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Is there a number that you can call directly to honda for service questions? I have been to three mechanics and am tired of paying for their best guesses. Let's see, nothing wrong-bad thermostat-bad fuel-bad prop-water in the gas-rebuild the carbs----all the while I am paying them for the new parts and the service and it is still not fixed.
Honda Dude is actually Eric Peterson, who has a Southern California Honda franchise called Specialty Marine. You can find them at www.specialty-marine.com/
Eric definitely knows his stuff and does post here. First, you need to be a specific as possible in describing the symptoms your engine is having. Obviously, several people have tried several things without success. But please understand that it is hard to diagnose some things at a distance and that Eric, like everyone else, does not want to wind up in the middle of a battle.
It sounds as if the engine is well out of warranty if it has carbs. Where are you located?
Am located in NH. Engine is about ten years old. 90 horse. Boat usually runs fine til I get really far from shore then hesitates at high rpms. Once it starts it usually does it all the way in. It affects the top end speed and rpm's. The mechanic thougt that the boat at 6000 or more rpms was closing in on the high speed rev limits thus causing the surge-hesitation. Suggested a new prop with a higher pitch. New prop has the rpms topping out at 5200 but top end speed seems to have been cut from 38 to no more that 30. To make matters worse it did the hesitation, surge thing again.
1 water in gas has been eveyones first guess. have drained the tank, and taken a spare tank with fresh fuel and have put it on the engine when it was acting up. did not seem to help, ran the spare dry with no appreciable difference.
2 have replaced the primer bulb and added water seperator and changed the smaller, on engine filter
3 have opened up the filler cap while underway and engine was acting up
4 have changed all sparks
5have had mixture screws adjusted
6have had thermostat and popup valve replaced
7impeller replaced
8have treated fuel with Star tron
9engine is putting out the correct voltage
The mechanics best next guess is to rebuild all four carbs...my question is if the carbs are faulty would'nt it make sense that the engine would act up all the time not after an hour of running great? I suspect it is something silly like a part that is heating up and grounding out or something. It has never failed to start or get me home but there is always that fear. I take my sons on these trips and I can just read the headlines. Boat with three people aboard fails to show up==mechanical problems for over two years. That right it has gone on for two years. Biggest problem is that no mechanic has run it long enough for the symptoms to show up.
Sounds more electical , Coil, kill switch or something simple.
Help will be along soon.
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I can fully understand your frustration. My year 2000 BF90 had a miss at 1500 rpm since new. Since 1500 rpm is the best speed for traversing my harbor, Marina del Rey, it was very annoying. Every time I brought the engine in for service my dealer kept telling me that the miss was caused by the transition from the low speed to high speed jets and that there was nothing he could do about it. After a few years (and after the warranty expired) I decided to bring my rig up to Oxnard and have the engine serviced by Eric Peterson (Honda Dude). I mentioned the 1500 RPM miss to him, he ran some tests and reported that the carbs needed to be cleaned and to come back in two hours. Two hours later, and to this day, no more mis.
Moral of the story, some dealers are better bullshitters than mechanics.
I can fully understand your frustration. My year 2000 BF90 had a miss at 1500 rpm since new. Since 1500 rpm is the best speed for traversing my harbor, Marina del Rey, it was very annoying. Every time I brought the engine in for service my dealer kept telling me that the miss was caused by the transition from the low speed to high speed jets and that there was nothing he could do about it. After a few years (and after the warranty expired) I decided to bring my rig up to Oxnard and have the engine serviced by Eric Peterson (Honda Dude). I mentioned the 1500 RPM miss to him, he ran some tests and reported that the carbs needed to be cleaned and to come back in two hours. Two hours later, and to this day, no more mis.
Moral of the story, some dealers are better bullshitters than mechanics.
it is more like certified techs that are up-2-date
problems is some dealers are cheap and will not pay the $ or good techs
i have found this out at more than 1 shop that i used to work for
reason i started my own mobile service for now until i get out of this country
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What kind of boat and what type of gas tank to you have.
