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Random Quote: I've upped my standards...............so up yours
Hi all just found this board and have been really enjoying reading all of the threads. Once upon a time I owned a small 20' cuddy cabin got out of boating and into drag racing for awhile and now am out of drag racing and looking to get back into boating and FISHING. (have found myself addicted to game fish and big fish)
I am looking for something kind of in the convertable style (as I have 2 kids and wife to occasionally make happy) but something small enough that i could manage by myself if i could get out of work early enough, so i am really looking at express type boat and trying to avoid the flybridge. I do want to be able to fish OFFSHORE maybe the canyons so i want the boat to have some range.
I am looking used and can't spend more than $100k and would like to spend alot less, so far I have seen the wellcraft, tiara, luhrs, etc. I was really impressed with the delta 36 sfx because of the raised center helm (more room for the family and easier for a solo captain/mate to deal with a raised center helm) plus only steps away from the cockpit.
Then I found a Rampage Express i liked this boat because of wide BEAM seemed a little heavier bigger fuel tanks etc. Only probelm was is was in the keys i am in Mass and it looked like it was going to take about 1500 gals of fuel to get her up here. Which brings me to my first question for the board. I have seen several of these boats in this type style powered by gas instead of diesel, with the cost of diesel getting higher by the day is it not worth considering gas in a boat that weighs 16,000-20,000??
I then found a trojan, although it seems more like a family crusier with the arch and all, it does have large fuel tank, nice wide BEAM, nice cabin arrangement, just doesn't really seem like a fish boat, anyone ever seen one of these with a tower?
If you are limited by $$, I would look for the one in the best condition first and worry about brand next.
Also, you do know that a twin diesel express of that size will have some pretty serious recurring expenses right? Between fuel, dockage, maintenance, etc probably over 10K/yr.
Thanks for the reply Dr. Jim i didnt mean to convey that i was limited by $$ (at some point we all are) but i would think that placing a budget in mind is a safe thing to do before beginning. Which power source (gas or diesel) would be your choice enlight of todays fuel crunch. With todays buyer's market for boats it seems that one could get a fairly decent one in this size for around $100k or am I out in left field. Not sure what you mean by condition (hours on engines? hull? electonics?) what would be most important to you? I plan to have a survey but seems like (for me) and of course this may not be everyone. I would be better off buying a boat with tired engines and re-powering myself, as I have spent many years rebuilding engines and could benefit by the cost savings by re-powering myself. I am aware of the yearly cost involved doing this unfortunately for me i spent nearly 7 times your yearly estimation going to 2 races last year, so actually this will be a bit of a break for me.
If you want to chase big game, diesel is your power. There is more of a curve to the mpg, and that'll save you when trolling. Plus, fishing is all about range, and larger gas boats do not have that luxury. I'd start with the older Tiaras, Topaz, Cabo 35- it is a big world out there and a used boat is less about the brand and more about the condition of what you find. The re-powering idea is a great one, though it'll take many hours to recoup your investment. Try scanning the Boats for Sale section on this site, and yachtworld.com. A broker could also be of great benefit. With the economy where it is, there are some great deals out there, it is just a matter of finding a layout that makes sense.
Hull and engine condition would be my main concern. For ~100K I would think you are looking at 1980s-ish boats (from quality builders). If you have the skill and time to deal with rebuilds I guess you could save some $$. Installing new diesels would be pretty pricey.
I would try either up the budget or cut back the size range in order to get something newer and ready to fish.
A couple of thoughts; I wouldn't discount the flybridge boats with the 2nd station in the cabin. I agree that diesel is the way to go- but you want to find a boat that's already been repowered vice doing it yourself, as it gets spendy very fast.
Also, the same goes for electronics- better to find a boat that has been completely outfitted.
Look atCabo, Riviera, Mediterrean, and of coourse the classic Bertrams and Hats.
__________________ Marine Insurance Guru
I'm always right- and if I want your opinion, I'll give it to you
Repowered with twin Mercruises on an IO a few years back. Ended up spending about 30K on the install , engines,drives and all the other gear. A year later we sold the boat for 32k. still with a 4 year warranty on the blocks.
Let someone else repower the boat and then buy it from them. Just my opinion but I would buy a 3 year old engine with under 400 hours anyday vs having to repower again. The money and time you save is huge.
__________________
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24' Grady White - SOLD!
