Engine Info Please - - - CUMMINS 450C Diamond Series

auguste · 12-03-2008, 05:46 PM

I am looking at a boat equipped with these engines . . . CUMMINS 450C Diamond Series

Does anyone have these engines in their boat?

Are you happy with their operation and durability and reliability?

Have you had any specific problems with them?

How do maintenance costs compare with other major engine manufactures in the 450 hp range?

Many thanks for your help

makosteve66 · 12-03-2008, 06:02 PM

I had the Cummins 370B and I loved them. At the same time we repowered a Charter Boat in our Marina put the 450Cs into an old 41 Hatteras. The boat flew (for an old tank). He is completely happy with the motors and in 3 years put over 1500 hours on them with not a single problem. The C series are the heavy duty rated and they are sleeved so that they be rebuilt in the boat. I know several people that have them in their boat and I do not know ANYONE that has had a problem.

Maintenance is pretty standard, and nothing that I know of that costs "extra" on those babies. Our decision to go with Cummins was the fact that, at the time (late '90s) they were the only diesel to pass the "Navy" durability test - which if I can find the old brochure describes it. It is a barbaric test of continuous running at WOT in harsh temperature with sub-par fuel. They they the tear down the motor and "check it out"

The other feature that I loved is that they had fewer moving parts than any other comparable motor. This was true of both the 370B and the 450C

I don't think that there is a better name in the business than Cummins. They would be my first choice in a diesel

phillipdebeacke · 12-03-2008, 06:15 PM

I have them they run great , quiet, very minimal smoke . Not sure on the cost vs other engines I never have had a boat long enough to compare. No one has ever told me that they are difficult. Cummins does charge a pretty penny to look at them.

auguste · 12-04-2008, 04:53 AM

Steve and Philip

Thank you for the information

Much appreciated

rebriel53 · 12-04-2008, 05:49 AM

Steve & Philip,
I have a pr of 6B 370 Diamonds in my Blackfin. I was new to diesel engines in April 08. I'm not new the diesels any longer.
The BEST thing you 2 can do is 1. get on to boatdiesel forum http://boatdiesel.com/index.cfm?CFApp=19&. Look around the site. Spend $25...best money you'll EVER spend. Use the search engine, 450C There will be ALL the info you'll need on the 450C or any other color diesel 2. Get sbmar.com website or call Tony Athens directly http://sbmar.com/. Tony is THE expert on Cummins in the USA.
Good folks to deal with.
If you are seriously looking @ this boat, a competent Cummins SPECIFIC engine surveyor and obviously a boat surveyor is a must.
Good luck, get on boat diesel , get on Seaboard Marine's website. Post back, let us know what you think.
Bill D

auguste · 12-04-2008, 06:54 AM

Quote:

rebriel53 - 12/4/2008 8:49 AM Steve & Philip, I have a pr of 6B 370 Diamonds in my Blackfin. I was new to diesel engines in April 08. I'm not new the diesels any longer. The BEST thing you 2 can do is 1. get on to boatdiesel forum http://boatdiesel.com/index.cfm?CFApp=19&. Look around the site. Spend $25...best money you'll EVER spend. Use the search engine, 450C There will be ALL the info you'll need on the 450C or any other color diesel 2. Get sbmar.com website or call Tony Athens directly http://sbmar.com/. Tony is THE expert on Cummins in the USA. Good folks to deal with. If you are seriously looking @ this boat, a competent Cummins SPECIFIC engine surveyor and obviously a boat surveyor is a must. Good luck, get on boat diesel , get on Seaboard Marine's website. Post back, let us know what you think. Bill D

Yup . . . I will be getting both (i) an engine survey including oil analysis, as well as (ii) a survey of the hull and its components.

I first asked about the engines on THT because TECHNICAL information here is not censored here like on other boards

I WILL join BoatDiesel as that has also been suggested by another THTer

Thanks everyone !

sbmar.com · 12-04-2008, 07:04 AM

Auguste,

Before you spend $$ on a engine survey, go down to the boat on a COLD morning ( like 7 AM) , be 100% sure the engines has not been started even for a second for the past 48 hours, put you hand on the side of the block on both engines and they should feel "stone cold"... Then see how the engines start.. That's all you need for the time being as to a "survey"...If a crisp start, that will confirm the "insides" are good as to what really matters.. Then, take lots of good pics from every corner inside the engine room shown both sides, top, bottom, & rear of the engines--Pass them to me and I'll tell you what no surveyor will tell you...Very little misses my eye ----- The cost to do this is only your time..

Tony

darbikrash · 12-04-2008, 07:21 AM

Tony,

Good to see you on this board. Welcome!

ant1 · 12-04-2008, 07:26 AM

Quote:

sbmar.com - 12/4/2008 10:04 AM

Auguste,

Before you spend $$ on a engine survey, go down to the boat on a COLD morning ( like 7 AM) , be 100% sure the engines has not been started even for a second for the past 48 hours, put you hand on the side of the block on both engines and they should feel "stone cold"... Then see how the engines start.. That's all you need for the time being as to a "survey"...If a crisp start, that will confirm the "insides" are good as to what really matters.. Then, take lots of good pics from every corner inside the engine room shown both sides, top, bottom, & rear of the engines--Pass them to me and I'll tell you what no surveyor will tell you...Very little misses my eye ----- The cost to do this is only your time..

