*THE HULL TRUTH is the world's largest FREE network for the discussion of Boating & Fishing. Whether you're researching a new boat, or are a seasoned Captain, you'll find The Hull Truth Boating & Fishing Message Forum contains a wealth of information from Boaters and Sportfishermen around the world.
Welcome to the updated THT!
If you are having trouble signing in, please email feedback@thehulltruth.com with your username and we will help you. We thank you for your patience as we help you access the new site!
I'm hoping I can get some feedback and suggestions to some questions I have regarding my first boat purchase. First things first, I'd like to comment on the fact that I've spent a fair amount of time with friends as a recreational boater over the last 10 years (usually out 10-12 weekends every season). Since I don't drink alcohol at all, I always end up being the one to pilot the boat almost all of the time. I have experience with boats (mostly cruisers) between 25-35 ft in length. Dealing mostly in protected waterways and keeping the boat usually within 25 miles of shore. I'm familiar with docking boats and piloting in and out of tight marinas (with no incidents, crashes, nudges, or running any boats aground to date.)
I'm finally ready to buy my own boat, but the comments and suggestions I get seem to be geared towards more recreational day-boating rather than what I'm looking for. My fiancee and I are interested in purchasing a boat for cruising. We're interested in purchasing a boat that has the ability to take us down to Florida (key west) from New York (Hudson Valley). We'll be spending most weekends during the summers going from the Hudson Valley to destinations within 200 miles. In the fall, we're planning on taking the boat down to Florida (over the course of a week to 10 days) in preparation for our soon to be annual cruise to the bahamas from the Miami area. After the cruise through the bahamas, we'd be putting the boat into drydock for maintenance during the Jan-Mar months in preparation for our spring voyage back to the New York Area (where she will live from Mar-Sept).
That about describes what we'd like to do with the boat we're currently in the market to purchase. Now that I've described our desires, I'm hoping I can get some realistic suggestions on what we should be looking for (boat wise).
1. What size boat should we be looking for? Our goal is to cruise no further than 500 miles (EVER) in one direction on any journey. We've been told by numerous people we'd need a good "ocean" boat and the smallest we should be looking for is 40 feet. We plan on making the boat our "floating condo". I plan on doing some fishing, but it's really more of a cruising condo we're looking for. Fishing for me can happen off the bow or the aft deck (even if it's not too big). Our main concern is comfort and living space, but in reality, a 40' boat shouldn't pose those problems (that I can see). I've heard many different things about ride and safety with regards to boat size in the ocean. I'd like to purchase something that will get me to my destination safely (mostly east coast US cruising), but I don't want to suffer or regret getting caught in a storm. I do realize that safe boating and experience are important, but my experience is with smaller boats (less than 35') in "protected" waters (25 miles or less from shore).
2. I plan on taking a few boating courses and hiring a few good, experienced, captains to train me the first season (and even accompany me on a few trips once he/she feels I am capable of taking the boat to a destination ~100-200 miles away). What is the best way to find and "vet" out experience? It seems everyone's an expert and offering his/her skills, but I'd really like to know where I can find someone truly qualified.
3. I've noticed that most boat owners can't really quantify what the range of a boat is (as it's based on engines, sea-conditions, boat type, etc), but I'm looking for something that can safely get me from Miami to the Bahamas without me worrying about running out of fuel (because the weather got bad). Is it safe to assume that any boat with direct-drive and twin diesels can get me to my destination with room to spare? I've looked at boats and it seems that around 40-42 foot, I'd get 130nm (on average) in range while a 45-50 footer seems to double that range. Is that a safe assumption or am I just smoking crack?
4. While I plan on learning and practising safe and experienced boating, an auto-pilot is something I'm putting on my list of "must haves". Are they relatively reliable or will I all of a sudden realize I'm 300 miles out to sea in the completely wrong direction? Will GPS + Autopilot pretty much guarantee to put me in the general vicinity most of the time? I'm worried about this as being stranded in the middle of the ocean could lead to dire consequences I'd like to avoid. I do plan on keeping a handheld GPS unit as a backup with me at all times (in addition to an additional radio + satellite phone).
