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Old 05-28-2008, 04:17 PM
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Default Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Hey guys. I'm a first time boater in Clearwater, FL about to take the plunge. I'm leaning towards a powered cat so I can go offshore and inshore. I'm looking at two boats right now and would appreciate any input you guys may have about which one I should lean towards.

The 2000 model year Seagull is currently owned by the original owner in Jax area. The boat is very clean with no bottom paint and it has two outboards - Suzuki DX70 4 strokes. The motors have high hours (700 hrs each), but they have been well maintained. The boat is clean. The seller says the Seagull rides smooth and dry (he's selling his Seagull becuase he bought a 25' cat. Seller claims that becuase the Seagull doesn't have an inner liner like on a Prokat, it has much more fishable space space than the Prokat 20' or even a Prokat 22"! The seller is asking $18k including a trailer in good shape.

The other boat is a single screw 2006 model year Prokat also 20'. This one has a Suzuki 140HP 4 stroke. This Prokat is also in the Jax area. The boat & motor have low hours (a little over 200 hours).

A boating friend recommends the Prokat since I am a first time boater. He says that if I ground it and damage the lower unit, I only have to replace one lower unit instead of two. Plus he says that the single screw boat is easier to learn on than a twin screw.

The cons are that a single screw boat doesn't have redundancy. If I go offshore 30 or 40 miles and the sole motor craps out, I'm calling Seatow. With the twin screw, if one motor fails, I'm just coming back in a little slower on one motor. For all I know, it may not even be safe to take a single screw boat out that far even though the Suzuki 140 HP 4 stroke should be pretty reliable. FYI, in the beginning, I plan to only go out with experienced boaters & yes I plan to take a Coast Guard approved boating class before I hit the gulf.

I would appreciate any thoughts you guys may have about either boat that might help me in my decision.

Thanks!

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Old 05-28-2008, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

The seagulls have plywood decks so make sure they haven't absorbed any water as this is a common problem. In any case, $18K seems high. This company has been out of buisness for a long while.

The Prokats have never been a worry free product either, but I feel its higher sides are more suitable for offshore work. Seatow is available, so I would not be worried about a single engine unless I was going to fish in isolated areas. Hard to give more advice as you didn't mention a price on this one. And this company has never been known for good warranty service IMO.

Have you looked at Caracals? Used Seacat 25's can be had in the low $20's.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

I love my Seagull. I do not have the Nautico however. My boat was made in Naples and has a full liner and no wood in the hull. It also has a single engine.

Single engines are fine offshore. Modern outboards are reliable. I do offshore often. Not all the way to Bimini, but I do get out in the Gulf Stream. No problem.

That price may or may not be too high. I paid $17,800 for my Seagull a little over a year ago. It is a 1999 model. The engine had a lot less than 700 hours on it however.

Fuel burn with twin 70s will be nice. It will not cost you a million bucks to go out for the day. The Seagull is a nice riding boat, for its size.

The Pro Kat 20 is based on the same mold as the Seagull. Sort of. There are differences in the two. What I notice the most between my boat and a 20cc Pro Kat is that the Pro Kat has more deadrise at the stern (my Seagull flattens out at the transom - not counting the tunnel of course) and the Pro Kat lacks the floor lockers I have. The lacking floor lockers sucks - I really like my floor boxes. There is a lot of storage in the things so my deck stays clutter free. The more dead rise is probably good.

Like Bullshipper said - check WELL for soft spots in the deck. Wood in the hull is not bad, boats have used wood for thousands of years. But wood can rot and if water does get under the fiberglass it can be an issue.

You can probably work on getting that $18k asking price down. If the guy has another boat he really needs to unload that Gull.

You are going to love the power cat. I am never going back to a single hull again if I can help it.
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

wnruffing

Nobody here knows as much as Bull about cats, but the Mexican sun might be getting to him a little in regard to Seagulls, Nauticos and ProKat 2000's. See my answer to him next.

