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Ok don't want to start a huge debate here. From the Pac Nor West and well thinking of buying a CC for offshore use in our waters. I have looked at a couple. Ridden in none. First hand experiences prefered.
So what and where should I be looking at. Can I get big water boats recommendations. Boat should be able to have a 70 mile out range. Looking 24 more so than 26, say with twin F150's or 150 Verado's.
WANT A QUALITY BOAT.
Remember nearest dealer support for me is going to be over a 100 miles away really. Really like the Regulators. Love the unsinkable Cape Horns. Both those boat have a big bow flair that I love the looks at. Ride is most important. But would also like some first hand owners experience about how "wet" these boats are. Say quartering into the wind with a stiff chop. Another question I have is how these boats handle heavy swells with a chop sometimes fairly confused and from two different directions.
What kind of budget do you have? There's some awesome deals out there on slightly used boats. The CH and the Reg are two totally different rides. Both are good, but the Reg will plow through waves due to it's weight while a Ch loves it up on top. Another question that you might want to consider is will you trailer or wet slip? If you trailer, you definitly want to make sure what you have will haul it. If you want a 26 and budget is no factor, I'd go with the Regulator 26, Southport 26, or the CH 26. Both are great boats. If you want a 24, I'd definitly recommend a Mckee craft as pictured in my sig. The boat definitly handles more than I can. You won't have to worry about range as I know both the CH and the Mckee have 180 gallon tanks. If you decide to go with a reg, CH, or a mckee, these are all top tier boats and ride great Good luck with your choice
Center consoles are wet, period. No matter how hard you try, since the boat is moving forward, the natural tendency of the wind is to throw water at you. If you have a full cabin, the cabin gets doused and you stay dry. But a center console - any center console - heading into the chop is going to get you wet.
But how wet is the question. You can make some determination by taking a look at the bow and seeing what it has in rails and contours to turn the water over and knock it down. A smooth bow rides superbly, but lets water come right up the sides until gets high enough for the wind to grab it and throw it at you. A bow with significant steps and a lot of flare helps, but even flare only lowers the height of the water and the wind will still catch it.
I do my boating on Maui, which for the first 4 hours of the day is a great place for a center console. The air is warm and the water is warm. But it also blows a lot and we usually face a 20 to 25 knot headwind coming back in. If I am doing 30 in the boat, the net speed as far as the wind is concerned, is 55 mph. 55 seems like enough to move a lot of water, but it is actually drier than 35. Here's why: I've been through several center consoles and have found that the combination of a long, sharp entry and 24 degrees of deadrise allows me to get up on top and move quickly enough that the water actually misses the occupants. Plowing along slower is far wetter. Less deadrise and a fuller bow is more efficient and sits better on drift. But I'll buy the extra fuel for the comfort of the ride back in.
My suggestion is nothing less than 20 degrees of deadrise and a sharp, not full, bow. I had a Parker 25, which is a very well made and very efficient boat. But the low deadrise made it pure misery in the short steep chop of the trades. I went a bit steeper in deadrise with a Stamas Tarpon. Great boat, well constructed and lots of beam. But 29 foot boat with a 10'6" beam has the wrong aspect ratio (waterline length to beam) to be happy in a head sea. It had a sharper entry than the Parker and the ride improved accordingly, but was still wet and hard on the knees.
Next came a Jupiter 31, which was a major improvement in ride. More length, less beam, more deadrise and a sharper entry let it go through most of the chop up on top without crashing in the troughs. I now have a Venture 34, which is a lot like a slightly longer Jupiter 31 with a higher bow and more freeboard. Water that was a challenge at 12 knots in the Parker, 16 knots in the Stamas and 24 knots in the Jupiter has become a 30 knot proposition in the Venture. There's still an occasional variance in the water that is just right to toss some of it at you, but it is not the constant bath we had before. I love my Venture and recommend it highly, but it is longer than what you are considering.
You need to find the worst water you can and demo the boat in it. If you are going to be staying in the 24 foot range, my experience says to stay with a narrower boat. An aspect ratio of three is a lot better ride than a ratio of two. There's just no way to make a 24 footer with 10 feet of beam do anything but bring you to your knees in a head sea. To me, the Regulator has a great ride, but is very heavy and hard on fuel. The Cape Horn is also a very good boat and has a balance of weight and hull design that lets it ride a little higher than the Reg, with more efficiency. Both are good choices.
