For those who have been waiting for a diesel outboard, your ship has arrived....

[Wolakrab]

http://www.megoutboard.com/30L_vision.php

Do you think I should buy stock now?

[242AB]

From what I saw: Three HP models that all weigh the same. 723 Lbs for a 175, 225 or 300 HP version. On the test boat (22') with the 175 version (they dont say which HP, but it can be guessed from the 6 gph fuel burn stats) it runs WOT at under 40 MPH! I can't see this being a big seller on a smaller boat. Maybe it could work on a larger application where weight to HP ratio will be better.

Boy, what will all of the four strokers have to say about the "smoke". This could take that spotlight from the two strokers.

[wmalloy382]

This is from an article in soundings from about 2 months ago that covering this - Lots of good information .Claiming about 5.5 Miles per Gallon..which would be nice Article was written by From Chris Landy

Dawn of the diesel outboard?
Chris Landry

In a test run, a 2.3-liter prototype pulls its weight in fuel efficiency, power and noise levels

Glen Gardner and his son Don walked the floor of the Miami International Boat Show three years ago, taking in the big 4-stroke outboards. Mercury, Yamaha and Suzuki all had offerings of at least 250 hp.

“We started chatting back and forth and wondered why no one has come up with a diesel-powered outboard,” says Don Gardner, 27. “With today’s gas prices, it seemed crazy to us. After the show was over, we started researching the concept of a diesel outboard.”

Fast forward three years. The concept has become a reality. The Gardners and Glen’s good friend, Dean Clausen, have formed a company, Maritime Engineering Group (www.megoutboard.com ), and manufactured a 2.3-liter turbocharged prototype diesel outboard. A second test engine — a 3.0-liter model — should be completed this spring or early summer.

Actually, MEG’s prototype isn’t the world’s first diesel outboard. Yanmar introduced a 27-hp model in 1988, and a pair of them powered a 35-foot multihull across the Pacific. The MEG engine, however, is the first attempt to market a diesel outboard of significant size.

The Gardners and Clausen — all from the Fort Myers, Fla., area — worked most nights and weekends to get to this point. “It was a long and hard three years,” says Glen Gardner, 52, general manager of Gulf X Marina, which is owned by Clausen. “We took two steps forward and one step back, two steps forward and one back. There were some nights we were so frustrated that no one was talking to each other.”

They’re chatting it up now, though, hoping their 680-pound engine, the MEG Vision Turbo Diesel, will be a big hit in both the recreational and commercial boat markets. A full production version of the 3.0-liter engine should be ready by the summer of 2009. Both models are inline, 4-cylinder engines with 16-valve direct-acting double overhead cams. Shafts will be offered in 20-, 25- and 30-inch lengths.

The engine’s weight should not be an issue with new pleasure boats, which are having no problem handling the weight of other 4-strokes, like the Mercury Verado 350 SCi, which tips the scales at 667 pounds (30-inch shaft), and the Yamaha F350, which weighs 822 pounds (30-inch shaft).

The 2.3-liter engine delivers about 200 hp. They’ll be using the 3.0-liter engine for the higher-horsepower models. “The high-output version of the 3.0-liter motor will have twice the horsepower and torque of the 2.3-liter engine,” says Don Gardner.

The Gardners say their diesel is designed to run 8,000 hours at 80 percent power. How does that compare to a big 4-stroke? Although Honda could not provide formal longevity numbers based on testing, commercial owners of 225-hp Honda outboards have reported logging 8,000 hours, says Honda spokesman Brian Johnston. “These guys take meticulous care of their engines and use all factory parts,” he says.

Test time

During a test ride on Hurricane Bay in Fort Myers Beach, the 2.3-liter prototype proved to be a quiet, powerful engine. At full throttle, it pushed a 22-foot Glassmaster — 2,750 pounds fully rigged and with full fuel — to a top speed of 34 mph. The fuel-burn rate was 6 gallons per hour. This translates to an eyebrow-raising 5.6 miles to the gallon.