I have a Seagull 20 which is the slightly more upscale version of the Nautico you are looking at. The Seagull is a wood-free boat which, as Bull notes, the Nautico is not. I don’t know if the Prokat 2000 has wood or not. I would have the Nautico checked for water, especially in the deck. The Lazy Iguana who has just posted you an answer and I have the same boat, though his is a year or two newer and has a bigger (but less reliable — heh, heh) motor.

ProKat has a generally very dicey quality rep on this board, although a number of owners like their boats. Issues I am aware of have been more in the larger boats than in the 2000. I personally would not buy a ProKat boat. Do some searches of the posts here and form your own opinion.

Just so you know, Bull is also wrong about the hullsides. ProKat actually ended up owning the Seagull/Nautico molds, and their 2000, in its hull shape, is IDENTICAL to the other two except for some minor differences at the transom. The interior is different, and so is how they distributed the weight, but the hulls are exactly the same. (Except, of course, single on one, twins on the other.)

I am not fond of the Caracal (much smaller feeling boat) that Bull recommends, and I have looked at them and found the quality, while adequate, to be basically Carolina Skiff. The Sea Cat 25 which he mentions, on the other hand, or its sister the Sea Cat 21 are in my opinion great older boats.

I looked at all these in this price range and chose the Seagull (I should mention that the “real” Seagull was a single engine boat, which is also how ProKat configures it, while the Nautico and the Sea Cats are twins) and after two years have absolutely no regrets. If you can ride in both your choices, definitely do so. I would not buy a cat without riding in it. They are all a little different. If the Nautico wood is OK, I think you would love it.

Final note, I think the supposed effect of a liner or no liner on fishability and single vs. twins are basically minor issues compared with how you like the condition of the hull, the ride, the quality of the build, etc.

Have fun hunting.
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:23 PM
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Default RE: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Bullshipper

Bull, to refresh your memory: the original Seagull company of Naples built two lines of boats, with identical molds. One was the Seagull (or the Seagull Seagull the other they made the mistake of calling the Seagull (company) Nautico (model.) To avoid confusion, they could have done better. The real Seagull Seagulls HAVE NO WOOD IN THE BOAT. This is a myth we fight all the time. The Nautico, on the other hand, as you say, has wood coring in the decks, the transom and in some spots in the hulls. Additionally, all Seagull Seagulls were built in Naples. Some of the early Nauticos were built in Mexico.

There have been NO hull problems with Seagulls, and none with later Nauticos built in the U.S., except in regard to the wood decks in the Nauticos. A Nautico should always be checked for water absorption, particularly as you note, in the deck.

About the hull sides. Bull, the ProKat 2000 is made from the Seagull/Nautico mold. The hull sides on all three boats, including their heights, are EXACTLY the same, from bow to stern, except they jiggered the transom a little. The molds went from original Seagull to reorganized Seagull to some other builder (name escapes me right now...they didn’t last long) to ProKat. There, that's the story as I know it.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Less reliable? I like my Optimax. I would like to have the 150 HP or even 175 HP Opti (all are the same weight, and while the 175 would be over the rating by 25 hp some "150" decals would take care of that). But all in all it is a good setup. I like the fact I can go out for a day and not burn 50 gallons of gas. Last time out I only used 12 gallons. The boat was loaded with people and stuff and was much heavier than usual - for it was a party cruise. So the engine had to work a little harder than usual.

I would also point out that the Seagull has the in floor fish boxes. The Pro Kat I saw at the 08 Miami Boat Show lacked the floor boxes. As a result the deck did seem to be lower in the hull. So maybe this is why Bullshipper said that the Pro Kat has higher sides. Freeboard is identical, but if you measure the height of the sides from the deck to the gunwale the Pro Kat may show more height. Without the fish boxes, the deck can sit lower in the hull. But freeboard is identical so offshore both boats should be similar in sea handling ability.

I agree you should try to sea trial both boats. Take a trip to Jax and put both boats in the water. Run them. Look em over well. Maybe even hire a surveyor in Jax to look at both boats. This way you will have a better idea of what you are looking at.

