Scratch $600 I was wrong. Try $1,160 to install electronics

[looneytunes]

Scratch $600 I was wrong. Try $1,160 to install electronics

I just bought a brand new 24 foot 2301 Seaswirl Striper Walk Around with hard top. I wanted them to install the following items: remote control halogen spot/flood light, Lowrance X-97 fish finder, Garmin 176c GPS, 8 ft Shakespeare am/fm antenna, 8 ft Shakespeare VHF antenna only not the actual VHF radio, Flow Scan meter, and 2 Bose indoor/outdoor speakers.

I was estimating the price based on the fact that the rigger told me that it would be a full 8 hour day for him to install my electronics. I figure$80 per hour. Man was I wrong. First of all I am doubtful that it would take a professional rigger 8 hours to complete the task. A pro could probably finish in 4 –5 hours. It is literally 3 cables that can be pulled through the tubes of the hard top simultaneously. The electronics box already has a fuse box with 4 available slots. Here is how the dealer broke it down for me.

Remote control halogen spot/flood light $300
Lowrance X-97 fish finder $200
Garmin 176c GPS $270
Flow Scan meter $150
2 Bose indoor/outdoor speakers $ 45
8 ft Shakespeare am/fm antenna (just mount 4 screws of base to hard top. Does not include running the antenna through the hard top to the electronics box. $45
8 ft Shakespeare VHF antenna only not the actual VHF radio (this one included running the cable through the tubes of the hard top to the electronics box BUT not wiring the VHF. $150

Are these guys overcharging me or what.

In any case, I have requested the delivery date be moved up to ASAP and I will install the electronics myself and still have the boat ready for the christening ceremony on the 4/17.

Now what I need is any advice / tips about rigging through the aluminum tubes of the hard top. Include drill bits, grommets everything to do an extremely neat job. Two antennas are coaxial and one is much thinner maybe 14 gauge for the gps antenna. The other stuff is quite easy.

Looking forward to good replies and maybe even a few good pictures.

ThanX,

LooneyTunes
Dave

[Mumblerone]

I rigged my boat myself with similiar equipment.* I'd like to see anybody do it in eight hour.* To do it right is very time consuming.* Sounds to me that $1200 plus or minus is a bargin.*

[dwh_1987]

I don't know any super-neat ways to finish off any aluminum tube penetrations.*

One installation trick I know is using weedeater line as "fish-tape" to work through tight areas.* You run the line thru the tight area, then use about 6" of overlapping electrical tape to attach the wire or cable to the homemade fish-tape.* The advantage of the weedwhacker line is that it's*not prone to damage*other hoses or wires like a metal fish-tape can.*

On the Floscan, make sure you correctly orient the fuel-flow sensors.* This-end-up matters.

If you can get to the back of whatever you're mounting the speakers to, use bolts and washers instead of screws.* Screws like to come out of fiberglass, especially with the heavy speaker pushing its bracket back and forth as you're crashing thru waves.* Use loctite or some other method to make sure the nuts don't get loose.*

Use 3M 5200 to seal the holes in your hard-top.* Nothing prevents leaks like that stuff.* Most of the old guys I know don't use the fast-cure, they just use the blue-label variety.

[John]

I have mounted all of the above, and the quote you were given is ridiculous!!!!! I could fly up there from Tampa, install your electronics, rent a hotel room, go to the Bada Bing club that night and still end up with money leftover from that $1,160 !!!

[JPBass1]

I posted the same question a while back about snaking the wires. Here's the answers I got.

click here for the replies

I agree with Mumblerone. It's a lot of work and 1,100 bucks sound fair.

[feralcat]

I have my own thoughts, having just rewired, and installed a few goodies in my boat, over the last few weekends.....

I will say this. Make sure to have a shop-vac handy after drilling aluminum. Goddam little shavings will literally jump up and stick bare feet or skin, and are a miserable splinter to remove.

[SeaJay]

In all of these topics the answer seems to be "that is too high, you could do it yourself for less".

No S### sherlock, free labor beats the heck out of the kind you got to pay for any day of the week. I am still waiting to hear all of these experts give a name or two of a professional shop that will do it for less.

[Rocky]

Yep same thing happened to my son and his new boat. 1,000 dollars just to install radio, and gps depth finder. Kinda steep. Good luck

[MONSTAWHALA]

I gotta tell ya'....Looking back at ALL the electronics on my boat that I have installed and ALL the time it took to do it right, its almost impossible to put a price on scraped knuckles,hacked up arms, and all the bumps to ones head. That said the price you were quoted for those installs was very fair.BUT the only way your gonna know for sure is to do it yourself...I guarantee you that will be the ONLY way you realize that the price given was a fair one. Just for fun , keep an honest log on the total time YOU spend on it, its gonna surprise you.Have fun and good luck....