5. I've noticed many boats in the 40-45 foot range don't have dinghys, but boats 45-50 almost always seem to have them + davits. How important are they in the type of cruising I'm planning on doing? I was also wondering if I could avoid transient moorage fees in certain situations. I'm assuming I can just drop anchor a bit outside the marina (maybe 1000 ft from the marina) and use the dinghy if need be? (in circumstances where room isn't available). Is that a reasonable assumption?
6. My budget is about $220,000.00 (but that's seriously pushing it on the high end of my budget as I'd have to finance a good portion of that). Is it reasonable to get something for my needs within that range? I know it'll be used, but I've been looking and it seems I can get something. Am I wrong? or are there some types / brands of boats I should stay away from?
I know this is alot to ask, but the people I've spoken to seem to all be boat salespeople and recreational boaters who don't do much cruising (going from New York to Miami / Bahamas) in their boats. They're more the day-tripper type and I feel the answers I'm getting from them don't seem to apply to my situation. Like I said, safety is #1 for me and I just want to make sure I'll be buying the right boat for my needs. I don't seem to find many people who use their boats in the way I'm planning on using mine. I have plenty of protected waters experience and docking a 35' cruiser feels like second nature to me, but I worry that I'm missing the "open waters" experience, hence the training from a seasoned captain.
Any experience / suggestions would be very welcome and thanks in advance.
I was looking at Motor Yachts (something with an enclosed cabin). or am I looking at the wrong type of boat? We're more interested in living comfortably and using the boat as a means of transportation while docked at a marina at our destination. I'd love a hattaras, but they're way out of my range. (even used). After many talks with the fiancee, we're definitely trying to stay away from cruisers.
The range figures that you are quoting seem very low.
I would think that any 40 footer w/ twin diesels would have a range of 300 - 500 NM (unless your #s are "one way")
A motor yacht is a choice of style, but quite frankly in your price range you will be talking used (and not really a "late model") and with a tremendous amount of upkeep - just in onboard systems alone. Unless very mechanically inclined - you will need a sizeable budget for upkeep and maintenance - and even if mechanically inclined - parts can be expensive. A motor yacht in the 40 foot range, will probably have 2 heads, 60+ gallons of fresh water, hot water heater, etc. Just the plumbing system alone is a several thousand dollars and with your budget you will be getting a boat that is probably 10+ years old and every system on the boat is going to require work regularly - especially with they type of usage you are talking. And with they type of usage that you are talking about - you need to have all systems operating and in good shape. A floating condo is one thing. A floating condo that you plan to put 4000 miles a year on is something else.
I would also look at ocean going trawlers, but again your budget is going to limit you. I am not sure if what you are looking for really exists unless you are prepared to do a major refit - with you doing the majority of the work or you will rapidly blow your budget.
Your best bet is a used trawler or motor yacht, or even a convertible (smaller inside, but can be comfortable for 2 and will be faster and more fishable) look for an older boat with newer power. Find the absolute best surveyor you can, and not meaning to burst your bubble, but unless you are capable of doing a lot of the work yourself, it may not be attainable. Besides the engines. You have to look at possibly needing to re-do the plumbing, electrical - including a generator (especially if planning on mooring at some destinations) re-vamping electronics, etc.
also - item # 4 on your list. Even with an A/P you do not leave your helm unattended and you should "paper plot" all legs ahead of time - especially if traversing open ocean. You should know what your heading is and should be and your approximate location. You can use the electronic to do it for you , but you need to verify position regularly and update it on the chart.
You sound like a perfect candidate for a used Sea-Ray. First off, I am not a dealer or a broker, I am a professional captain with more Fl-Bahamas-NY trips under my belt than I can count. Now before the rest of you go on a tirade about how you wouldn't leave the ICW on a Sea-Ray, let me explain.
First, you can get a 40-45 foot twin diesel boat with not too many hours on it within the price range.