Tony

What if the guy has block heaters on? Should he specify they be off?

rebriel53 · 12-04-2008, 07:50 AM

Tony, good to see and hear from you on this site.

Some of the folks on this site are are not aware of boatdiesel forum.

In addition to the best diesel info available and and having access to dealer/specialists of all makes of diesels, boatdiesel forum is also loaded with info for all boaters. Best $25 you'll ever spend, it will save you $thousands over time$.

No block heaters...stone cold start...take the pics....start there.

Good luck, Bill

sbmar.com · 12-04-2008, 08:05 AM

No Block heaters for at least 48+ Hours-- If above 50F, the start should be close to instant on all six.............. 40 - 50F maybe a slight hiccup before all 6 catch.............Below 40 F. it could take 5 -10 seconds or so to start & clean up... If you have a video w/ sound, take a couple of minutes worth during the start-up.. And last , a hi-res pic of the top of the aftercooler and the seawater pump...

Tony

f08 · 12-04-2008, 08:51 AM

Make sure you do a compression test. Cummins policy is not to do them, which doesn't make much sense. And steer clear of forums that try to charge you for posting your own views. If you want to pay for advice, get a good mechanic. A forum is a pretty bad format for mechanical information, anyway.

auguste · 12-04-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

sbmar.com - 12/4/2008 10:04 AM Auguste, Before you spend $$ on a engine survey, go down to the boat on a COLD morning ( like 7 AM) , be 100% sure the engines has not been started even for a second for the past 48 hours, put you hand on the side of the block on both engines and they should feel "stone cold"... Then see how the engines start.. That's all you need for the time being as to a "survey"...If a crisp start, that will confirm the "insides" are good as to what really matters.. Then, take lots of good pics from every corner inside the engine room shown both sides, top, bottom, & rear of the engines--Pass them to me and I'll tell you what no surveyor will tell you...Very little misses my eye ----- The cost to do this is only your time.. Tony

That is a very generous offer and I appreciate it.

I will take the pictures. I should be going there in about 2 weeks

THANKS AGAIN

auguste · 12-04-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

rebriel53 - 12/4/2008 10:50 AM Tony, good to see and hear from you on this site. Some of the folks on this site are are not aware of boatdiesel forum. In addition to the best diesel info available and and having access to dealer/specialists of all makes of diesels, boatdiesel forum is also loaded with info for all boaters. Best $25 you'll ever spend, it will save you $thousands over time$. No block heaters...stone cold start...take the pics....start there. Good luck, Bill

Thanks . . . no block heater

auguste · 12-04-2008, 09:56 AM

Just joined BoatDiesel

Yes they have a ton of info

Thanks

davku · 12-04-2008, 05:15 PM

I have these engines in a 40 Express. They are fantastic motors! Three guys in my marina have repowered with the 450C's and are very happy with the motors also.

f08 · 12-04-2008, 06:18 PM

auguste,

you should really consider getting a book on diesel engines and/or finding a good mechanic who knows your engines. in a forum, you are just going to waste a bunch of time searching through redundant posts with partial information.

rebriel53 · 12-04-2008, 07:36 PM

f08, read the above posts. Do you see a post from Tony Athens, Seaboard Marine. Have you visited Seaboard's website...all the Cummins C info there???, have you paid your $$25 for boatdiesel forum...seen the info there from, Paul Foulston, Eric, Ski etc....all Cummins/diesel specialists??

Auguste/these guys are considering the Diamond C 450s...where do YOU suggest they get the info. Tell ya what. Find them a book on Cummins C 450.
Sorry, with all do respect.

The info is on boatdiesel forum and the Cummins/specialists who read and respond to the posts. And hopefully on this forum and others like it for folks who are looking for answers to problems.

Bill

f08 · 12-04-2008, 08:07 PM

Wow. Bill, you need to calm down. I don't know what Seaboard's website is, but I've looked at boatdiesel. It seems like a decent forum, and they have a few articles, but for someone looking to find out all the information he can about his diesel engine, an internet forum is just not the place to do it. Do you really think an internet forum is the best place to get information about anything? You need to get a manual and figure out what is going on with your engine in depth. Or you can get a good mechanic, or both. You may disagree with that, but if you do explain why. There is no need for the hysterics.

rebriel53 · 12-04-2008, 08:42 PM

F08, no need to calm down here nor am I hysterical. I'm just dealing with my factual experience. I was a diesel newbie 4-08, Cummins 6BTA 370s used. Owned a gas Bertram 28 15 years, bought the diesel boat 4-08. Hired a Cummins surveyor, boat surveyor...typical guy/me here...figured diesels good for 10,000 hours...What did I know in April 08.
What I know now as far as "marine age of diesel engines", meaning "hangons" that have nothing to do with the "inards" of a diesel engine", prop loading the engine, aftercooler maintenance, raw water system/pump maintenance, fuel filtration, CCV etc., propping to 100-150+ over rated...etc. ect.. was learned from boatdiesel forum and the dealers/specialists who you can talk to along with...let me count....I have over 12 Cummins 6BTA owners programmed in my cell phone(who I found on boatdiesel forum) all having the same diesel issues and problems solved. The specialists on the forum and the real world owners whose numbers I have on my phone...that's the real benefit of forums.

F08, with all due respect, that's all I was trying to post.

Your friend, Bill D