By the way, twin engines are great. You can do some neat things with twin engines. You can dock the boat without using the wheel for example.

Take a day trip to Jax on a day both sellers agree to water trial their boats. Then get the one you like best.

I would offer the sellers a few bucks to water test their boats. For their time and gas and any tolls and ramp fees and all. I think that is fair to the seller.

If you are lucky and pick the right day, the conditions will be less than perfect. You really need to get the boats in some chop to see the benefits of a cat.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

good info, good thread
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Thank you so much for your input on regarding the sea trials. I definitely will follow your suggestion. ANd yes, I agree it makes sense to offer to pay them for their troubles & gas.

Bill
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:59 PM
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Default RE: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

I'm not exactly sure how the feedback thing works here since I am new to threads and THEHULLTRUTH. I just wanted to thank you guys for your input and suggestions. It is so awesome that these public forums exist and that you can kick ideas around with guys that either have the same boat or know about the boats. That truly is awesome and will ultimately help me make a better decision with my boat.

Thanks again guys!

Bill
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Hi All. Great information and I just saw a Seagull this weekend, but not up close. based on all the information it appears that quality is higher than the Twinvee, but how does the ride compare. Also, is this a semi-displacement hull? Finally, what type of performance figures and does anyone know the approx trailer weight of the liner version?

Thank you in advance- sandlapper
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Old 06-02-2008, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Sandlapper

The Seagull hull is full planing, not semi-displacement. I like the Seagull ride better in rough stuff than the comparable sized TV's, but I generally don't like TV. Actually, TV's ride in chop is one of their better features, IMO. I think the Seagull rides better, particularly as the waves get higher, and in my mind there is no comparison in build quality, hardware quality, etc.

At least for the Seagull built by the original Seagull people in 1995-1999 (approx.) the weight of the liner version was 1600 lbs., dry, no motor and no motor rigging.
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Old 06-03-2008, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

KPS-

Thank you for the information and feedback. Hopefully things will work out so that I will be in a position to purchase a boat in the next couple of months and it looks like the Seagull fits several of the criteria I have. Although this mya be taboo on this board, any idea how the Seagull would pull a skier- I am wondering about wakes from two sponsons vs a mono.

Thank you again-
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

I'm happy with my 2006 20' ProKat with a 2006 Suzuki DF140. It is a bit underpowered, a 175 or 200 would be a better package for most people. My normal cruise is about 24MPH, flat out max is 31MPH. This is with full fuel [66gals], T-top, moderate amount of gear, and two people [400lbs]. I get about 3MPG. Quality of the ProKat seems to be more variable than a lot of brands, but I looked mine over and this one has been fine. You'll want trim tabs and will need to experiment with props -- after trying two PowerTech 4-blade stainless, one Johnson aluminum 3-blade, and one Solas Amita 4-blade aluminum -- I run the Solas as primary and Johnson as spare since the PowerTechs are fine but give me no better performance so I'm going to sell them off.

CudjoeDon
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Quote:
CudjoeDon - 6/3/2008 3:54 PM

I'm happy with my 2006 20' ProKat with a 2006 Suzuki DF140. It is a bit underpowered, a 175 or 200 would be a better package for most people. My normal cruise is about 24MPH, flat out max is 31MPH. This is with full fuel [66gals], T-top, moderate amount of gear, and two people [400lbs]. I get about 3MPG. Quality of the ProKat seems to be more variable than a lot of brands, but I looked mine over and this one has been fine. You'll want trim tabs and will need to experiment with props -- after trying two PowerTech 4-blade stainless, one Johnson aluminum 3-blade, and one Solas Amita 4-blade aluminum -- I run the Solas as primary and Johnson as spare since the PowerTechs are fine but give me no better performance so I'm going to sell them off.

