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Old 11-08-2002, 08:59 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

I canceled my order for a 28 Grady I posted about on this forum a few months ago when my wife made a fuss about it not being for her too with things she liked. Mostly Galley stuff, seating inside and not below, head (what else) with a shower and microwave. We finally made a compromise on a PilotHouse style boat. Fishing boat with an RV inside! Go figure. The good part is I still get to have a new 28' boat.

I found a tank of a boat made by SeaWolf Marine in Burlington Washington (NorthWest Boat Builder) and the guy makes great boats and they are real good looking if you like the style, http://www.seawolfmarine.com/28pilot.html and not only nice but finished extremley nice inside, finish with work ment to last decades. It is powered with KAMD43 130 gallons of fuel that will go over the 500 mile range. What can I say its a tank built to last forever. Commercial quality and the guy can add anything you can think of but of course for a price..

What do you guys think? Any other companies like this in aluminum you can come up with or similar?

Thanks,

BAZ...



SEABAZ is a 2000 26’ Seaswirl Striper W/A Volvo Penta 5.0GI w/DuoProp
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Old 11-08-2002, 09:44 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Those are fine boats and you won't be disappointed but it will take a while to get one as they are a small outfit that builds to order and they are usually backlogged 6-12 months. They really hold their value and rarely show up on the used market - congratulations!

21' Custom Aluminum Workboat, CC, Honda 90
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Old 11-08-2002, 10:14 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Sea Wolf builds a great boat,researched alot of the AL builders and these guys are the best. Like you, we narrrowed the choice between a Grady and the Sea Wolf. We made the opposite choice though, for just 1 reason we make long trips Puget Sound to Alaska and water conditions can change in a hurry with no place to get out it. You cannot get the entrance to midship deadrise transistion with Al that you can with FG, so the ride suffers a little. I still second guess my decision, I don't think you can find a better built AL boat than Sea Wolf....
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Old 11-08-2002, 10:51 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

A real solid "workboat" look to it, like it means business!

I can understand the rearswept screen and reasons for it, can't says I like the look af that particular aspect all that much myself.

However it does keep the interior cooler and direct sun off the dash / electricals, and sheds water well etc for visibility (i.e. it's very practical) which is why you see so many professional fishing and patrol boats etc with similar styling.
Heres an alternative maybe?


Hard chine planing monohedron with an efficient and surface piercing bow and built in chine strakes.These features make for an efficient and soft riding but stable vessel.

Or This



Just a little more "style" maybe....but perhaps not as well appointed as the one your looking at!

Cheers!

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Old 11-09-2002, 05:09 AM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Hello,

I know that there are some significant limitations in the design with aluminum as far as deadrise etc. Despite this can someone really comment on the details of the rides head to head, ie the grady to the aluminum?

Pounding......

Speed.........

Comfort........

Thanks
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Old 11-09-2002, 05:22 AM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Steve,
Seems like your still sort of straddling two very different camps so I'll toss in a third. Have you considered a semidisplacement lobster hull? There are a number of semi-custom builders that will start with the hull you choose and build it anyway you like. It can be as salty & fishy or as cozy as you can dream up. Most/all these boats will run a single diesel inboard. Max speed will be in the 20-24 knot range. The hulls are very seaworthy & kindly..they've evolved over 90 years into the hull of choice for many commercial fisherman (around 80% of Nova Scotia commercial fishers use them).


http://www.boatbusinessgroup.com
http://www.nsboats.com/

This one is in Washington state..he brings in boats from the east coast:

http://www.downeastboats.com/boats.htm

The ones below are a little on the yachty side, my preference would be the semi-custom option (above...this is actually what I'm considering) that leaned more toward fishing while still having the weekender finishing.

http://www.yachtworld.com/listing/yw...USD&units=Feet

http://www.yachtworld.com/listing/yw...USD&units=Feet

http://www.yachtworld.com/listing/yw...USD&units=Feet

http://www.yachtworld.com/listing/yw...USD&units=Feet
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Old 11-09-2002, 08:25 AM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

I found a couple of companies that offer the Pilot house from aluminum to fiber glass and when and looked at Oprey, Seasport, Wolf, and others I can't remember now since cancelling my contract for the 28 Grady but this boat is one tuff puppy.

