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I learned the hard way, that before starting any boat project is worth to consult with the gurus at THT to get different opinions, experiences, tricks, tips, and point of views on the project....
Well... I just got my new electric marine head and want to start planing the next steps and materials to buy to complete this project..
My boat did not have any previous head installation so I have a blank slate to start from scratch. so far the best design I have is the one below
The only restrictions I have are the marine head that I already have (Jabsco electric silent flush marine head), and the size of the holding tank that will be limited by the space available in the cabin.
Tips, suggestions, advice, recommendations???? anything????
I already have the seawater intake but I have no idea on the bast location to put the thru-hull to pump out the waste...#9
Excellent design, except in my case I opted for fresh water flush from the boat's water tank. Keeps things generally sweeter. Also, item #10 can be a manual pump such as a Munster Simms, Whale or other diaphragm type pump. Do not scrimp on cheap hose. buy the best. Use a heat gun and dishwashing liquid to coax the hose onto the barbs and double clamp everything.
If the holding tank tends to sit for a while without being emptied and flushed with clear water, it can develop quite a reek.
__________________ Bill Adams
66 109 2A Safari Wagon
93 LWB
Allmand 23 Ticonderoga Chevy 350 EFI Cobra IO
Carver Mariner hybrid cuddy twin jet drives Ford EFI 5.0 HOs
Excellent design, except in my case I opted for fresh water flush from the boat's water tank. Keeps things generally sweeter. Also, item #10 can be a manual pump such as a Munster Simms, Whale or other diaphragm type pump. Do not scrimp on cheap hose. buy the best. Use a heat gun and dishwashing liquid to coax the hose onto the barbs and double clamp everything.
If the holding tank tends to sit for a while without being emptied and flushed with clear water, it can develop quite a reek.
The head I have is supposed fresh or salt water... I could use fresh, but I was concerned on my reduced 13 gallons fresh water provision not being enough...
Is it really worth to use fresh instead of salt water....????
Great advice!!!! thanks a lot and keep it coming...
Another thter has the same boat as myself and the tank in the cabin and I couldn't feel any odor when I was there.... I also think he is using salt water to flush...
another question how many flushes do you need to fill your tank up???
Emanuel, you've seen mine and I have the same exact boat so if you want you can come by the house any time and look at the set up in detail. Don't worry so much about the smell, as long as you use the tank deorderizer you will be fine. I also used a tank vent filter so you don't smell it from outside the boat either.
You will have no problem using just seawater to flush as long as you put the pickup low enough so you don't suck air if there is a little chop. And weather you use fresh water or saltwater the first couple of flushes will smell because of the flush water left in the line. I usually go out a little before each boat trip and flush some clean water through the system to get the smell out.
With limited fresh water capacity, and a non-Vac-U-Flush head, stick with salt water.
To answer your question, yes, fresh water makes a BIG difference, but it seems like you don't have the capacity.
On where to locate the overboard discharge (your diagram #9), put it in a readily accessible location, as the seacock is supposed to be LOCKED when within no-discharge areas (i.e. in a bay or within 3 miles of land on the ocean).
How large a holding tank will you be installing? That information, combined with how much water your commode uses per flush will help answer your question, "how many flushes do you need to fill your tank up?"
Of course you can use raw water as the supply. I just didn't want to poke another hole in the hull. Like Chris says, run deodorizer, add a vent filter and flush it all out once in a while.
__________________ Bill Adams
66 109 2A Safari Wagon
93 LWB
Allmand 23 Ticonderoga Chevy 350 EFI Cobra IO
Carver Mariner hybrid cuddy twin jet drives Ford EFI 5.0 HOs
Thanks a lot...everybody... I will keep asking as soon as more questions come to my mind....
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I have always wondered why more people didn't use fresh water to flush. I know that the raw water that comes out of my baitwell lines is pretty funky after a couple weeks of sitting unused - I'd much rather flush with freshwater from a storage tank. On top of all that it would just plain be easier to plumb, since most boats big enough for a real head already have a pressurized freshwater system.
Seems like for "emergency use" (1-2 flushes per trip) you'd have plenty of freshwater on board.
