For-Hire License (Charter, Headboat, and Guide Operations)

[captainkevin]

The license is in the captains name not his boat. If Captain has a valid license in his name for hire (4-person or 10 person)can it be used on registered charter boats only or can it also be used on a recreational boat?

If he takes a group out friends or paying customers do they need licenses or is the for hire license the Captain has cover all on board a Recreational Vessel?

Florida has Captains making claims they can I say no way boat must be Charter boat.

[marinerjoe]

You need to provide more information.

A USCG license covers the individual to operate ANY vessel up to the limits of his license. If he is operating a vessel "for hire," i.e. he is carrying passengers for ANY TYPE of compensation as a condition of carriage, the VESSEL must meet the USCG requirements (i.e. safety equipment, etc.) for the service in which it is operating.

When you talk about fishing, that is (in most states, Virginia where I am being one of them), there is an additional license that is required. We must have a Virginia Charter/Headboat fishing license which covers everyone on the BOAT. The license is tied to the boat, not the operator. In addition to the state-issued fishing license, there are also various permits for specific species of fish that are issued by the NMFS (tuna, actually Highly Migratory Species being one of them).

I do know in NC, as I do NOT have a NC Charter Boat fishing license, if I want to fish from there, I, and everyone on the boat, must purchse a NC license.

Joe

[Mweathers]

The license is for a captain, if he is for hire, he may use it on any boat.

Capt Mike

[lemaymiami]

When I work aboard one of my customer's boats my license (the guide fishing license here in Florida...) covers all aboard up to the four angler limit. I make a particular point of NOT operating the vessel when I'm aboard a recreational vessel since they're just not up to snuff as far as what's required for a commercial vessel. My services (such as they are), in those cases are strictly limited to the fishing end of things... I try to teach when I'm aboard and will direct the operator where (and if necessary how) to operate safely in the jungle that's my normal stomping grounds. A trip or two, then they usually strike out on their own. But, of course, I'll be seeing them in all the spots I've shown them.... I enjoy it since it's a break from the regular routine, and it's cheaper for my angler since he's not paying for all the costs of my skiff. Fairly often, I find myself learning a trick or two from my customer, since there's a million different ways to do everything on the water.

[Fletch]

captainkevin - 4/3/2008 8:23 AM

The license is in the captains name not his boat. If Captain has a valid license in his name for hire (4-person or 10 person)can it be used on registered charter boats only or can it also be used on a recreational boat?

Florida has two types of vessel fishing licenses. One that is in the boat's name and one that is in the captain's name. The one in the boat's name allows any USCG licensed captain to run the boat in a for-hire situation. It is the fishing license for everyone on board up to the limit of the license (4 people or less, 10 people or less, etc). The one in the captain's name allows that captain only to run any boat in a for-hire situation. It is the fishing license for everyone on board up to the limit of the license (4 people or less, 10 people or less, etc).

So yes those captains making that claim are correct. There are a couple of things worth mentioning though:
• These are STATE fishing licenses and as such, they only apply in STATE waters. To my knowledge, you cannot get federal licenses in an individual's name - they must be tied to a particular vessel. So anyone doing this in federal waters is most likely breaking the law.
• Even though the "10 person or less" license serves as the fishing licenses for up to 10 people, the Coast Guard only allows a maximum of 6 paying passengers on un-inspected vessels. So the max amount that can be covered under the license realistically is 8 with 6 paying passengers plus the captain and mate. I guess a captain could have 3 mates and thus cover up to 10 people but that's a stretch.
• Any captain that carries people for hire on someone else's boat using the "individual license" is exposing himself to additional liability IMO. Anything wrong with that boat becomes his responsibility the moment he takes over in a for-hire situation. Personally, there's no way I'd ever assume that responsibility - great insurance or not.

[striperstan]

There are several issues, and I recommend you contact the prevention department at your local Coast Guard Sector Command, and perhaps other professionals.

Here are just a couple:

1) If anybody on the boat is paying, including cost sharing of the expenses of the trip, as a "condition of carriage", they are a passenger for hire. This means that the boat is now a passenger vessel and must be properly document, inspected (maybe) and must have safety requirement for a passenger vessel (46CFR) rather than passenger vessel (33CFR). It also means there must be a licensed Captain (Operator Uninspected Passanger Vessel) if the vessel is an uninspected passenger vessel (fewer than six passengers), or a Master (appropriate tonnage) if an inspected vessel, regardless of how many pax or onboard for this particular voyage.