His construction time now is 4 month or less construction time. You can have him build you a boat with $3000.00 down and 25% of the cost posted each month of construction until complete. It is Novemeber and can be completed by April just right for the summer if I go through with the deal. I met Jeff at his factory and he is completing No. 41 and as you can see in the pictures below starting No. 42 and with $3000.00 will begin Mine No.43 in Dec/Jan.

http://community.webshots.com/album/54495935GGTbfN

I was to say the least very impressed with the quality of the welds and the finish inside of his 25' boat shown in the pictures. Everything inside like the table is built on a solid aluminum frame. The dash the stove area the bathroom area. 360 of view around the inside. Water tight everything including the deck hatch. Transom door for bringing fish in through fish holds. Diesel heaters, stoves, ovens. Even the lighting group was 1/2 white light the other 1/2 red night light. Everything inside is lined and noise proofed and insulated from the bulkheads to the ceiling and decks. I like the boat and thanks for some of the feed back. Anything I should be adding or idea to consider would be helpful considering this is my first built to suit boat?

BAZ...





SEABAZ is a 2000 26’ Seaswirl Striper W/A Volvo Penta 5.0GI w/DuoProp
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Old 11-09-2002, 09:22 AM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Cat Man, Here's what I found in my research when we made the decision between the Sea Wolf and the Grady or more basically AL vs Fiberglass. for the length we were dealing with 20 - 36 ft, most hull design is a compromise between ride, stability, and room. This assumes 20knt + Cruise speed. We were looking for cabin space, stability on the water when fishing, and ride. My wife has some back issues and isn't comfortable taking a jarring ride, so the entrance into head seas at speed is an issue with us. With fiberglass a builder can design a steep entrance foreward and transition that deadrise quickly to a much flatter midship and transom deadrise. with Al plate the builder is limited by this transition,( simply cannot shape the plate to these angles) most op for a flatter entrance which gives more cabin room a stable ride but will sacrifice some ride quality in steep headseas.
When we compared the 2 boats, in alsmost every other area AL was superior.
Weight and size was the similar both boats around 33ft and 11000 lbs dry
Fuel economy - Al by a bunch
Cockpit area - same
cost - within 10% of each other
Storage space - AL
maintenance - AL
Even with all the benefits of AL, we chose the grady for it's ride and design...
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Old 11-09-2002, 09:37 AM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Thanks indeed for the lookround.

What I saw looked OK work.
I think maybe you need to think this thru asi listed once before somewhere in a post about boatbuying "checklist" for all the components of each of the "systems" that go to making up a whole boat package.

You know what I mean, start with say the Bilge systems - mud boxes, pumps, plumbing the wiring and fusing of each of them, manual backups and so on..thru hulls and seacocks, can you access em QUICK, and fix em, stuff em full of rag if you have to?

Then look at say safety systems, eg, fire (halon dump?) extinguisher types and locations (foam, CO & Dry Powder types for the engine room - as you enter), dry chemical for the cabin, electrical near the circut breakers, and so on, one for the galley area (CO Capable of extinguishing hot oil fire!)

Then Raft locaton and deployment,
Ditch Buckets location and contents,

Once your done with all safety related systems move on to fuel systems, placement of filters, spill containment & drain tray, and so on..

You only get one chance when building this to do it right, so it's up to you to do the homework and "specify" what it's going to have and where / how - accessibility and so on...

Basically you almost need IMHO to "live" in this guys workshop while he's building this thing. He's a welder cum boatbuilder not probably a qualified Capt - he may not know (likely won't) the "implications" for down the track of where he places certain things - what to himmight be the "easiest spot to get a tack weld on it and later stich or fully weld it, may NOT later on be the easiest place for you to "regularly change filters or drain water" etc.

From the photo's what I can tell you...is the guys may be a good welder..but his sho don;t look "too organised" to me - which in itself doesnt say much probably - except maybe if he's "muddled" in the way he goes about building he might get "muddled in remembering to go back to some spot andfinish a weld etc - it can happen.

I see he starting a second before the firsts finnished etc is this coz he needs the cashfow to stay afloat, to finnish the first coz he's sailing close to the wind fiscaly?

How many others work in his shop with him etc..

You know what I'm saying Bazz, I think the guys talented and committed to his work - that much shows in the finished product.

I've run a few workshops and have one a my own - I can tell a thing or two from what I see as a generalisation....

Look - some geniuses were incredibly "untidy" folks according to the history books, absent minded, disorganised and yet totally brilliant, and this guy may well be one of those types - so its not fair to judge from a few photo's of his shop... heavens knows whe my own shops knee deep in sawdust - you could be forgiven for thinking, "these guys wouldn't know one end of a chisel from the other"....and yet we still turn out a reasonable product at the end of the day.

