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I know I am getting ahead of myself but I have two interested parties in my boat and may have a sea trial or two this week or next. Being that I am going to hold on the firmer side of my price as I dont have to sell my boat I may be even wasting my time pondering this but thought I should at least start kicking things around. If (and a big if) my boat sells and I have a Judge Yachts 27 Chesapeake built I will need to decide on my power choice. It will be between a 225 Honda and 250 zuke as that is what Judge will prerig from the factory. Both are about the same price. Do to the DTS and demand the additional $3500+ isnt (2 stations) worth me considering the 300 zuke Nor do I want the cost, maintenance or weight of twins, so dont bring it up. .
Here are my uses. I am a near shore, big bay fisherman who occassionally runs offshore. A 20-30 mile run for me is long. any further and I am likely to trailer to a closer ramp. I will run 30 miles or so to St,. Michaels or other cruising locations on the bay as well. However, I spend most my engine hours trolling and not running.
While I dont have full performance numbers yet on the each power option, I do know that the 225 Honda boat tops out at ~38mph and the 250 zuke tops out at around 41-42mph range, both with regular loads. I have also been told that at 25mph that the Honda gets a little better fuel mileage. I am not sure of the mpg's at faster cruises yet but I have been told that at 25mph the Honda yields over 3mpg. I hope to get more performance numbers on the hull with each power option.
Concerns and other factors:
1. Honda has a 5 year non-declining warranty vs current zuke 3 year warranty
2. Judge has more of a history of rigging with Honda as they are a new zuke dealer (both are said to be great motors though)
3. larger prop and more hp of the zuke could be nice in following sea (climbing waves) and faster cruise on nice days.
4. more locations tend to service zuke from what I see but Judge is in MD and can/will service either for me.
Judges are similar in hull design to my current boat with a warped hull design (shallow transom deadrise and sharp entry) so the boats are very efficient and can be powered with large singles. They plane off at slow speeds. In case you are not familiar, this is the boat:
I have a 2006 Suzuki 250 and have had great service with it through about 400 hours. I believe you will find in overall performance the discriminator is the 16”diameter prop that will apply the torque more efficiently than the Honda 225 with a 15.25” diameter prop. Saying that, both are fine engines and the real difference may be in the quality of your local servicing agent. P.S. Parts are sometimes hard to come by for the Suzuki because they have enjoyed such rapid popularity.
I think you would be fine with either. Seems like a lot of boat to be pushing with those hp numbers, but sounds like you've done your homework there. I have about 100 hours on my DF-250 and zero regrets, but I'm sure there are lots of honda owners with the same experience. I am VERY happy with availibility of parts and info for the suzuki online, the service manual is well written, and the engine has a nice simple (as simple as EFI 4 stroke can be) design. I also think that with their success over the last couple years, we'll see a solid knowledgebase developing around the engines which is great.
You didn't mention how many hours per year you log per year? I have seen some absurdly good fuel economy numbers from the DF-300 but don't know if they are reality...but if you put a LOT of hours on, you might make that $$ back up real quick. Also I would think the second station would be a big plus for digital controls.
Last but not least - that's a shame about the warranty differences. I made my dealer offer up his first born child if he could not get me into the 6 year suzuki warranty. In today's market I would expect the same - and to me it was worth potentially missing a few months of boating to get a 6 year, instead of 3 year, warranty.
Good point. I left out the hours. I generally average about 150 hours a year on my motor with most the summer on the hook or drift fishing.
Come on.. I need some biased arguements for one or the other. How do the service costs compare to one another? (dont wanna be killed on service like Yam does to their F-series owners) I know the Honda has a timing belt but is easy to adjust valves. I think the zuke has a timing chain but is a bear to adjust valves/ Which is more quiet and refined (my father's twin 130 Hondas are pretty sweet). If I run the Honda higher in the RPM band does it suck fuel when the v-tec kicks in. Right now my comfort level due to warranty and my father having Hondas says Honda but it is a large boat and like the thought of a large wheel and extra power. Just stinks that Honda doesnt have a 250hp motor....
Good point. I left out the hours. I generally average about 150 hours a year on my motor with most the summer on the hook or drift fishing.
Come on.. I need some biased arguements for one or the other. How do the service costs compare to one another? (dont wanna be killed on service like Yam does to their F-series owners) I know the Honda has a timing belt but is easy to adjust valves. I think the zuke has a timing chain but is a bear to adjust valves/ Which is more quiet and refined (my father's twin 130 Hondas are pretty sweet). If I run the Honda higher in the RPM band does it suck fuel when the v-tec kicks in. Right now my comfort level due to warranty and my father having Hondas says Honda but it is a large boat and like the thought of a large wheel and extra power. Just stinks that Honda doesnt have a 250hp motor....
I haven't had to ADJUST a bucket/shim valve assembly in over 300 motors. Some of these suzukis have over 5000 hours. The timing chain is self adjusting, more displacement, faster/more powerful holeshot, offset driveshaft, lighter weight, no belts or rocker arm valve assemblies, larger prop, DOHC vs. SOHC, VVT, IMO better dealer network.
I run a 28 Grady with twin Honda 225's. At cruise I am getting 2.1 mpg (26 mph) The engines are extremely quiet, I think quieter than my yamaha 115 4-stroke. I had to replace the o2 sensor on one of the engines at 120 hours. Apparently the exhaust on the engine is a little low and gets saltwater backwash when you come off of throttle. Honda apparently has an after market fix and maybe they have redesigned since 06. The engines are easy to maintain and I am happy with them overall
I have no expericence with the zuki. I have ran a boat with a honda bf 225 (twins). ran the boat from about 500hours up to 2500 hours. also being ran pretty dam hard daily too. I believe they are great motors. nothing has been done to the motors except routine maintainence, a water pump here and there, and throttle cable. They have been great motors and still running strong. I don't know about the Zuki but the Honda's won't even let you hurt them! if you get them to over heat, or suck air into the water inlet the will automatically ramp down. same with loss of oil pressure. the motor will ramp down automatically. you can't hurt them! it won't let you. i don't know if suzuki is the same or not? they very well might be. yeah there is a belt driven alternator, but its not like its blow belts up. there is a belt in your car isn't there?
