RP, Willis Beal, calvin Beal, Osmond Beal down easters

[dryblls]

having a discussion here at the office about these boats...Please chime in on your experiences with differences and quality of these builders...With so many maine builders I find it diffcult to get info on who is who and what is good/ ad etc.--thx

[blitzen]

Having just gone through the building of a new Spencer Lincoln design, I looked at a lot of builders and designers and one thing that I saw while doing the research is that all the boats vary for intended purpose. Calvin Beal is responsible for many designs and only builds a few boats himself. I like his boats they are big, fast and mainly designed with the lobster men in mind. Osmond Beal designs his boats the same way with a different look. The lobster boat design carries more of the beam aft and has a flatter stern so the guys can carry more traps. Spencer Lincoln likes to soften his designs with more tumble home and tends to have a 0 degree deadrise at the stern. Flat, stable, and fast. The Beal designs, Osmond, Willis, Calvin, and Ernest J. Libby are all skeg boats which tends to be fast but a little harder riding. Spencer Lincoln designs are built down boats, this give more room inside the boat for the engine and can eliminate the engine box commonly found in many skeg boats.
Bear in mind that many builders will build to the wallet of the owner so it is very hard to judge by just a few boats what a builder can do. I think many of them that build the majority of the boats, do a good job but they all have some problems. There are many stories to be told.

[dryblls]

what size boat did you build? what kind/size power? do you have an pix you can post or e-mail me ?

thanks

[blitzen]

It is a 36ft. I put a Cat C-9 Accert rated at 575 HP. You can see the full build at:
http://www.noreast.com/discussion/Vi...D=66190&page=1

[dryblls]

great thanks --good luck

[parkerjake]

The guys you mention, Willis, Calvin, and Osmond, are now basically designing boats which are built out of glass. They used to build wood boats themselves, all skeg designs, with variations in both cosmetics and performance. I have a Willis-built 39 footer which I've refinished and repowered. Compared with my boat, the fiberglass designs have higher sides, wider backs, carry more weight, require more power, and behave more like glass boats in general. To my eye at least, they are boxy and less graceful than the earlier wood designs. Spencer Lincoln designs built-down boats out of glass which are generally good looking, strong, and stable, but require a lot of power vs the skeg designs. Some years ago, I took Spencer out on my Willis which was a treat for both of us; he's a very interesting and fun guy. Of the glass boats, I generally like the Holland designs.

[spearfish3]

I apologize for an elementary question, but how does a built down compare to other regional designs like a Carolina boat in terms of head sea performance? It is supposed to be a strong suit of both designs. Assume both boats at the similar length, weight, HP, etc. I know they are completely different animals, but could the downeast keep up in a solid 4-6ft sea? I would assume the skeg boats would win in smooth seas, but they would be left behind in “nasty” weather/seas?

I am from FL and you really do not sea very many true semi-displacement downeast boats. Personally, I think they are gorgeous with a classic utilitarian look. I am glad this thread was formed because I haven’t really found a ton of information on these boats.

[parkerjake]

The Beals skeg designs were developed during Prohibition to outrun the law in any seas. In the hands of a good designer and builder, they are superb sea boats, faster and more graceful than built down designs. The built down boats carry more weight and offer more standing head room and cabin amenities, but are not better sea boats. The Carolina boats have a flared bow for knocking down heavy seas, but the best of the Beals boats accomplish the same task without even resorting to spray rails. The Beals guys simply refined the art of wooden boat building over about 80 years. The key is that they were building for themselves, with each boat a little different than the one before. Sadly, the era is over, and the newer glass designs are not the same in terms of grace and beauty. But the newer glass boats do carry more traps and are easier to maintain. Even Willis now fishes a glass boat of his design, and he was the best of the wooden builders.

[HarborRd]

"The built down boats carry more weight and offer more standing head room and cabin amenities, but are not better sea boats."


There are quite a few who would disagree with the second part of that statement. People can work up quite a lather arguing over skeg-built vs. built-down.

[boatmanalso]

"what is good"

They all are good. The place to start is to find out which boat would fit your needs the best or... what you can afford.

I'm having a boat built now and investigated a few boats last winter and spring. I own a Spencer Lincoln designed 35 built by Duffy and Duffy and am having a Northern Bay 38 constructed.