How does that stack up against the 4-strokes in the 200-hp range? Yamaha performance bulletins — posted on the company’s Web site,

www.yamaha-motor.com — indicate the 200-hp Yamaha 4-stroke burns from 16 to 19 gallons per hour at full throttle. On a 22-foot Clearwater 2200 dual console (close in weight to the Glassmaster), a single 200-hp Yamaha burns 10.9 gallons per hour at 36 mph. This equates to 3.3 miles to the gallon — good but not in the same league as the diesel.

At high speeds, the diesel’s noise levels are similar to those of the big outboards. At top-end speeds the diesel came in at 90 to 92 decibels. Yamaha performance bulletins do not provide decibel readings, but other published reports indicate a 225-hp 4-stroke’s noise level is from 91 to 94 decibels at full blast.

At idle, the diesel’s noise level is about 70 decibels. At 1,000 rpm that figure increases to 72. The 4-strokes have the diesel beat at these low-rpm settings, however. Noise levels for both the Yamaha and Honda 225-hp 4-strokes are 64 decibels at 1,000 rpm, according to published reports.

The prototype diesel uses a 225-hp Mercury OptiMax lower unit and a MerCruiser Bravo One four-blade stainless steel prop (22-inch pitch and 15-1/4-inch diameter). “We will not be using any Mercury parts in the future,” says Don Gardner. “We are currently designing our own lower unit and midsection. It will be state of the art and unlike anything on the market today.”

With three people on board, the diesel easily pushed the Glassmaster onto plane. At idle and trolling speeds, the engine vibrated, just as you’d expect from a diesel. No smoke or exhaust fumes were noticeable. The mechanical engine controls did clunk when shifting in and out of gear. The company will switch to electronic controls on future prototype and production models, says Don.

For now, MEG will remain a three-man team. Clausen worked closely with the Gardners in the beginning, helping with the concept of bringing a new outboard to market. Now, because of a busy schedule, he has become more of a silent partner.

Don Gardner brings a great deal of experience with diesels. For instance, he says, he worked for five years as a diesel exhaust emission engineer, helping to develop emission-treatment products (diesel particulate filters) that are currently used on all on-road diesel engines. His father spent 20 years as an automotive machinist, building engines to customer specifications and rebuilding cylinder heads of gasoline and diesel engines.

Mum’s the word

An outboard with a diesel’s durability should attract commercial operators and the military, says Gardner. Offshore recreational fishing boats in the 30- to 40-foot range also should be a prime market. He says the company has talked to a few recreational builders, but he declines to identify them. Until the company secures a patent for its engine, the Gardners will be tight-lipped about what’s under the cowling — and the specifics of their business.

The Gardners worked together to design the engine, using computer-aided software. An engine company in Florida actually manufactured it. The Gardners, again because of patent concerns, would not identify the company.

Ironically, the Gardners and Clausen have wanted nothing to do with diesel-propelled boats … when it’s time to have fun. Don runs a 2002 30-foot Motion SS (a racing cat) with twin 300X Mercury outboards, while Dad unwinds in a 1998 Formula 382 FAS3TECH with twin 500-hp Mercury sterndrives. Clausen owns a 50-foot aluminum Cougar, a former offshore raceboat that’s without power at the moment.

[On The Edge 1]

With fuel prices the way they are and the cost of running offshore increasing i can see this having a real place in the market.. Not everyone needs to travel at warp speed to get to the fishing grounds. And it is not like you will be going at a snails pace. I would sacrifice a few mph off my topend for twice the economy of a 4stroke. i would be courious to see how this progresses..

[1NO REGRETS]

I bet the government will be first on line for all their rigid inflatables .It will be much better to carry all deisel and not e-10 especially if they can burn the cooks oil from the kitchen on a carrier or coast guard cutter. makes perfect sense, but with the government thats an oxy- moron, isn't it?