(assuming there's no real risk of backflow contamination, which I assume there is not)
I use a modified version of your diagram to keep everyone happier. Everything from the head goes to the holding tank first. A tee fitting is installed in the vacuum line that goes from the holding tank to the pump out port. The tee leads to a macerating pump and the macerating pump goes to a discharge port. That way there are no accidents and no problems with the "Y" valve ot the direct discharge valve being unlocked, since there is none. Yes, I have to remember to empty the tank, but I also don't have to worry if someone needs to use the head inside the limit or that I'll have to hit the pump out station for just one use. If I am in a legal area, I can turn on the macerating pump, open the valve and drain the tank. If am an not, I can use the pump out. No worries, no hassles. If you are going to have a head, you might as well feel free to use it. If the tank is hidden, make sure you have a system to let you know if it is getting full. I've used the Snake River system on three boats and it works just fine. No floats, no hang ups. It uses tape on the outside of the tanks and will monitor both fresh and waste.
One other comment: If your water system has any amount of pressure, water will be forced by the inlet valve in the Jabsco and into the bowl. I've found the Jabsco is perfectly happy drawing water from the tank, rather than being fed by a pump. Feeding it from the fresh water tank ensures no leaks or sinking from an open seacock and does not take all that much water.
I'd rather have any flooding limited to the volume of the fresh tank rather than the volume of the ocean.
I would not worry too much about using raw water to flush with. It is not going to smell any worse than what you are putting into the toilet anyway. If you are worried about standing water stench, a half cup of bleach should take care of it. 1/4 cup bleach would probably work.
Take the boat out beyond the three mile limit if you need to empty the tank. I would think that would be the easiest way to deal with the "stuff". Once the tank is empty I would run a few flushes without deposits to make sure it is really all gone. Don't want to leave the kids in the pool for too long!
I would also suggest installing a float in the tank so you know how full (or empty) it is. If you have a small holding tank it is nice to know it is getting full before you find out the hard stinky way!!
The marine sanitation police may also want that Y valve to be locked so nobody can accidentally set it to discharge should you be inside the three mile limit. Personally I do not see what the big deal is, I think that boaters can be trusted to not intentionally pollute the water they like to swim and fish in with "stuff". But the marine sanitation police do not view humanity with such a positive light.
My marine sanitation plan is a lot simpler. I call it "float the brown shark". You hang it all out over the side of the boat, and then let the brown shark swim. Do not tell the marine sanitation police!!!! But so far nobody has ever had to do this. Of course nobody has ever taken a leak off my boat! OH NO!! No matter how much beer the crew consumes, nobody ever has to pee in the world's largest toilet
The coxswain limits his beer intake to no more than 4 for the day (and not more than one per hour), unless the boat will remain at anchor overnight.
__________________ 1999 20 foot Seagull power cat
Single 135 Optimax outboard
My marine sanitation plan is a lot simpler. I call it "float the brown shark". You hang it all out over the side of the boat, and then let the brown shark swim. Do not tell the marine sanitation police!!!! But so far nobody has ever had to do this. Of course nobody has ever taken a leak off my boat! OH NO!! No matter how much beer the crew consumes, nobody ever has to pee in the world's largest toilet
The coxswain limits his beer intake to no more than 4 for the day (and not more than one per hour), unless the boat will remain at anchor overnight.
I use a modified version of your diagram to keep everyone happier. Everything from the head goes to the holding tank first. A tee fitting is installed in the vacuum line that goes from the holding tank to the pump out port. The tee leads to a macerating pump and the macerating pump goes to a discharge port. That way there are no accidents and no problems with the "Y" valve ot the direct discharge valve being unlocked, since there is none. Yes, I have to remember to empty the tank, but I also don't have to worry if someone needs to use the head inside the limit or that I'll have to hit the pump out station for just one use. If I am in a legal area, I can turn on the macerating pump, open the valve and drain the tank. If am an not, I can use the pump out. No worries, no hassles. If you are going to have a head, you might as well feel free to use it. If the tank is hidden, make sure you have a system to let you know if it is getting full. I've used the Snake River system on three boats and it works just fine. No floats, no hang ups. It uses tape on the outside of the tanks and will monitor both fresh and waste.
kerno:
man you are 3 steps ahead of us normal regular people.... you lost me somewhere on the first two sentences.... so let me see if I have this right... so the "Y" valve I have on my drawings as #8, you replace it for a "T" connector, leaving all the rest the same????