Skeg boats tend to be a little more stable than the built down and they use to be faster a few years back but they don't hold that as a advantage anymore.

So,,, what are your needs?

[blitzen]

HarborRd - 11/19/2008 8:51 AM

"The built down boats carry more weight and offer more standing head room and cabin amenities, but are not better sea boats."


There are quite a few who would disagree with the second part of that statement. People can work up quite a lather arguing over skeg-built vs. built-down.

I would agree. Having owned both types of boats built down and skeg, the built down boat gives a softer ride which is good for me as I get older. Since I don't like to get bounced around any more I have found that the built down design will allow you to carry your speed longer than a skeg boat before having to slow down for the seas. There are many factors that play in to this, length of waterline, beam, power, and weight but in general I like the softer ride of the built down boats. The speed and efficiency of a skeg boat is nice too.

[boatmanalso]

No question about it. A built down is a better Sea boat. But then , which boat in which sea?

[boatmanalso]

Spear, in a 4 to 6 sea, the built down would have the advantage in being more comfortable opposed to the skeg boat. I believe the 38 I'm having built would outperform probably everything within a few feet of its size for a Down East designer in that kind of a sea.

[parkerjake]

You might want to find a copy of "Maine Lobsterboats, Builders and Lobsterman Speak of Their Craft," by Virginia Thorndike. It was published about 10 years ago and is a great resource for anyone interested in this style of boat.

[spearfish3]

I appreciate the responses. It is interesting learning about the different types and styles of boats for different regions. It seems there are differing opinions on which hull is best, but that is no different than a Merritt vs. Whiticar discussion.

Parkerhake, The book may have to be an early Christmas present to myself.

Boatmanalso, Is the 36 Northern Bay build down or skeg? I think it has one best looking lines/profiles. Definitely post some pictures of your build. I am sure there are a number of people who would enjoy watching it come together. Goodl Luck!

[boatmanalso]

The 36 Northern Bay is a built down designed by Spencer Lincoln. However, if you are looking in the 36' range you really should talk to Blitzen. That new Flowers has to be the best boat in that size. It probably has almost the same abilities of Wayne Beals 36 without the pounding in the head sea. Of coarse, This head sea thing is what I've heard from a few of their owners. I never been on one. Personaly, I'm probably on my way home in 4 to 6 anyway.

[boatmanalso]

This is my idea of what a good looking Down East boat is. To bad its a little to big for me cause its for sale last in knew.

http://www.rpboats.com/100_0087.JPG

[Fishreaction]

I think a real key to these boats is its balance. I have a 40' H&H and used to have it powered with a 900HP Mack, we used to run that boat at 24-26kt's and it was a screamer. There were several days fishing east of Chatham where we would no bullshit blow by everything in the same size range + 5 feet or so. This included smaller Vikings, but probably not the new ones, Cabo's and everything else. I will never forget getting back to the dock before them sometimes. Of course when its flat ass calm and they are cruising full tilt forget about it. I really like the way you can set up a downeast compared to a larger production type boat. First off just do not like fly bridges, I want to be near the cockpit and also with everyone else when we are running to the grounds. The majority of boat this range do not have that unless you go with an express. I hated running flybridge boats as a captain because I was always alone up there and made longer trips, longer. Secondly I like having a full enclosed salon basically with a helm, not even with EZ2CY. I like it for lockable storage, better air conditioning and probably another dozen reasons.

I was on the Northern Bay kick back in 2002, had a deposit on a hull even. Then that is when the company had problems, shifted owners and things got ugly. So in the meantime we ran across our H&H 40 and it was ready to go and couldn't beat the pricing for the boat we were getting.

Nothing beats it for canyon or bluefin fishing I can tell you that. Just nothing compares, we mostly have fished it with just two people, plenty of room but still can get to fish with the helm control and see the Fish Finder from the COCKPIT nearly 20' away.

There is alot to be said for the finishers up there because they can make anything from a raw skiff out of it to a yacht.

[dryblls]

points well taken ...it seems that most people seem (at least here) to feel like the down built is better in a sea?

[bo goldman]

calvin beal design big boat i have on and it performs well i'll match itwith any boat in its size