Second, for a novice blue water boater it is plenty of boat for fair weather passages to the Bahamas. These boats come equipped with all of the electronics you need, and are quite comfortable dockside for extended periods. Also, Sea-Ray has the best service network around, and provide many resources to their owners such as group flotillas to the Bahamas etc.
Finally, in this market you can steal a used one. Any model you want, go to Yachtworld.com and there a dozens available.
The down side...The boats are fair quality, light weight, and not suitable for extreme weather. They depreciate rapidly and are difficult to sell because of the volume of boats on the market. But, for a starter boat, it's a good choice. The other option is to buy a significantly older boat of better quality. However, that comes with higher maintenance and fewer creature comforts. Sea Ray are not the highest quality, but they generally put good equipment on them. I cannot stress this final point enough......GET A GOOD SURVEYOR!!!
Many of these boats have been thrashed by clueless weekend warriors that don't know the definition of maintenance.
Bottom line...A lot of boat for the money if you find a good one. Good Luck.
__________________ 43' Hatteras BACKSTRETCH Flagler Beach, FL
Interestingly enough, I'm a general contractor by trade with an electrical engineering degree. I've looked at the plumbing and electrical systems and boats and it's definitely something i'm more than capable of redoing / repairing. The only things i'll need help with regarding the maintenance of the boats will probably be the engine work if needed and hull work. Plumbing, pumps, electrical and interiors are all things I'm capable of doing. I've replumbed and installed bilge pumps and re-installed a complete head for a friend of mine (he was quoted $18k), but I did it for a case of beer, his help, and about $5000 for supplies / parts in two weekends. Electrical doesn't seem to difficult (as I know enough about high and low voltage systems) to replace wires and power centers. I do plan on having a complete survey done on the boat prior to purchasing anything. I have noticed that prices are down significantly over a year ago. So in reality (unless I'm completely missing something), I should be capable of doing most work except for engine work (for which I have a great mechanic buddy) and hull work (holes, blemishes, painting, waterproofing[grin]).
That being said, you can't go wrong with an older Hatteras with rebuilt mains and a new genset. Don't be afraid of a late 70's early 80's vintage. It's a buyers market, you might get a good one in your price range.
__________________ 43' Hatteras BACKSTRETCH Flagler Beach, FL
HIBANX, I'm concerned with nasty weather. I've read and heard of stories of clueless boaters and even met a few of them. I don't know how many times I've literally had to wrestle the keys from friends because they've been drinking. While I'm no super sea-captain (far from it), I can definitely maneuver a 35 footer into a tight slip with relative ease. I once heard a "golden rule" from a boater at a yacht club I've taken to heart; "Check the weather and don't even consider going out if it's not clear skies and calm for the next 24 hours". I plan on exercising that rule as my mantra. While all the preparation in the world can help prevent nasty situations, I'm still concerned with being caught in 15-20 foot swells due to murphy's law. The most important thing for me is to get the right balance between comfort, utility, and the ability to weather the *not* so occasional freak storm. So my question is.. will a 40' sea-ray jeopardize my safety more than a 40' hattaras? While I know the hattaras will be the better constructed boat (from research), will a sea-ray be more prone to being capsized in the same nasty weather as a hattaras? I know that the most important things to boating safely are experience, preparation, and maintenance, but I just want to make sure that buying one brand over another isn't going to kill me, because of construction quality.
Also.. am I asking the right questions so far or am I totally missing the point? This is going to be the second largest investment of my life (the house being my first), but I'm not willing to jeopardize my life or anyone else's for a couple of bucks and stupidity. (grin)
In my experience, and I have run Sea-Rays and Hatteras' among others, the Sea-Ray won't kill you, but you might have to make more repairs to the little things when you get there. Once you become adept at interpreting the marine forecasts, there is no reason you should ever be caught in 15-20 foot seas. NOAA is particularly good at predicting the seas between S. FL and the Bahamas. Once learn the capabilities of your boat and your comfort level, you can stay within it. Traveling up and down the east coast and to the Bahamas you are never more than a few hours from safe harbor. I have never found NOAA forecasts to be that wrong within 24 hours. Most people get into trouble when they are on a tight schedule and go to sea when the forecast is marginal. The only times I have been out in weather I wasn't comfortable with was when I had to be somewhere on a certain date or a nasty thunderstorm develops unexpectedly. The key is to have alternative plans. Know where the closest safe harbor is at all times. Don't be a hero, you can always turn around. There is a vast difference between coastal cruising and passagemaking. Unless you plan to go beyond the Bahamas to the carribbean and beyond, you remain in the coastal cruising category. A passagemaking boat is nice to have, but overkill for what you are doing.