[ovrrdrive]

And when motors came out with power trim on them everyone thought they were too heavy to ever be practical too...

The only thing holding these back is the price of diesel.

[patrickg]

I guess they have had one running for 333 days to prove it will last for 8000 hours? I would love to have a 350 hp diesel outboard getting 3+ mpg on a 26 foot boat. Sign me up

[285exp]

wmalloy382 - 5/12/2008 9:41 AM

This is from an article in soundings from about 2 months ago that covering this - Lots of good information .Claiming about 5.5 Miles per Gallon..which would be nice Article was written by From Chris Landy

Dawn of the diesel outboard?
Chris Landry

In a test run, a 2.3-liter prototype pulls its weight in fuel efficiency, power and noise levels

Glen Gardner and his son Don walked the floor of the Miami International Boat Show three years ago, taking in the big 4-stroke outboards. Mercury, Yamaha and Suzuki all had offerings of at least 250 hp.

“We started chatting back and forth and wondered why no one has come up with a diesel-powered outboard,” says Don Gardner, 27. “With today’s gas prices, it seemed crazy to us. After the show was over, we started researching the concept of a diesel outboard.”

Fast forward three years. The concept has become a reality. The Gardners and Glen’s good friend, Dean Clausen, have formed a company, Maritime Engineering Group (www.megoutboard.com ), and manufactured a 2.3-liter turbocharged prototype diesel outboard. A second test engine — a 3.0-liter model — should be completed this spring or early summer.

Actually, MEG’s prototype isn’t the world’s first diesel outboard. Yanmar introduced a 27-hp model in 1988, and a pair of them powered a 35-foot multihull across the Pacific. The MEG engine, however, is the first attempt to market a diesel outboard of significant size.

The Gardners and Clausen — all from the Fort Myers, Fla., area — worked most nights and weekends to get to this point. “It was a long and hard three years,” says Glen Gardner, 52, general manager of Gulf X Marina, which is owned by Clausen. “We took two steps forward and one step back, two steps forward and one back. There were some nights we were so frustrated that no one was talking to each other.”

They’re chatting it up now, though, hoping their 680-pound engine, the MEG Vision Turbo Diesel, will be a big hit in both the recreational and commercial boat markets. A full production version of the 3.0-liter engine should be ready by the summer of 2009. Both models are inline, 4-cylinder engines with 16-valve direct-acting double overhead cams. Shafts will be offered in 20-, 25- and 30-inch lengths.

The engine’s weight should not be an issue with new pleasure boats, which are having no problem handling the weight of other 4-strokes, like the Mercury Verado 350 SCi, which tips the scales at 667 pounds (30-inch shaft), and the Yamaha F350, which weighs 822 pounds (30-inch shaft).

The 2.3-liter engine delivers about 200 hp. They’ll be using the 3.0-liter engine for the higher-horsepower models. “The high-output version of the 3.0-liter motor will have twice the horsepower and torque of the 2.3-liter engine,” says Don Gardner.

The Gardners say their diesel is designed to run 8,000 hours at 80 percent power. How does that compare to a big 4-stroke? Although Honda could not provide formal longevity numbers based on testing, commercial owners of 225-hp Honda outboards have reported logging 8,000 hours, says Honda spokesman Brian Johnston. “These guys take meticulous care of their engines and use all factory parts,” he says.

Test time

During a test ride on Hurricane Bay in Fort Myers Beach, the 2.3-liter prototype proved to be a quiet, powerful engine. At full throttle, it pushed a 22-foot Glassmaster — 2,750 pounds fully rigged and with full fuel — to a top speed of 34 mph. The fuel-burn rate was 6 gallons per hour. This translates to an eyebrow-raising 5.6 miles to the gallon.

How does that stack up against the 4-strokes in the 200-hp range? Yamaha performance bulletins — posted on the company’s Web site,

www.yamaha-motor.com — indicate the 200-hp Yamaha 4-stroke burns from 16 to 19 gallons per hour at full throttle. On a 22-foot Clearwater 2200 dual console (close in weight to the Glassmaster), a single 200-hp Yamaha burns 10.9 gallons per hour at 36 mph. This equates to 3.3 miles to the gallon — good but not in the same league as the diesel.

