ancor with their type 3 stranding and tinning exceeds the standards ( I think we both agree that that's a good thing) both in strand size and corrosion resistance. You saying that AWG conductor that is not tinned is not marine rated does not make it so.
I can't tell if the conductor in your photographs is SAE or AWG, it is clearly not tinned but that wiring job doesn't meet the standards of CRF 33 in regards to strain relief and conductor support, is that OEM workmanship or has somebody been in there in the 10 years since that left the factory (the conductor does look awfully shiny for crappy 10-year-old wire)?
On another note ,why did you have to resort to name-calling and what was all that crap about seals? I have cited the standards and recommended materials that exceeded the standard, you refuse to knowledge the standard.
You have a pet peeve with the standards and how they apply to self bailing decks ( it's valid) , my pet peeve about the standards is how vague they are as to allow the poor fuel tank installations that we see in so many boats today ( no boat should require a saw to inspect fuel tank, and foam should never be allowed against an aluminum tank). We probably agree on many things that should be done on a boat, but the standards are the standards and if you find a boat that doesn't meet the standards, notify the Coast Guard, they want to hear about it and they will notify the public and the boatbuilder. Gerald

[debugger]

jawz - 1/17/2009 5:32 PM

For cheap automotive non-tinned wire.. it's sure holding out pretty well after 9 years. Looks like you could solder right to that wire and have it last another decade. As someone said earlier, it's the connectors that are the weak link. That particular grade wire.. if properly terminated, will have a service life of about 15 years.. which is deemed acceptable to Genmar. I don't see any deficiencies in that particular wiring application. Tinned "marine grade" wire may extend the service life a few more years but all the connectors will be shot by that time.

For the record, I use tinned wire for all my add-on projects in my boats, but I won't replace copper only wire just because it's not tinned. If the boat is well kept and the connectors are sprayed with crc once in a while, it's going to last a long long time.

Would you cut and strip some of the engine harness wires.. I'd like to see if there tinned or not.