About the twins: We buy twins because of a perceived safety factor. But most problems are fuel related and unless you are buying fuel for each tank from a different station, a bad load of fuel is going to put the fire out in both engines. Contemporary engines are remarkably well built and failures are few. For a 24 foot boat, I'd buy a big single and use the cost and rigging savings for better electronics. The fuel savings over twins will buy many nice dinners and a membership in the unlimited towing service of your choice.
If you do plan to quarter into a stiff chop in a 24 foot center console, I'd recommend a mask and snorkel. You'll find you need to run straight into it and then turn 90 degrees to it. The real artwork is staying dry during the 90 degree turn.
I think Kerno put it together very well although I differ in a couple of points.
First, quartering into a stiff chop will be as wet as the chop is stiff. In 3 footers you could run a decent 26' so the seas break at around the back of the helm; any wind blow over spray will get in the boat behind you. In a 5 foot quartering chop things get a bit different, depending on the angle, boat, etc. you could see a lot more spray with the occasional dooser come in forward of where they were coming before as you have slowed down now.
I run a 26 Southport which I consider to be a better choice than the Regulator as far as ride is concerned although I prefer the topside layout of the Regulator better. In my experience I find that the Southport stays on plane through a lower rpm range than the 4-stroke Regulator and does not have the bow rise of the Reg especially when low in fuel. As far as running into a "stiff" head sea, no 26' likes to do that! If they did, noone would buy the 35's.
Second, although todays OBs are much more reliable than before, I want twins and I want the size of twins that I could get back on one on plane. On a 26' this means twin 250s vs. a 350 if Yamaha is your choice.
OK. Guess I want to explain my concern about seas a little bit better.
Kerno you are probably close to some of the conditions I experience in the Washington Coast area. These guy are all telling me I am crazy for looking at big CC's. I am not adverse to a 24 but am leaning 26 if I do go this route.
My biggest concern is not just a chop. We get swells. Big ones too. Sometimes we can get caught out where they stack up. A fishable forecast for me right not is a 9 foot combined seas. With no more than 6 ft swell at 12 second period. Now a lot of times they will come from differnt directions. The last day I fished we ran SW 50 miles. Swells were out of the almost strait south at about an average 4ft with a 6 or two thrown in. To furthur agrivate it the chop was NW. Solid 2-3 ft'ers. Made for a miserable ride in our NW style boats with the windshield throw way forward. But we did it. Windshield got really wet.
The guys all tell me there is a reason no one runs big CC's out here. But besides the fact of a wet ride no one can tell me why. Just that I am going to be wet and miserable. How many guys can you get in a canvas enclosure you can walk around and still be fishable in a 26' CC.
Right now really love the lay out and size of the 26' Regulator. Have not seen a bunch in person though. Contenders really look like bow stuffing machines. Maybe it is just because of the lack of flair and fact they seem "shallow" compared to a Regulator.
Anyone have any experience in these in big swell confused seas? Can you get on top of that and fly like you guys do on the East Coast to mitigate the ride? Not wanting to go over a 26' boat with a 8'6" beam are really where I am looking. Would really like an extended 24 though.
Also in stepping to a 26-26 what are the detractions of a 9'+ beam boat.
Thank you for the really well thought out responses so far. Kerno that was more than my whole thread on the NW board I go to got out of it.
How about Cat CC's. Any difference in the amount of spray?
I have a Regulator 24fs with twin Yamaha 150s. The boat is an absolute beast for it size. With the 24 degree deadrise and Carolina bow flare, the ride is soft and very dry. The only time I get spray at the helm is when there is a strong wind across the beam in sloppy seas. I do not get spray coming at me from the bow in a chop.
The boat is set up for spray curtains, but I do not have the curtains (all the way aft to the helm seat). Based on my experiecne in New England waters, the curtains would work very well to keep you and 3 other guys dry with no problem. The boat has the range you seek becasue it has 150 gallons of fuel and is very fuel efficient. Now, if you have another $30k to $40k burning a hole in your pockets for a comparable year Reg 26, however, the Reg 26 is even nicer.