__________________ B.O.A.T - Break out another thousand
I am a solid Honda guy but a 27' boat is a bunch .
Both are GREAT motors , I just wish honda had a 250 or 300 .
The honda will make 240+ HP at 6000 rpms , 225 at 5500 . I don't know what the Suki does at or has at those rpms .
What is the wet weight of that boat and can you go for a check ride on one with the Honda ?
And also check ride one with the Suki.
I would think the 300 Suk would be the cats azz...............
__________________ F350 4x4/ Dodge 2500HD 5.9L Cummins
Leaving the Picture of the Ford cuz I miss it
Pacific 2325 cc
Honda bf225
aluminumalloyboats.com
Yea, do ou own service and save lots of $$... I saw the OP mentioned stuff about getting beat up on service charges like Yami people... We just went from Yami to Suzuki and had the 20 hour service done by a tech just be safe, and it cost about the same.. Moral of the story, do it yourself... BTW, I love the Suzuki 300's. Awesome power and fuel economy..
I don't really understand the need to adjust valves on either engine, but my first pair of Honda 225's required it at 100 hours. They no longer do.
Many of the Honda parts are common to the Odyssey, I know of no such interchange with the Suzuki. The Honda 225 will get better fuel numbers than the Suzi 250, but the Suzi 300 will get better numbers than the 250. You are looking at a lot of boat for a Honda 225. It is still a lot for a Suzi 250 but it is just puurrrrffffeect for a Suzuki 300. The 300 is a great engine and was designed with fuel consumption as one of the big criteria.
With $5.00 gas a 2 mpg boat is $2.50 per mile. A 2.5 mpg boat is $2.00 per mile. If your average run is 20 to 30 miles, that is about $10 to $15 per trip, which makes every fifth trip free. If it takes an hour of running time to do the 20 or 30 miles, you'll pay back the $3,000 difference in about 250 hours.
B-Faithful....................It would sure seem, as others have noted that the DF-300 would be close to the perfect single for the 27 Judge.........you are welcomed to take mine out to try the guages and drive by wire controls.........they are slick, smooth and the motor overall is very impressive........I'm in Baltimore but am frequently in your neck of the woods........saw a rig like yours on Cornfield creek last Saturday afternoon......
I've owned a 200 honda (for 300+ hrs) and a 300 Zuke (for 110 hrs). Both were real good engines. I recommend that you take the offer--as it seems you are about to--and drive the Zuke. I may be in the minority, but I hated the digital gauges. Never could get fuel flow to work, annoying and hard to reset alarm system, too much useless data on the data buss, needed more gauges to display the info I need on an ongoing basis. It is a pita to change data display on any given gauge; really can't do it under-way. Designed by video-gamers for gamers rather than serious boaters.
Did not see anything special about fly-by-wire shifter/throttle. Have it on my current boat too; still nothing special.
The Zuke 300 was a plenty robust engine, shockingly quiet at very low speeds. Put the peddle down, and well, it sounds like 300 hp.
A lot of brilliant design features under the hood. But, not all Zuke dealers are trained to work on the 300, and even those who are have little experience, since there are not many 300's around. The only dealer near you to trust with this engine is Danny's in Cambridge MD--they are great.
I hear parts are a problem with Zuke--there are plenty of complaints on THT.
I liked my Honda alot, but was sorry I didn't get the 225 which has Vtec. My brother-in-law has a pair of 225s, and I think they are great. You can hear the Vtec kick in about 4000+ rpm, and the fuel burn increases.
Honda gauges look low-tec, but display really good, stright-forward info. The Honda ran flawlessly during the year I owned it. Oil changes only. Ran than boat everywhere, in places and conditions that caused me to buy a full-on offshore liferaft. Engine inspired ultimate confidence. Solid, reliable, pretty quiet at speed. Liked the automobile heritage--lots of folks can work on this engine, although dealer support on your side of the Bridge is limited. Several good dealers on Kent I.
Fuel burn was real good. No wiz-bang features, just a solid reliable engine that you will never wear out. GREAT warantee.
You may want a 4-blade prop if you put this engine on the Judge.
Thanks for comparison. I have DTS on my Merc and love it but it isnt a deal maker or breaker for me. Fuel flow numbers are imortant to me though (would add floscan)
Funny you mention a 4 blade prop with the Honda as I believe Judge is rigging them with 4 bladers. (one of the advantages to the Honda is that Judge has been rigging them a long time) I am curious to see the fuel burn numbers on the Honda when running a little hard. I also would like to know how it does with either pushing on a following sea. Before I make a final decision I hope to see trial a boat with each power. I just wanted to get some of the thoughts and arguements for either.
Here is boat I took a photo of at their shop with a Honda. They appear to have a 4 blader on there:
Thanks for comparison. I have DTS on my Merc and love it but it isnt a deal maker or breaker for me. Fuel flow numbers are imortant to me though (would add floscan)
If you are talking about the Honda, just order their digital gauges which include fuel management. I got them on my boat and have 1 1/2 seasons on them and they have been flawless, fuel burn numbers are very accurate.
225 Honda vs 250 Zuke 