Just "protect" yourself Baz, bye doing the homework and adopting a role of committed "overseer".

It's YOUR boat ad you will have to live with the end result maybe a long time so get it right.

If you don't know all the systems and whats involved in each - the plusses and minus of various choices, then maybe do a coxswains course or something and learn BEFIRE you hand over the folding greens - thattaway - you go in buttoned up, with all your facts figures, lists and concrete ideas about what should go where, why and how.

Then the guys not going to get jacked off grinding stuff out afterward as you "realise" belatedly its in the wrong place.

For example - what SORT of manual bilge pumping system are you going to install - operated from where?

I think you got a good design of boat there frankly - I'm just not "convinced" your ready to lay down the folding greens UNLESS, you have your act together beforehand as the "owner" with everything thoroughly thought thru...

He's the boatbuilder, and your who's going to skipper it and you two have to be able to work closely together in a collaberative effirt for a successful custom build IMHO.

It's going to be "hard for him" unless you already have sme pretty concrete ideas about what you want and cann convey these ideas / requirements to him at the right stage of construction....

Nothing worse than finding out "after the fact", that you should have welded something in and haven't or conversly shouldnt have and already have.

Whatabout fuel tanks - whats this thing powered by an inboard diesel? Are you going to have Stainless fuel tanks welded up and fitted?..baffled?..filled with Nosplode?, located where?..vented where?, filled from where?..

Whataout Hawsers?..where are they going?..

You see what I mean, if it were me - I'd be asking the guy for maybe 6 months to think it thru, with a set of plans and making copious notes, annotations of things, talking to suppliers and manufacturers of the equipment your going to include so you have dimensions & min clearances for it all.

This isn't something you should "jump into" IMHO just to be ready for next season...the time spent researching the "details" of equipment available costs and specifications etc will be time well invested even if it means you commence building this time next year! (ready for the next season!).

This is whats involved in "custom builds" when you are dealing direct with the builder yourself, and don't have say an intermediary in the form of the vessels nava architect involved in the project having it built for you.

Even when you do - you still have to almost live at the workshop - coz even naval architects aren't the ones eventually going to have to live with her as her master!

Without the right effort on your part - this boat could end up being your master instead of the other way round - she should be as much "your creation" in terms of how it's all done as the designer and builder.

Hmmm, sorry if thats a bit hard Bazz, trust me I AM trying to help...I've built one myself and know pro skippers well whove built there 3rd and 4th, and this is exactly what THEY do, the good skippers at least!

Thats my 2c, plus some!

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Old 11-09-2002, 11:08 AM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Excellant boat choice.

If you are still looking at comparables, check out Almar, Armstrong, Silver Streak, Eaglecraft, Soundcraft. And in Calif. Moosecraft? Saw them at the Seattle show last winter.

There was a 28 diesel Almar for sale, used, in Blaine Wash a feww weeks ago with Yanmar/Merc for about 120k? Loaded with extras... in the Northwest Boat Trader.

Check out the Alum vs fiberglass thread on this board also.

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Old 11-10-2002, 09:29 AM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Some good points above. I would submit the PacNW aluminum builders put together the toughest, most well thought out alloy boats in the world. I didn't say pretty, but everything will be stuck together well and put in its right place. The entire local industry grew up building commercial boats for the Alaska fisheries and only recently started fitting them out as yachts.

Now for something a little more fun and not bad looking either:

This is a Moose 32 - has been described as a PacNW version of the Hinkley Picnic Boat on acid. Twin 370hp Cummins w/Hamilton Jets-if you gotta ask you can't afford it!

21' Custom Aluminum Workboat, CC, Honda 90
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Old 11-10-2002, 01:01 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Please read info before comments. I am looking for positive stuff not for problems. I do appreciate the help. I have contacted many boat companies since I am looking for a boat to be built to my specs and want to keep this boat for a long time. I have owned 3 used boats and a new Seaswirl Stripper in my 50 years and have 1000’s of hours at sea but I am not experienced with aluminum at all, so I feel the more I ask the best chances of getting the one I want the first time. Here is what I have looked at and have seen and read about over the last 2 years.