I still do can't see the benefit on your set up... could you go a little bit further on your explanation...You have a heck of a reputation building stuff, so I would like to understand your point of view on this matter....
I thought that the "Y" valve was kind of required by law...
What is the Snake River system??? how it's works????
First off, let's talk about the "Y" valve. It is there to offer you the choice of sending the stuff directly overboard or to the tank. Most people prefer that because they'd rather mess their drawers than use the head anyway. The idea of sending it to the tank is considered ridiculous because once it gets in there, it has to get dumped. The Y valve is cheap to install, saves the cost of a macerating pump and can get you a hefty fine. It is not required. In fact, it is really disliked by the sanitation folks. But, most boat builders understand the cheap part and make a very simple system with a Y valve and no way of dumping the tank other than a pumpout station. I think that is shortsighted and potentially expensive. I use my head and everyone on board is welcome to use the head. It is really no problem at all to dump the tank.
Another really great thing about dumping right overboard with a Y valve is that everyone on the boat gets to see the golden chunks drifting by the boat and then you all get to watch the fish feeding on those chunks. Yippee! Let's catch a few and eat em!
OK, if you look at your drawing, just eliminate the line that goes from the head directly overboard. The drawing is going to throw you off because it shows two lines coming out of the toilet and there is really only one discharge line. So, in my system, the discharge line goes directly from the head to the holding tank. It is a direct line with no valves or tees, so everything has to go to the tank first. The tank has two ways of dumping. Either I go to a pump out or I wait until I am far enough offshore and I open the seacock for 2 minutes and turn on the macerating pump. The pump empties the tank and I turn off the pump and shut the valve. That's pretty simple and a lot less risky than running around with the valve from the head open all the time or worse yet, you having to go into the head and having to open it when somebody tries to flush and the valve was closed.
What's a Snake River system? West Marine sells a tank gage package made by Snake River. It comes set up to monitor up to 4 tanks. It works with foil tape strips stuck to the outside of plastic tanks, so if the tanks are hidden, you can see when they are getting full. They cost about $200.00 and they work.
So, my system is available for use 100 percent of the time. On the trailer, at the dock or even with the sanitation cops tied up next to me. Now, your next question might be: "What happens if the tank is full and I flush the toilet?" The answer is: Nothing. What's in the bowl just sits there and does not go down.
Everyone has there own idea of you a head system should be set up. I like mine because nothing is left open to the ocean and the head can be used any time. I really prefer as few holes as possible in the bottom of the boat and want any that are there to be closed off as much of the time as possible.
I have a deck pump out fitting connected to one side of the tank and a seperate macerator pump connected to the other side of the tank that is a direct discharge. The switch for the discharge pump is actually an ignition switch that requires a key to operate so there are no accidents.
For the flush water I can use either raw water or fresh water.
OK, if you look at your drawing, just eliminate the line that goes from the head directly overboard.
Only one line is the discharge, the other is the intake. All "effluent" goes out thrut he Y valve to either the pump out or the macerator to a thru-hole.
ReelNauti: You are 100 percent correct. I saw only what I thought I saw, not what was actually drawn. The system is exactly what I have, except I use fresh water.
ReelNauti: You are 100 percent correct. I saw only what I thought I saw, not what was actually drawn. The system is exactly what I have, except I use fresh water.
Damn.... I was going nuts!!!!!!
I read your post like 20 times trying to find the difference between what you were saying and my drawing... but I didn't have the guts to contradict Mr. Kerno!!!!! I was writing you a PM to ask permission to call you to discuss it!!!!
I'm a fan of your work, so I thought I was missing something!!!!
I' relieved to know the design had been blessed by Mr. Kerno
I'm a fan of isolation valves for MSD's...with some installations, it's like you can't have too many. I hate the large self-contained units for that reason especially if you're working practically overhead. Makes for cleaner component replacements especially with the macerator or tank and you can't pump out right away. Drawback is you need to work them every now and then.
Marine Head project... 
I also think he is using salt water to flush...
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