At high speeds, the diesel’s noise levels are similar to those of the big outboards. At top-end speeds the diesel came in at 90 to 92 decibels. Yamaha performance bulletins do not provide decibel readings, but other published reports indicate a 225-hp 4-stroke’s noise level is from 91 to 94 decibels at full blast.

At idle, the diesel’s noise level is about 70 decibels. At 1,000 rpm that figure increases to 72. The 4-strokes have the diesel beat at these low-rpm settings, however. Noise levels for both the Yamaha and Honda 225-hp 4-strokes are 64 decibels at 1,000 rpm, according to published reports.

The prototype diesel uses a 225-hp Mercury OptiMax lower unit and a MerCruiser Bravo One four-blade stainless steel prop (22-inch pitch and 15-1/4-inch diameter). “We will not be using any Mercury parts in the future,” says Don Gardner. “We are currently designing our own lower unit and midsection. It will be state of the art and unlike anything on the market today.”

With three people on board, the diesel easily pushed the Glassmaster onto plane. At idle and trolling speeds, the engine vibrated, just as you’d expect from a diesel. No smoke or exhaust fumes were noticeable. The mechanical engine controls did clunk when shifting in and out of gear. The company will switch to electronic controls on future prototype and production models, says Don.

For now, MEG will remain a three-man team. Clausen worked closely with the Gardners in the beginning, helping with the concept of bringing a new outboard to market. Now, because of a busy schedule, he has become more of a silent partner.

Don Gardner brings a great deal of experience with diesels. For instance, he says, he worked for five years as a diesel exhaust emission engineer, helping to develop emission-treatment products (diesel particulate filters) that are currently used on all on-road diesel engines. His father spent 20 years as an automotive machinist, building engines to customer specifications and rebuilding cylinder heads of gasoline and diesel engines.

Mum’s the word

An outboard with a diesel’s durability should attract commercial operators and the military, says Gardner. Offshore recreational fishing boats in the 30- to 40-foot range also should be a prime market. He says the company has talked to a few recreational builders, but he declines to identify them. Until the company secures a patent for its engine, the Gardners will be tight-lipped about what’s under the cowling — and the specifics of their business.

The Gardners worked together to design the engine, using computer-aided software. An engine company in Florida actually manufactured it. The Gardners, again because of patent concerns, would not identify the company.

Ironically, the Gardners and Clausen have wanted nothing to do with diesel-propelled boats … when it’s time to have fun. Don runs a 2002 30-foot Motion SS (a racing cat) with twin 300X Mercury outboards, while Dad unwinds in a 1998 Formula 382 FAS3TECH with twin 500-hp Mercury sterndrives. Clausen owns a 50-foot aluminum Cougar, a former offshore raceboat that’s without power at the moment.

I think most magazines frown on folks posting entire articles, and prefer you to excerpt the article and link to the original, just sayin'.

There seem to be a few inaccuracies in this article. It states that the 2.3l is rated at about 200 hp; so far MEG hasn't stated horsepower numbers, they say that the 3.0l models are "equivalent" to 175, 225, or 300 hp gas outboards. Don Gardner was kind enough to drop into a discussion of these outboards on the Florida Sportsmans site and said that actual hp numbers were forthcoming when they were finalized. Based on the fuel burns at rated power it would appear that, absent some remarkable advance in diesel technology, they're actually putting out around 120, 160, and 200 hp respectively. I'm assuming they mean equivalent to the gas engines in terms of cruise speed, since you can run the diesels just a few hundred rpm down from the top, but there's no way they'll be able to run with their gas equivalents at speed. This is no real problem for commercial users or for some of the big outboard express boats like the Grady 33 and 36, but are the big center console guys really going to be content with top speeds in the mid 30's?