CudjoeDon
THANKS for all those performance numbers.
Can you tell me more detail about why you want the trim tabs? I have a Caracal and wonder if I should eventually add them.
THanks again,
gordon
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

KeyPineSavage -- which Caracal did you look at? was it an older version or the latest liner version? The reason I'm asking is that I have one and I think the company is young and still improving but I'm very intersted in your observation.

gordon
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Quote:
SandlapperGT - 6/3/2008 9:38 AM

Although this mya be taboo on this board, any idea how the Seagull would pull a skier- I am wondering about wakes from two sponsons vs a mono.

Thank you again-
Sandlapper

Well, no taboo, but you may get a little crap. Not near as bad as asking a jetski question here, or talking about the running start at your last bass tourney, or how you and seven other guys with fluorescent Donzis, Profiles and Cigarettes made it to Bimini AND BACK in under three hours.

Can't find any of the good wake pix I've got on here somewhere, but basically on my boat -- and most of the single engine cats I've seen -- all three wakes, the two sponsons and the prop, all seem to merge into a single wake not too far behind the boat. Pretty much like a single engine mono. Might have to keep the skier back a little more, but otherwise I wouldn't think much difference, but I'm sure some here have some first hand experience with it.

Twin engine cats, the boats I've seen, you tend to have a little more of two separate wakes.
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Old 06-03-2008, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

The trim tabs help with the running angle without using the engine trim. Useful for getting on plane in shallow water. Also, single engine cats have some tendency to ventilate the prop, for me more often in following seas it seems. I can adjust the bow down without forcing the engine into a bad angle. On my boat the wakes join about 20' astern -- I can send you a picture that sort-of shows it.

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Old 06-03-2008, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Tunnel spray from most twin engine cats will make it difficult for skiers to see IMO.
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Old 06-03-2008, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

Quote:
ggibby - 6/3/2008 7:42 PM

KeyPineSavage -- which Caracal did you look at? was it an older version or the latest liner version? The reason I'm asking is that I have one and I think the company is young and still improving but I'm very intersted in your observation.

gordon
gordon

I don't really know exactly. It was used, but not very, on a consignment lot here. I think it was probably an '04 at the oldest, '06 or maybe '07 at newest. The fit and finish were decent, but I thought the glass was light, was pretty wavy to look at down the topsides, generally seemed just average in quality. I didn't mean to bash them based on this look, when I said "Carolina Skiff." After all, CS has sold an awful lot of them. Both this one and the one I rode in about two years ago when I bought my boat were the no liner ones. The boat two years ago was fairly new at the time.

The 18 Caracal just isn't a large-feeling boat, doesn't have a lot of space to my mind, but it doesn't claim to either. Also low sides; the hull is quite a bit like the TwinVee (hull size, I mean, not hull quality...though maybe TV is getting better.) I have been impressed by what both the owners and other shoppers have had to say about their dealings with the Caracal factory, in this thread and a couple of other threads lately.

ONe question you may know the answer to, when did Caracal go into production on their boat?
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Old 06-03-2008, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Seagull Nautico 20" vs. Prokat 2000C

I bought an 05 ProKat 2000 from someone on this board, I really like single cats and also have an 18 Sea Cat. I read all the stuff about Prokats but decided to buy it anyway. It was a great move - I LOVE this boat. Very good, functional layout for fishing. I have had it for 9 months and 225 hours of use.

The ride is very good but does sneeze a bit. The wiring is substandard but those are my ONLY gripes. A lot of boat for the money (used). I would put the quality level similar to a newer Trophy. Fit and finish is so so but everything is functional and through bolted.

Mine has a 175 suzuki and is powered perfectly. WOT is 39 knots with two guys,t-top, gear, ice and full tanks, 3-3.5 nmpg.

This cat also turns more like a mono (leans in) then my Sea Cat. Huge difference in ride over the 18'er. Everyone that fishes it (usually mono owners) are impressed with it.

This boat has a TON of storage, it does have floor lockers (wet storage). The previous owner put a nice seat/lean post with large 40+ gal bait tank combo on it and it makes the boat.

This one is a keeper.
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