[backman]

Do this:

Install just one component by the stop watch; position, measure, reposition, remeasure, remeasure, cut, drill, grommet, tie, caulk, wrap, heat shrink, caulk, tie.

3-4 hours at 75$/hr and 30$ worth of odds and ends that add up in a hurry then 1160$ for all 5 install's will seem like a steal.

Take a simple 1 - 45$ or 40 minutes to install an antenna.

1. Open antenna mount package
2. Read instructions if they exist
3. Find correct sized bolts and lock nuts for job
4. Lay template on hardtop; mark holes
5. Find masking tape - tape hardtop/both sides.
6. Find Dewalt; find correct drill bit.
7. Drill holes
8. find tube of caulk, 5200 or mix up epoxy
9. Gloop hole with stuff
10. Insert bolts
11. Screw tight
12. Screw antenna onto base.

Now if I had all my tools and parts lined up in a row and was doing this on something I didn't care about - sure - 20 minutes.

But if I'm doing it on my boat, want it done right; don't do it every day, have to scramble for parts, supplies; etc; up to the hard top; down to the deck, into the tool box; into the locker where the tape and gloop is - 40 minutes or 45 minutes seems like a pretty good deal.

[mole2]

Sounds easy, doesn't it? Once you do it yourself you'll know WHY it's $1160. It's a lot more work than just pulling three wires through the raceways and hooking up to the fuse box. It's a lot more work than 8 hours for the pro. I've done my own and used to do automotive electrical. You can do it. But it will take you a lot longer than them. Take your time and think each piece out and in relation to the other pieces. Just snaking up to the bow may be a trip. I installed a small raceway by epoxying plastic wire tie holders to the bottom of the gunnel inside the cabin (hidden away) and wire wrapped the raceway in place. All my wires to the bow run through there. Nice, neat and easy to replace in the future if necessary. Shrink wrap the teminal ends. Secure the ends so they don't move after attaching. Don't forget to coat screw terminal ends and plugs with dielectric grease to prevent corrosion. And you'll just love the feeling of drilling into you nice new boat with all the screw holes, speaker holes, wire holes etc. Make sure you bed the mounts to waterproof them. You'll do fine.

[Libra]

I have to agree with John. Way overpriced and you can do it all yourself. Theres no way to put a price on your own time to see if the $1160 is realistic, as you don't do it for a living, and would probably take more time to do it the way you want. Once you've done it yourself, you now know lots more about how your boat is wired, rigged, etc., and that can be important later on. There were some posts in your other thread about how to snake the lead wire thru. Once its thru, pulling the others is a breeze. Another option that some guys use is to hire a good rigging guy that moonlights. You'll pay less and learn more by helping.

[blacklabmarine]

My electronics guy has a very simple time tested*ratio that he insists is the best way to figure electronics installation costs:

1 hour/component

Thus a fishfinder with transponder and display is a two hour job multiplied by your prevailing shop rate.

I understand both ends of this argument both as a vendor and consumer.*

The idea of knowing your own boat's electronics personally is very appealing and worthwile.

[BIGnUGLY]

I just had my new Grady 228 professionally rigged today. $565 dollars in labor put on a VHF, antennae, Raytheon C-80 with radome, gps, and compass and the furuno 582l with transom mount transducer. He had to cut out the dash area and refit with starboard to fit everything I wanted on. Flush mount, calibrated, and done in one day. I am glad that I hired it out. I went to 3 different guys and this one is the only one that wasn't trying to sell me "his" stuff. I bought half myself, and he supplied the other half at prices I couldn't find. He didn't pressure me to buy anything and went through the pros and cons of different setups before I decided. Shop around, his rate was $65/hr, and he told me he would be able to keep it under 1K in labor. Final price was almost half that, so I was pleasantly surprised, especially since the no-see-ums nearly ate him alive. It could have been me out there for a couple of days getting eaten by the little *(&^*$#&&ers

[gerg]

Yup, you can do all that yourself. I've done all of that and more. Is it too much to pay for someone to do it for you correctly during the week when you are at work? Nope.

Guess what a 3 1/4" hole saw goes for (it's about $30, btw, you need a 1/2" chuck for this one, so buy a new drill)? How about all sizes between 3/4" and 3.5"? You may need all of them. What about a 100' spool of 12 guage, pre-tinned marine wire (you will need two, one red, one black)? Don't forget a heat gun and shrink tunbing, as well as a ratcheting crimp tool and lots of ancor crimp connectors. You'll probably also need a few water-proof grommets as well.