JasonWA - 9/30/2008 3:31 AM OK. Guess I want to explain my concern about seas a little bit better. Kerno you are probably close to some of the conditions I experience in the Washington Coast area. These guy are all telling me I am crazy for looking at big CC's. I am not adverse to a 24 but am leaning 26 if I do go this route. My biggest concern is not just a chop. We get swells. Big ones too. Sometimes we can get caught out where they stack up. A fishable forecast for me right not is a 9 foot combined seas. With no more than 6 ft swell at 12 second period. Now a lot of times they will come from differnt directions. The last day I fished we ran SW 50 miles. Swells were out of the almost strait south at about an average 4ft with a 6 or two thrown in. To furthur agrivate it the chop was NW. Solid 2-3 ft'ers. Made for a miserable ride in our NW style boats with the windshield throw way forward. But we did it. Windshield got really wet. The guys all tell me there is a reason no one runs big CC's out here. But besides the fact of a wet ride no one can tell me why. Just that I am going to be wet and miserable. How many guys can you get in a canvas enclosure you can walk around and still be fishable in a 26' CC. Right now really love the lay out and size of the 26' Regulator. Have not seen a bunch in person though. Contenders really look like bow stuffing machines. Maybe it is just because of the lack of flair and fact they seem "shallow" compared to a Regulator. Anyone have any experience in these in big swell confused seas? Can you get on top of that and fly like you guys do on the East Coast to mitigate the ride? Not wanting to go over a 26' boat with a 8'6" beam are really where I am looking. Would really like an extended 24 though. Also in stepping to a 26-26 what are the detractions of a 9'+ beam boat. Thank you for the really well thought out responses so far. Kerno that was more than my whole thread on the NW board I go to got out of it. How about Cat CC's. Any difference in the amount of spray?
I haven't fished in your seas before but there is a reason why those guys are telling you that the local conditions may not be all that suitable for a CC setup. How will that affect your resale later?
Having said that....
I own a 26 Reg and have 300 hrs on it. Our trips to the Norfolk Canyon and trolling all day result in about 225 miles and 125 gallon fuel burn. I don't believe our seas are as rough as what you described and you may burn more fuel. Plus I don't push it, I cruise at best efficiency which is usually around 33 mph.I have the factory curtains and 4 guys can fish the boat comfortably but 3 is best. I have run as many as 10 lines at once trolling offshore with a center rigger mounted on the T-top. The supersport leaning post has 9 rod holders which I like over the tackle center.
A buddy owns a 26 Southport. I don't care for the layout that much but it does have a much slower planing speed with virtually no bow rise. That is great for when it is really rough or if you are cruising in heavy fog or a congested inlet channel. I don't agree that the ride is better than the 26 Reg as I think it is a toss up. I really hate the rear in floor fishbox and bilge access, but again that is a personal thing. That rear in floor box is heavy for one person to lift and then you have to disconnect a hose on the bottom to get it out of th way to get to the bilge. Don't get me wrong the SP 26 is a nicely built boat.
As far as cats, yes they are definitely worth looking at. In fact Glacier Bay is up there where you are and there is a reason why. If you want to stay trailerable I would look at theGB26 (8'9" beam or the 23, 24 or 27 World Cat. All boats are a trade off so you are going to have to take a ride. Some don't like the sneezing, tunnel slap or beam sea chop in a cat. You may want to go to the world cat forum hosted on their website and do some reading.
The advantage of a 9' beam is more room in the cockpit but it may not be legally trailerable if that matters to you.
I would not write off a Contender. Lots of guys push them to the limit and they hold up just fine. As pointed out any CC boat is going to be wet sooner or later.
Good luck, take your time. There are lots of late model used boats in the market right now that are well equipped. Make sure whatever engines you get can be serviced by someone relatively local. All boats need service no matter who makes them.
Sailfish 2660 Pilot House Center Console.
26'2" with a 9 foot beam. Variable deadrise running surface with a 24 degre deadrise at the keel and 22 at the chines resulting in a great ride at speed and a stable boat at rest. It also boasts a 60 degree bow entry and 200 gallon fuel capacity. And as you can in the picture. The alluminum framed doors act as either spray wings or true doors to seal off the helm as an enclosed pilot house. The doors can also be taken completely off if the weather happens to break enough for that.
A lot of good information and suggestions here!!!!
From reading your description of the seas you face, I would seriously question a center console. The water is very cold, so the air temp follows. I'd be looking at boats with heated enclosures.
You'll notice that the configuration of the boats tends to follow the local weather and seas. Center consoles are very popular in the South East and Gulf regions. When I went looking for boats for Hawaii, there were not many center consoles in Southern California. In Miami, every other boat is a center console. The weather and the water temp is the reason why.
I know I have been 135 mile out (one way) in my Triton 2690WA. The boat is as solid as they come, and I've never felt unsafe in it. I regularly fish 100-135 miles out.
When it gets REAL rough (3-5) chop the boat will get wet. But that's what the storm enclosure is for. I'm in Louisiana, so we have more of a chop here. I've been out in some pretty bad swells right after a storm, and the boat ate them up.
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Also in stepping to a 26-26 what are the detractions of a 9'+ beam boat.
?