Seawolf Marine
Wolf Boats
Coastal Craft
Sea Sport Marine
Stiger Craft
Osprey Boats
Almar Marine
Silver Streak
SeaArk Boats
Alumaweld
Weldcraft boats
Lund Boat Company
Scout Boats
Armstrong Marine
Faralon Boats

28’ SEAWOLF Aluminum Pilot House Boat

STANDARD EQUIPMENT
· Volvo 7.4 GI DP I/O (310 hp)
· Engine box with sound insulation
· Single station hydraulic steering
· 149 gallon fuel tank
· Complete engine instrumentation
· Dual Gp. 30 batteries with switch & cable set
· Electrical panel with 5 circuit breakers
· Trim tab system
· Welded swim step
· 2-1500 GPH automatic bilge pumps
· Heavy-duty aluminum frame marine door and windows
· 3 windshield wipers
· Standard anchor rodelocker & roller
· Welded radar arch
· Welded bow rails and sternrails
· Cast aluminum cleats (welded)
· Two companion seats forward Portside
· Vinyl upholstered helmseat
· Completely finished pilothouse cabin
· Hanging locker
· 5 drawers
· Cupboards
· Storage under helm seat
· International lighting
· Skylight in cuddy
· Choice of colors/carpeted walls
Choice of seating & cabinets
FEATURES
· Available with choice of gas or diesel I/O or Outboard power
· All welded unitized construction
· Precision fit welding for strength and durability (no slotted extrusions)
· Hull seams are welded 100% inside & out
· All welded aluminum deck
· Self-bailing cockpit deck
· 40 degrees deadrise forward for soft ride
· Full walk-around side deck with handrails for safety
· Custom configured to suit your needs
· Huge 7'6" cockpit deck
· Multiple, sealed air chamber flotation
· Unlimited options available


Length 28'3"
Beam 8'10"
Deadrise Aft 12 Degrees
Dearrise Fwd 40 Degrees
Bottom .250" X 90" 1/4" 5086 Aluminum
Sides .160" X 40" 3/16th 5086 Aluminum
Deck .160" X 40" 3/16th 5052 Aluminum


Thanks,

BAZ...



SEABAZ is a 2000 26’ Seaswirl Striper W/A Volvo Penta 5.0GI w/DuoProp
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Old 11-10-2002, 03:36 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

First Steve I agree with you that Sea wolf builds a great Al boat, it was my choice after doing alot of research. As for other considerations that may influence your design, up we mostly troll and we troll no more 2.5 mph. The diesel duoprop won't go that slow, requires a kicker. I prefer an express type of layout because with a pilothouse the driver is removed from the fishing area unless you get a cockpit helm station which limits visability at least on the 33. If you don't troll than these are "no mas" issues. There's plenty of storage in the boat, every hatch is guttered. They even take the time to match the pattern of the diamond plate on the deck and hatch covers. I would look at the ballistic nylon material for helm seat uphostery material. Ask for a list of customers, and talk to them. ...
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Old 11-10-2002, 03:59 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

i noticed that parker was'nt on your list, they make a great boat and have a new 28' model.they have a great website www.parkerboats.net also privateer makes a decent boat as well. good luck.
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Old 11-10-2002, 04:07 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

quote:Originally posted by finadict:
we mostly troll and we troll no more 2.5 mph. The diesel duoprop won't go that slow, requires a kicker. I prefer an express type of layout because with a pilothouse the driver is removed from the fishing area unless you get a cockpit helm station which limits visability at least on the 33. I would look at the ballistic nylon material for helm seat uphostery material. Ask for a list of customers, and talk to them. ...

Thanks.

If I did do some trolling I would be using the 9.9 kicker high torque long shaft motor, it would make this 28' boat hold to about 2 to 3 knots which is barley making a headway.

I do plan on having a helm and remote 2nd station steering on the back deck.

I like the idea of the balistic nylon seating for durability and added strength.

I have a sea trial set up with a current boat owner of a SEAWOLF 25' just like the boat I want.

Thanks for your feedback finadict,

BAZ...



SEABAZ is a 2000 26’ Seaswirl Striper W/A Volvo Penta 5.0GI w/DuoProp
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Old 11-10-2002, 04:21 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

quote:Originally posted by waynesworld:
i noticed that parker was'nt on your list, they make a great boat and have a new 28' model.they have a great website http://www.parkerboats.net also privateer makes a decent boat as well. good luck.

waynesworld,

I know of the Parker boat line. I did not put it on my list because of the boat. I think they are to much $$$'s for the boat. $85,000.00 for the base price and then you build everything on it from that point. Proline is a boat I also looked at and by the time you build it to what you want you have a $140.000 boat. It is also fiberglass like the grady I bought and canceled. I decided for my wifes sake that we would choose a style we could both live with and we agreed on a pilot house style. One I could fish from and one that she could enjoy being on and out of the weather.