13' Boston Whaler
Your price range of $100K will be blown if you go the diesel route unless you get a pretty old boat. I do agree that diesels are the way to go for an express that you want to run to the canyons. There are lots of good models out there -- Cabos and Tiaras are going to be among the priciest. Luhrs, Wellcraft will be considerably less expensive. Check out Albemarle. I used to have a twin inboard gas 290 Sea Ray Amberjack. Nice express cruiser with good fishing capabilities. It doesn't have quite the range to make it out to the canyons -- 230 gallon fuel tank so maybe a 225 mile range. But you can get pretty recent models (2000-2002) for around 65K to 85K. I currently own a 38 Fountain Sportfish Cruiser powered by twin diesel stern drives. Now this boat has incredible range and fuel economy. With a 270 gallon tank, it has a range of 600 miles, and cruises at 45 mph sipping only 18 gallons/hour. So you've got a world of choices out there. I'd go with diesel for safety. The cost of diesel versus gas is just not that significant.
i did the search two years ago that you are doing now. i ended up buying my 84 stamas sports sedan with 200hr 2002 yanmars for less then the guy paid to do the repower (he did the work himself).
repowering a boat is far more expensive then most (that have not done it) will ever know. it is not the engines, it is every thing else that goes with it.
in this market you should have no problem picking up a mid 30's diesel boat for your budget.
as mentioned above i would not discount flybridge boats. i have single handed mine in the worst of conditions. i do occasionly find thelower station useful if the wind is blowing hard.
__________________ 32' Stamas Sports Sedan
"Kingfisher"
I love the blackfin a couple of questions if any of you guys own or have owned one. Is their any disadvantage to the weight, they must be comfortable boats to be in offshore, but how much more fuel do they burn because of the weight (maybe in the big picture i am missing the boat so to speak) The probelm with this boat is its location Im in Mass i had found a nice rampage down in the keys but local captain estimated it would take 1500 gals to get it up here i imagine it would be about the same from miami. I was in Florida before the price of oil started going nuts and it was $4.50 gal then must be close to $5.00 by now. I think im going to give a call on this boat anyway. What do you guys think of this boat.
Hi GGF,
welcome back to boating! I think that from what you mentioned, a nice express style sportfish is right up your alley. If you are serious about canyon fishing, then you should want to look at something from 34' up, as both of these boats are. At that size you really will be hard pressed to find much available with gas engines, and as stated before, you would want to steer away from those anyhow. As far as the weight issue goes, the heavier boat is indicative ( usually ) of a softer ride in the water, which is nice too. For your family needs, you would probably be better served by the Flybridge, and personally, I find it to be markedly more comfortable that being in a tower offshore.... But thats me. I don't know much about the delta you posted, but I'm not a fan of a "Command Bridge" style, plus the electronics looked a bit slapdash to me.... The Blackfin seems nice from the photos. I would also look at older Rampage 36' Expresses ( Mid 80's vintage Grey hulls ), Topaz 36-37' expresses ( a bit of a pounder, but solid offshore workhorse) and the berts and hatts. One thing that is important as you well know is the condition of the engines. I would strongly suggest a marine engine surveyor ( In addition to a regular marine surveyor ) to take a look and see how the engines have been treated over the years. Best of Luck in your search, hope to see you on the water!
The Topaz is nice, I'm not a big fan of the Trojan (one down by me the sides bellow out from big vents being added as part of the diesel conversion, marina hates blocking it and seeing the sides flex out), here's a nice one by Viking, one of the few they made, their 35 is one of my favorite hulls, and this is close to home for you:
I guess I will be the bad guy here. A $100k budget will not get you a useable 35-40' twin diesel express boat from a reputable builder. That 38' Blackfin is a nice boat, but it will need $50-60K minimum, to bring it up to date - the 550 hrs are since an incomplete rebuild - full rebuilds, which aren't too far down the road on 6V-92's are more than $25k per motor. As someone said repowers are incredibly expensive - figure for CAT C-12's or Cummins QSM-11's at 600+ hp, which is typical for a 37-40' express boat, $120-$150,000. Since you have never owned a twin diesel, I will let you in on a secret, they are at least triple the cost to repair or maintain over gas, and with diesel 20% more to buy at the pump, the 35% savings in fuel economy means they will never pay for themselves; and that $10k a year budget mentioned above is probably conservative for the first 2-3 years on the $12+ year old boats you are looking at. Unless you are serious about canyon fishing, where only outboards and diesels have the range, do yourself a favor and buy a more cash friendly boat in the 32-36' range something like a gas powered Tiara's (33's & 36's). Also, if you are worried about how much fuel is going to cost you for the season, which is usually the cheapest thing - 150 hrs @ 12 gal avg. is only $7,000/year - you may want to look at those finances again. Those old Trojan International's (9,10, & 11 meter) were crap. If going older (80's & 90's), buy nothing but first rate - Albemarle, Blackfin, Bertram, Cabo, Carolina Classic, Hatteras, Rampage, Tiara, Topaz or Viking.
The blackfin sold, has anyone on the board done a repower themselves, i understand that a typical repower job is 17-20k per engine but after 10 years of building 8000 hp nitro engines i just can't understand what is so complicated about doing a repower job myself ( i admit i am new to this and might very well be wrong / that is why i am asking for opinions) Guess maybe i should up the budget a bit / well as long as their is tuna or a mako in my future i dont have a probelm with that (lol)
Over on the Bertram 33 site a bunch of the guys have detailed their repowering experiences with the Cummins 330's and 370's. Pricing's about 75k. It's the gas to diesel conversion that's part of the big money, shafts, props, ect.
recommendation 35-40 express sport fish 