On another note, within the coastal cruising category, most of the boats out there are safe and stable. The biggest differences lie in comfort. Most all of them will get you there, the poor ones will have you licking your wounds and picking up the broken dishes, but relatively intact. Generally, the heavier boats (hatteras, bertram, etc) will be a better ride but you sacrifice the speed that a lightweight provides. Hope this helps.
__________________ 43' Hatteras BACKSTRETCH Flagler Beach, FL
So it sounds like the Sea-Ray would be ok. I didn't realize that going to the Bahamas wasn't considered a long-haul. I've always figured that was considered open seas and ocean-liner territory. Would a 40 foot searay be able to go from Miami ------> Bahamas -------> Turks / Caicos (obviously with fuel stops and fill-ups) comfortably? or am I tempting fate? My second greatest fear is running out of fuel and drifting in the middle of god knows where. OK, maybe I've seen too many boating disaster movies (perfect storm et. al) and I'm probably being overly cautious, but it's probably safer to be paranoid than overly confident.
One "Dream" is to basically travel the eastern seaboard, through the Gulf of Mexico, down through Central America and *maybe* head over to Jamaica and back to Miami over a few months. Obviously, I wouldn't even attempt anything like that until I felt much more comfortable with my sea-faring skills, but it'd be nice to have a boat that could do it when I decided to. That, for now, is a pipe dream, but it's something my Fiancee and I have discussed as a pretty real possibility a few years into boat ownership. If I can't do it with a 40 foot searay or comparable, that's ok too. After all, we can't have it all.
Just out of curiousity, with a 40' Searay and dual diesels, what kind of range and cruising speed can i expect out of a full tank? (obviously, size of engine, sea conditions, and other things like that are all factors), but in fairly calmish seas (sane weather), is it safe to assume I could coax 350 miles out of a tank without much effort? or would you say I'm pushing the upper limits there? I really appreciate all the responses I've gotten from this posting from everyone and would like to thank everyone who has contributed so far. I know I'm just in the evaluation phase, but we're planning on making a purchase in January-Februaryish of next year and would like to know we've made a great purchase based on sound advice and diligent research. Ironically, I never do anywhere near this level of research on a purchase usually, but there's something about purchasing a boat that's scaring the hell outta me. It's not the financial commitment (although that in itself is an anxiety attack on it's own *lol*), but the potential for disaster by being improperly equipped and prepared on a voyage in the middle of the ocean. heh.
During the summer months people make it to the bahamas in small boats all the time. Just watch the weather. YOu can see people crossing in 21' and smaller boats frequently. A 40' boat should have no problem, but always watch the weather. Its only 40 some miles from Miami to Bimini.
__________________ Boats:
96 26' Monza twin 250XS optimax
89 Scarab 302 (For SALE!) http://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-sa...89-8000-a.html
"when I gun the engine I want it to sound like the world is coming to an end"
300 to 350 miles on a tank is quite feasible. The beauty of the Bahamas is like the ucf said, from Miami its only a 2 hr ride on a nice day to Bimini. From there, one again picking your weather, you can get to the Abacos or Nassau in about 6- hours in a 25 knot Sea-Ray. That first leg is across the gulf stream, which can be the most treacherous part. So you wait for a good forecast, then go. You won't be more than 25 miles, or an hour or so from safe harbor. As far as runing out of fuel. There are plenty of fuel stops throughout the Bahamas.....if you can afford it.
__________________ 43' Hatteras BACKSTRETCH Flagler Beach, FL
Seeking Advice and Suggestions 