My point is that unless you like buying a lot of expensive tools and supplies to do just one job, or already have or can borrow them, your costs go up. It could take you 4-6 hours just to install that floscan alone. And that assumes you have all the parts and tools when you start. Trips to the store take time also.

So having said that, I do most things myself and probably have enough parts kicking around to do dozens of installs (you don't use all of that 100' spool or all those connections in one shot). I've probably saved a bunch of money, but I've lost a considerable amount of hours, and there are times when the money is easier to come by.

[witchcraft]

Stick a shop vac up to the hole in the center console where the t top mounts to it. have some one hold the vacume while you feed some cotton twine into the hole you drilled up near the electronics box. Then tape some 16 guage wire to the twine and pull plenty through. Now use the wire to pull your wires up or down (thats why you pull plenty). Use electrical tape to tape what you want to pull to the pull wire. I usually file the hole i drilled first, then I tape the wires together and make it thick enough so the black tape fills the hole. You can use some wire loom if you want but it's probally only a 2 or 3 inch run. I would make sure your power supply is fused before it feeds the top, not just in the box. get a heat gun to do the heat shrinks. If something quits a few years from now you will know where to look. Thats worth doing it yourself right there. Have fun.

[round2it]

Yes, you can do it yourself, but it's going to take time. Much more than you think right now. I would not be surprised if it doesn't take you a week or more. No, scratch that. I will be surprised if it takes you less than a week. Don't forget the backing plates for your antenna mounts. Of course you need to get the stainless steel or aluminum plates that you trim yourself. Which brings to mind a couple of questions. How handy are you with tools? Do you have a large assortment of tools? Are you patient enough to complete the install over time? Do you have enough correctly colored wire and electrical connectors on hand? Do you have a DMM? If not, you need to buy one for around $50 to $100 bucs. But you're going to need one in the future anyway so go ahead and get one. You're going to probably need good tools in the future if you don't already have them. I install all my stuff, but it takes time. You will learn your boat and that's a good thing.

For the holes in the tubing you can buy rubber grommets at Lowes that fit around the hole after you drill it and before you run the wire. One thing about 4200 is that you can use it above and below the waterline, but it only has 1/2 the strength of 5200. It may be easier to clean up or get off at a later date. Marine grade silicon is a good thing to seal none critical holes that strength is not needed.

edit: Posted at the same time as gerg.

[SIM]

Dave,

I am not sticking up for a fellow boat rigger but.......I think you got a fair shake. I have been rigging boats*for 20 years and I would have to "hump" to get that work*done in eight hours. I usually cover the boat decks ect (protective sheeting)and that takes time too.

Flush mounted equipment?

The idea with the vacum*for the "fish" wire or string for pulling wire through tubing works great and I second it.

SIM

[zup]

As long as your are somewhat handy you will be better off doing yourself for several reasons:

1. You will be intimately familiar with the wiring of the electronics should something go wrong while you are out. (There is nothing worst than trying to figure out why you GPS stopped working 50 miles offshore with the boat rocking and not even being able to find the fuse or circuit breaker).
2. No one will care about rigging your boat more than you.
3. Paying a guy $60 an hour to cut some holes and crimp some wires is ridiculous. The shop is probably only paying the rigger about 12 to 18 dollars an hour and pocketing the rest. (You could talk directly to the rigger and see if he will do it on the weekend for a reduced rate)
4. After 5 boats the only transom mount transducer ever mounted correctly and functioning from idle to WOT is the one I installed myself. (How hard is it for the riggers to read the instructions? One installer put one right next to a lifting strake, and another put it on the upstroke side of the prop. Neither one ever functioned well)

I did all the work on my last two boats. The first job I did my self took 11 hours and involved the flush mounting of both a 10 and 7 inch Raymarine display, a VHF and Stereo; installing two speakers, mounting the transducer, VHF antenna, and GPS antenna. Being my first time some things took me a little longer than they should. The dealer wanted $1700 to do the install.

Just this weekend I rigged my new boat. Installed a Raymarine C120, GPS Antenna, VHF, VHF Antenna, Transducer, 4KW Raydome, Stereo and 4 speakers in just over 8 hours. (Would have been shorter put the Radar cable did not want to go through the T-Top tubes). Next weekend I am going to install my backup GPS and back up VHF. I shudder to think what the dealer would have wanted.

[timing]

"A pro could probably finish in 4 –5 hours." = No way!!!

Having installed most of these items on my own boats, I'd say this is
closer to a 2 day job for a pro installer who does it cleanly and
correctly - once, without latent problems to haunt you.
Good installer gets 70/hr.
70x14=980 + materials...

Have you called other locals for quotes?
And ask for references to make sure their not
in an on_the_job training mode.
Old British phrase that comes to mind: "pay peanuts and get a monkey"