The time proven ratio of length to beam has been around 3:1. One of the net results of this ratio is less pounding (actually is more involved than that but lets keep things simple here). We should keep in mind however that "length" is the water line length and "beam" is the water line beam as well.
Nowdays boat manufacturers kind of stretch the boundaries. Length is presented as the LOA which may include pulpits, brackets, etc. Similarly, beam is the widest part of the boat, gunnells included. My 27 Albemarle became a 28 while the hull remained exactly the same. Grady, WC etc are all doing the same.
My 26 Southport is advertised as 26'6"x9'6". These are not water line dimensions. The 9'6" beam is taken at the widest part of the bow flare which is up in the air and a couple of feet ahead of the console and then it tapers down to around 8' at the transom.
The detraction of a 9'+ 26footer which assumingly maintains the 3:1 lentgh to beam ratio offering a steep entry and 22 deg to 24 deg deadrise would be the permit you may need to trailer it.
I own a 26 ft cape horn.. and love it.. .. fast in the ocean... fishability is second to none.. it has the ride of a much bigger boat... construction is second to none.. havent had to tighten a screw or anything yet.. just clean it off and get ready for the next trip.. easy to clean... (plenty of storage)... i have fished on a lot of boats and in its class there isnt much that tops this boat for fishing... ride... and money...
A buddy owns a 26 Southport. I don't care for the layout that much but it does have a much slower planing speed with virtually no bow rise. That is great for when it is really rough or if you are cruising in heavy fog or a congested inlet channel. I don't agree that the ride is better than the 26 Reg as I think it is a toss up.* I>
Ben
My comment on the ride refered to what happens when you come off plane due to seas. When seas allow you to get the Reg on plane, its ride is amongst the best in the 26' industry as the boat becomes level again. To the best of my recollection, the Reg I run (F250s, empty tanks) came off plane at around 3400 rpm and the bow shot up.
Incidentally, I do share your thoughts on accessing the bilge on the Southport, especially if the fish box is full.
Hydra-sports are making appearance on the West Coast. I would strongly recommend looking at 2500 with twin 150s... Range, ride quality and reasonalby priced.
I run a charter boat in Alaska and fish the outer coast of the Pacific and Gulf of Alaska over 100 days a year.
You do not want a cc up there, period.
Your friends are trying to help you, listend to them.
I have run a cc boat up there too and it was an awful experience (times 192 b/c that's how many charters I ran in a cc up there).
As for ride, I don't think anyone really knows how many of these cc's will ride coming down swell unless they have had one shipped to the west coast. I know what confused is on a big swell with a stiff wind and it's hard to tell without driving the particular boat.
If I was you I would look very seriously at a 26' North River w/twin F150's.
If you search under my user id there is some pics of my 28' in some big water, would you want to be in a cc in that?
My two cents.
P.S. My boat in the Gulf of Mexico is a Cape Horn 24.
I have owned a Hydra Sports 2596 for eight years. It has a wide beam and is a heavy boat, dry ride and big fuel tank. Excellent offshore boat. Check it out.
__________________ "Everyone should believe in something. I believe I will go fishing" --- Henry David Thoreau
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regulators are great boats,not extremely wet ,but you will get wet in the right conditions , i fished my friend's regulator this year was very impressed . I have also fished Cats out as far as 100 miles out ,and they do handle seas better than v bottom boats in rough head seas ,but you will also get wet under the right conditions. I think your waters are colder than NJ waters . CC boats are great summer day boats ,but not very good late season ,or early season boats ,you will freeze your balls off belive me ,i been there. And they will also make you uncomfortable since you will get wet ,remember offshore in 6 to 8 footers can make it a very long trip if there is little separation between waves. NO SHELTER MEANS A VERY MISERABLE TIME.
regulators are great boats,not extremely wet ,but you will get wet in the right conditions , i fished my friend's regulator this year was very impressed . I have also fished Cats out as far as 100 miles out ,and they do handle seas better than v bottom boats in rough head seas ,but you will also get wet under the right conditions. I think your waters are colder than NJ waters . CC boats are great summer day boats ,but not very good late season ,or early season boats ,you will freeze your balls off belive me ,i been there. And they will also make you uncomfortable since you will get wet ,remember offshore in 6 to 8 footers can make it a very long trip if there is little separation between waves. NO SHELTER MEANS A VERY MISERABLE TIME.
24-26ft twin powered Off Shore CC's 
beam or the 23, 24 or 27 World Cat. All boats are a trade off so you are going to have to take a ride. Some don't like the sneezing, tunnel slap or beam sea chop in a cat. You may want to go to the world cat forum hosted on their website and do some reading.