BAZ...



SEABAZ is a 2000 26’ Seaswirl Striper W/A Volvo Penta 5.0GI w/DuoProp
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Old 11-10-2002, 04:24 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Have Sea wolf put an built in tank for the kicker and look at the 8 hi thrust from Yamaha it's got a 25 shaft + power tilt and trim makes it a snap to remote. Up here we valve the hydralic steering and place a small ram on the kicker for steering. I had 8hp 4s on our 28 grady and it wou push 5,6 knots easy, so it'll be just fine for your application....
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Old 11-10-2002, 05:24 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

quote:Originally posted by finadict:
Have Sea wolf put an built in tank for the kicker and look at the 8 hi thrust from Yamaha it's got a 25 shaft + power tilt and trim makes it a snap to remote. Up here we valve the hydralic steering and place a small ram on the kicker for steering. I had 8hp 4s on our 28 grady and it wou push 5,6 knots easy, so it'll be just fine for your application....

It has a built in 20 gallon tank right in front of it on the transom. The swim platform bracket is set up for the kicker with hudrolic power tilt and trim already. http://community.webshots.com/album/54495935GGTbfN take a look at the factory building a 25'

BAZ...



SEABAZ is a 2000 26’ Seaswirl Striper W/A Volvo Penta 5.0GI w/DuoProp
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Old 11-10-2002, 06:19 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

Steve ,

Can you share with me your experience with the seaswirl 26 .quality/ride Thanks.

HW

hw
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Old 11-10-2002, 07:50 PM
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Default Choosing Aluminum over Fiberglass for my new PilotHouse boat.

quote:Originally posted by hwelbergen:
Steve ,

Can you share with me your experience with the seaswirl 26 .quality/ride Thanks.

HW

hw

HW,

I hope by being candid with you about my experience with my boat you do not judge the entire boat by. I purchased my new 2000 seaswirl striper in the summer and had a blast with it. Then I started having issues. My bilge pump was running all the time and I constantly had water in my bilge. This never happened on my 3 other boats so I contacted the dealer and they looked at it saying that it was not a problem. Then I had a bilge pump failure and my boat was swamped and had as a result starter issues because of the water intrusion and was towed in by Vessel Assist. I took the boat back to the dealer who replaced the starter and the bilge pump. Ging out over the next couple of trips were fine and then at the dock my boat would not start and had another frozen starter. I returned to tothe dealer and said I wanted them to replace the boat and now I got there attention. They replaced the starter agian and put a 2nd bildge pump on the boat. Then I noticed water in the holds in the cuddy and all of our stored stuff was constantly wet. So we were taking water on some where else. and I took the boat back with other water intrusion issues. This now is going on for 2 years and we are now in 2002 finally I contacted an attorney with complaints on the California lemon law. he had me send a suit letter asking Genmar, Seaswirl, Volvo Penta, Johnson Marine to buy back my boat. Then the wheels started turning and Johnson Marine called us asking to inspect the boat for Seaswirl. They found the leak. It was a crack shift cable boot that had to do with the transmission linkage and they found other leaks up forward in the chain locker so they drilled holes in the storage areas that drained into the bildge, replaced another starter, alternater, electrical connections, replaced all the butt connectors and everything in the engine compartment but the motor including the computer module and ect ect ect. Things were fine until June when the engine was not running right and after that I was floored to find out the upper end had burned valve issues. They had to do upper end costing me more $$$'s and I am in litigation with Johnson Marine again because when they put the Duo-Prop on the boat they put the wrong size props which put to much of a load on the moter and caused high exhaust gas temps that burned the upper end. I am going to sue everyone hoping to get my money back and try bying a boat that will not give me problems I have had over the last 3 years with 5 tows 12 returns to the dealer. Saftey issues and a complete pain in the a$$.

Sorry to tell you this but my story is not over and when it is I will have all my investment back + trouble plus anything else I can get from this dealer fro misrepresentation.

BAZ...



SEABAZ is a 2000 26’ Seaswirl Striper W/A Volvo Penta 5.0GI w/DuoProp
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