With a Honda, chances are that there is gunk floating around in one of the carbs. Next time you have this problem, pop the cowling and then disconnect each of the spark plug wires, one at time, replacing the wire before pulling the next one. If you pull a plug and the engine DOES NOT run rougher, then there's something wrong with that cylinder. Most likely it's the carb. However, coils are the hottest part of the electrical system and typically won't exhibit signs of failure until they get hot. On your engine there is one coil feeding 2 cylinders, so if you have 2 bad cylinders (as evidenced from the spark plug test) and those cylinders are both fed from the same coil, then I would suspect a bad coil.
Honda dude...would you care to comment on Honda carbs and whether they are able to be cleaned. I was told by a dealer and backed up with a quick E-Mail from Honda that the carbs on Hondas have such small orifices that they are alnmost impossible to clean and if soaked the nitrile swells making the chokes inoperable.
I'll try the cylinder check. Was out today and the boat ran great for twenty five miles and them a few over=under revs. trolled for tuna and hooked up within thirty minutes and lost it after forty minutes at the boat. the leader snapped. had to return to port due to four to six foot seas. six miles per hour and twenty five miles to port. boat ran great though on the return trip
the passages on the 4 stroke carbs are very small and can be troublesome to clean, some cannot be cleaned and require replacement, the last time i price checked a yamaha 50 hp they were @ $1000.00 ea parts only. that was 2002 motor, the owner decided not to spend the money.
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I have the same engine. I would lsten to Honda Dude. Obviously, depending on your boat's transom configuration, and on how smooth your rear cowling latch operates, you might want to remove the cowling before you leave home port. My carbs have been somewhat touchy over the years, but in your case, I really like his coil idea, due to the heating correlation with your problem. If it was just floating carb gunk or dirty passages it seems likely that (if floating gunk) at least sometimes you'd have the problem sooner than you do and if dirty passages, I'd expect a consistent problem at a given RPM or whatever, without much regard for how warm/hot the engine was, etc.
The only thing I'd add to what he said has to do with fuel line leaks, specifically at the external filter. I see you said you added a water separator, but that was after you had been having the problem. However, do you also have an external fuel filter (Racor-type) and have you had it since before the trouble started? I ask because they can leak air (allow air entry) at several spots, particularly around the drain plug, and when this happens, loss of power, usually intermittently, is the result, worse as load/RPM's increase. If you don't have such a filter, or if your testing with the spare tank bypassed it, then disregard my suggestion, obviously.
The carbs can definitely be cleaned, up to a point. Removal isn't a bad job, and it is worth a try, as it is a lot cheaper than new carb(s.) About removal, the usual way is to remove the intake piece with all four carbs mounted, and then proceed with carb removal, disassembly and cleaning on the bench.
Good luck....this kind of crap is maddening, especially paying "pros" over and over not to fix it.
KeyPineSavage - 9/1/2008 1:49 AM Good luck....this kind of crap is maddening, especially paying "pros" over and over not to fix it.
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pros dont work for $10.00-15.00 hrly, forgetaboutit.
Mac
Don't get your "$10-15 per hour" statement. I didn't mention it, and the original poster said he had been to mechanics but I don't think said what he paid. I assume it was a lot more than $15/hour. ????
I do not get the 10-15 thing either. In fact I have invested over fifteen hundred dollars in pursuit of this problem. If it is carb orifice cleaning what is the stuff that everyone seems to rave about. Seafoam or something? As for as the water seperator it is mounted below the deck on the stern. It is a racor type with the clear bowl and a spigot on the bottom. Other than the small disposable fuel filter on the engine that is it. How could you verify a leak in the fuel delivery system? Just redo all the plumbing? The spare tank test did go around this water seperator. The spare was mounted directly to the engine. Honda Dude thanks for your pm last month. If it was the coil, and it was bad, would it underperform a few miles per hour or would it be really bad? I mean if the coil controls two cyinders wouln't it almost be running at half or less? The other thing that you mentioned was that stuff could be floating around in one of the carbs. In the bowl? And couln't that be checked easily? Once I find out what carb.
thats what the "Tech's" earn at most dealerships, although they charge $100.00 and more thats all they pay, i am just saying dont expect much from a $15.00 hrly tech, most times you will be better served with an independent that carries many years of exp with em, imo.
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