The article says that the Glassmaster and Clearwater are close in weight, but Glassmaster states a dry weight of 1950 lbs while Clearwater states their 2200 weighs in at 3200. Based on that standard, Halle Berry and Oprah Winfrey are close in weight too. The "200 hp" diesel pushed the Glassmaster to a top speed of 34 mph, while the Yamaha gas 200 (which the Yamahaters will claim is really around 180 hp) pushes the heavier Clearwater to 46 mph at WOT. Not exactly equivalent.

MEG claims that you could save $58,200 per thousand hours versus the 300 hp gas in total operating costs (less price of engine).

http://www.megoutboard.com/owner_info.php

Other than the obvious math error ($3.50 x 11,000 $35,000), the savings are overstated because the calculations are based on both engines at WOT, a pretty unrealistic assumption, especially for the gas motor. The diesel is going to be running at a lot higher percent output than the 300 hp gas engine for the same performance. I'm sure there are significant savings, but let's be real.

I wish these guys well, and I'm sure there's a market for high output diesel outboards, but I'm not sure if it's big enough to make this a money maker.

[wmalloy382]

285exp - 5/12/2008 4:12 PM



I think most magazines frown on folks posting entire articles, and prefer you to excerpt the article and link to the original, just sayin'.

Most rules that apply say that as long as you identify the source information and the Author of the information then rules have been met. Which I did.

Not so sure if the CURRENT site you are on likes you posting links that stear people away from here though...... Just sayin'

[285exp]

wmalloy382 - 5/12/2008 1:21 PM

Most rules that apply say that as long as you identify the source information and the Author of the information then rules have been met. Which I did.

Not so sure if the CURRENT site you are on likes you posting links that stear people away from here though...... Just sayin'

Well, let's put it another way. Many sites, including the CURRENT one you are on, base their ad rates on the number of page views. When you post the entire contents of one of their articles without even a link to the original, with attribution or not, you are effectively taking money out of their pockets.

The only link I posted was to the website of the mfg under discussion, not to the Site Whose Name Must Not Be Mentioned.

[wmalloy382]

285exp - 5/12/2008 4:43 PM

Well, let's put it another way. Many sites, including the CURRENT one you are on, base their ad rates on the number of page views. When you post the entire contents of one of their articles without even a link to the original, with attribution or not, you are effectively taking money out of their pockets.

The only link I posted was to the website of the mfg under discussion, not to the Site Whose Name Must Not Be Mentioned.

Well thank god the website forum cop showed up quickly . Im sure the authors of soundings will thanks you and put a shinny new email in your box for you. Ypou should get that framed, Good Job!

But i repeat...again, I posted where I got the info from ( free advertising for a competing source). the Author ( gotta give it to him, he did the work) and the article was all about the topic. Any educational institute in the world would find this acceptable.

If your too lazy to google "sounding" or " Chris Landy" then too bad for you.

When did this site become full of lazy politically correct forum police? Where the hell is Wiley?

WolaKrab - sorry to hijack your thread but this busybodiness is out of contral

Back to diesel Outboards..which is a cool topic.... i hope.

[walden75]

Well I found the aritcle a good read.....copyrighted or not!! (I really have no clue what all the fuss is about people, just read the dam text or dont, but get over it!!)

wmalloy, intresting article none the less.......what I dont get is why the first thing people do is shoot down (more or less) these guys for trying something different?? I think the idea of someone putting out some alternatives to gas outboards is a great idea......granted I would assume they'll get bought out by one of the bigger Outboard companies.....but hey, more power to em, they put in the time & effort.......they should cash in on it!!

Now the gas vs diesel cost at the pump is a WHOLE other debate........but as stated above, if they could get these things to run on DFM, the Navy would be ALL over it.....I keep my boat at a Navy Amphib base where I see Pallets of new ETECs & Hondas being installed and delivered every week.....its crazy how many engines these guys must be going through??