--As others have stated, there are additional fishing licensing issues. (check especially on reciprocity; some states reciprocate for recreational fishing, but not charter fishing)

--There may be state/local business license and tax (including personal property tax) issues.

--All personnel on board are either passengers or crew. There are no other categories.

--All personnel involved in the safety of passengers or crew must be in an appropriate drug/alcohol testing program that reports their findings to the owner of this particular vessel (often overlooked when a licensed mariner works on somebody else's boat)....The Coast Guard will not overlook this one.

--Insurance needs to cover the appropriate activities

--Boat Loan must cover the appropriate use

--Extended warranty on most equipment does not cover this activity

I am only scratching the surface here. Please contact your local CG inspection office at the Sector, and if you start down this path, also consult your banker, lawyer, accountant, insurance company, National Marine Fisheries Service, State fish/game service, and local business tax office(s)

[LI32]

Two seperate issues are raised - first, if you hire a captain (and pay him) to run your boat, he needs to be licensed, and if he has a regular ocean operator's license (not a 6-pack), the vessel can carry as many as is legal for it to. If the persons on board are paying, then it is a vessel for hire and is limited to 6 persons plus paid crew. All federal licenses go with the boat, and if it is a vessel for hire, it must hold commercial fishing licenses and be documented as such. I don't know much about the Florda licenses.

[mirage2521]

captainkevin - 4/3/2008 5:23 AM

The license is in the captains name not his boat. If Captain has a valid license in his name for hire (4-person or 10 person)can it be used on registered charter boats only or can it also be used on a recreational boat?

If he takes a group out friends or paying customers do they need licenses or is the for hire license the Captain has cover all on board a Recreational Vessel?

Florida has Captains making claims they can I say no way boat must be Charter boat.

I would love to help but I am not quite sure what you're talking about?

[captainkevin]

A Captain claims his Florida Fishing license will cover those without fishing licenses on a recreational boat in Federal waters.
I advised my friend the Captain is wrong & he better use a Charter boat with all the Federal permits along with his for hire fishing license.

When I chartered that was the rule but it could have changed so I asked THT members.

[mirage2521]

captainkevin - 4/3/2008 6:39 PM

A Captain claims his Florida Fishing license will cover those without fishing licenses on a recreational boat in Federal waters.
I advised my friend the Captain is wrong & he better use a Charter boat with all the Federal permits along with his for hire fishing license.

When I chartered that was the rule but it could have changed so I asked THT members.

Below is what I have found. What I gleaned form it is that you can buy a boat license, for a recreational boat and no one on the boats needs an individual license, if you move offshore then you get into federal waters and federal permits, these or purchased for a boat used for charters. The federal permits are not required for inshore or near shore fishing. The fisrt paragraph below sounds as if it supports what the Capt was saying....might be true

For-Hire License (Charter, Headboat, and Guide Operations)

Charter, headboat and guide operations require this license to cover your passengers who are not required to hold a recreational fishing license.



For-Hire Licenses


CHARTER CAPTAIN - 4 OR LESS CUSTOMERS $ 201.50
CHARTER CAPTAIN - 10 OR LESS CUSTOMERS $ 401.50

CHARTER CAPTAIN - 11 OR MORE CUSTOMERS $ 801.50

CHARTER BOAT - 4 OR LESS CUSTOMERS $ 201.50
CHARTER BOAT - 6 OR LESS CUSTOMERS $ 401.50

CHARTER BOAT - 10 OR LESS CUSTOMERS $ 401.50
CHARTER BOAT - 11 OR MORE CUSTOMERS $ 801.50

** Note that the costs include tax collector surcharge




In order to purchase a charter boat license, you must register your boat as a commercial vessel. The vessel registration documentation will be required in order to obtain a state vessel license.

The license can be purchased at your local tax collectors office. The county you are doing business in may require you to have an occupational license.


The Coast Guard requires a Captain's License for all operators of for-hire vessels. In order to purchase a charter captain's license, you must have a Captain's license. You can call 1-800-982-9374 for information on the Coast Guard Captain's license. This documentation will be required in order to obtain a state vessel license.