I say give this technology a few more years, and it could really take off. Hats off to the developers, they deserve all the good credit coming to 'em.

[On The Edge 1]

Unless diesel gets to be 2X the price of gas this is still a good thing. Do the math at todays prices 6 bucks a gallon for 10 MPG or 4 bucks for 2 MPG

Granted not everyone will get 10MPG but then again not everyone gets 2 MPG so it is all scaleable

with the #'s posted i think it would be safe to assume that pretty much everyon would get better then 2X the economy they are getting now reguardless of fuel prices..

[SeaJay]

My guess is that we could count on one hand the number of folks on this board who are willing to cruise at lower speeds to save a few gallons of fuel.

[strikethree]

Aside from the obviously stated pros and cons regarding this diesel engine, one factor has not been taken into consireation. How much MORE is a diesel outboard going to cost. If the auto industry is any example then you can wipe out the calculations already posted. For example, a lot of trucks that offer diesels are approx 6K more than a comparable gasoline powered truck. And to top it off, can you imagine the nightmares of trying to meet ferally mandated emissions standards on a diesel outboard? Also, when this project started (years ago according to the article) diesel fuel was cheaper than gasoline. I applaud the efforts of these guys for being innovative. This is the spirit that made this country what it once was. OOPS, I mean is. I'm sure that somewhere there will be a use for this type of product should they be successful. I'm sure the inventor of the electric toothbrush was laughed at too.

[Sleeper]

walden75 - 5/12/2008 7:27 PM but as stated above, if they could get these things to run on DFM, the Navy would be ALL over itguys must be going through??

Why wouldn't they run on DFM? Diesel Fuel Marine is just diesel fuel with more strict specifications than what we buy at a marina. The navy runs DFM in all their Cummins powered RHIBs that are on combatant ships.

[UaVaj]

strikethree - 5/13/2008 11:53 AM

Aside from the obviously stated pros and cons regarding this diesel engine, one factor has not been taken into consireation. How much MORE is a diesel outboard going to cost. If the auto industry is any example then you can wipe out the calculations already posted.

The average boater put on 30 to 40 hrs per year - source is eboatloan.com. Chances are this diesel will be cost almost double (35K) of what a comparable 4 stroke cost (20K). An aquisition difference of ~15k. Give the usage above and today diesel price of $4.00 vs gasoline at $3.75. Even with the better mpg. It will take nearly 7.5 years to start breaking even.

As for the automotive world. Comparing the Civic Hybrid (40mpg) to a Civic (26mpg). With today's gas price and the initial aquistion difference of $6k. You would need to drive extra ~125,000 miles to finally start breaking even.

Totaly impractical!

[jenkinsph]

strikethree - 5/13/2008 11:53 AM

Aside from the obviously stated pros and cons regarding this diesel engine, one factor has not been taken into consireation. How much MORE is a diesel outboard going to cost. If the auto industry is any example then you can wipe out the calculations already posted.



Well look at the difference between the I/O units with marinized engines and large comparable hp outboards. The outboards are much more expensive because of all the technology and lower production numbers. If a large outboard
is about 20k for example then a comparable diesel may be just a few thousand more. I would not expect it to be double
I think the manufacturers know we won't pay it.



Steve

[Sleeper]

They will be attractive to:

Commercial crabbers, lobstermen etc
The Military
Homeland Security
Mexicans and "Islanders" where gasoline is not popular and diesel rules

Just the military and Homeland is a huge market as they chew up thousands of hours very quickly

[walden75]

Sleeper - 5/13/2008 7:47 PM

Why wouldn't they run on DFM? Diesel Fuel Marine is just diesel fuel with more strict specifications than what we buy at a marina. The navy runs DFM in all their Cummins powered RHIBs that are on combatant ships.

It was just a general statement, I know what DFM stands for, I was only emphasizing the fact that yeah, once the military could get a outboard that runs on that stuff......they'd be set......from there on it'd be only 2 grades of fuel...F44 & F76. Simple enough.