If you are operating a for-hire vessel in a Park or a Refuge, you may be required to have additional permits (example: Everglades National Park). Please check with the local Park or Refuge headquarters for any specific permitting requirements for those areas.

If you are operating a for-hire vessel in federal waters (outside of 9 nautical miles on the Gulf and 3 nautical miles on the Atlantic), some species do require a federal charter vessel/headboat permit in order to fish for them. Contact the National Marine Fisheries Management Service, Licensing and Permitting office at (727) 570-5326 for information on federal charter/headboat permits.

Vessel and Pier Licenses



Optional Licenses (Not Required)

Vessel - Recreational

An optional license that is available to cover anyone saltwater fishing from a recreational vessel where no fee is paid.
$ 2,001.50

Saltwater Fishing Pier

An optional license issued to an owner, operator or custodian of a pier to cover everyone saltwater fishing from such pier.
$ 501.50

** Note that the costs include tax collector surcharge

[CapnDean]

I believe that the key distinction is the difference between a USCG master's license and what it allows you to do legally, and the fishing license sold to either individual fishermen, or the boat. The OP does not distinguish between the two.

I am 100 ton USCG master. I still have to buy a louisiana non resident fishing license if I want to go fishing in louisiana. If I want to carry passengers and take them fishing, not only do I have to have the USCG license (hence operating a charter for hire) I also have to purchase a louisiana 'guide license'. The guide license allows me to take peoples money and take them fishing in louisiana, it has my name on it and is non-transferrable. Then there is the individual fishing license that my customer has to buy. In some states....The individual license is waived if the captain has the state charter license. In my (former) charter business, I did not actually accompany my customer fishing. I took him out to the Islands and cut him loose with a skiff. As a result, I was required to have the guide license asnd the customer was required to have the individual fishing license. I understand that most head boat operators are exempt from requiring the customer to possess a state issued fishing license.

Then there is the certification of the vessel: Basically you can carry 6 or less on an uninspected vessel, when you get to the 7th passenger, you are required to have an inspected passenger vessel. This is an annual inspection and it can be costly in terms of keeping your COI (certificate of inspection) current.

Crew doesn't count in the passenger count: and if you call the 7th guy a 'captains guest' you will be in violation. YES all USCG licensed skippers operating for hire are required to be enrolled in a DOT certified random drug screening program.

What about the fellow who takes his buddies fishing and hits them up for gas money when he gets back in? TECHNICALLY Speaking..and by the strictest interpretation of USCG regs.... He has just operated a charter and could be subject to penalty for failure to have the requisite USCG license, inspected vessel etc. NEVER in my life ever heard of anybody getting cited for this...once again I am very strictly interpreting the rule book here.

Of course there is one other issue (isn't there always?) and that is the hated bootlegger. The bootlegger has no USCG license, No state Guide license, no insurance, is not enrolled in a urinalysis program. He will take you fishing for as much as he can get you to pay, with the agreement ahead of time: "If we get boarded by the USCG or local law enforcement, you and I are just buddies out for a day fishing and you are not otherwise paying me to bring you."

This is the guy that your legitimate charter operator has to deal with...hard to compete when one has overhead and is in legitimate business, and the other does not. Most of my buddies who were charter operators could care less about the buddies going fishing deal, but got really chapped when they knew that there were other boats in the same fishing grounds that were bootlegging.

[daddy0]

The more post the more ambiguous the info.
A blue fin permit is required even on a recreational boat.
6 pack license is for the max 6 passengers and 2 crew including the Capt. provided that the manufactures capacities are not exceeded. most states requiring salt water license for anglers ,permits exemting passengers are available for charter and head boats not recreational

[mirage2521]

daddy0 - 4/5/2008 1:05 PM

The more post the more ambiguous the info.
A blue fin permit is required even on a recreational boat.
6 pack license is for the max 6 passengers and 2 crew including the Capt. provided that the manufactures capacities are not exceeded. most states requiring salt water license for anglers ,permits exemting passengers are available for charter and head boats not recreational

The more posts the more incorrect information, in Florida a recreational boat CAN have a fishing license for the boat. Who asked about a blue fin permit?