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Random Quote: Things are more like they are now than they ever have been.
Was checking out the Black Lab website and saw they are going to build large center consoles called the Rock Salt line modeled after yellowfin, seavee and contender. Can't wait to see the first one. Bet it will cost a bundle
For the record - I have no idea who johnspear is.. Thank you.
Sure you don't know who he is.....................[img]../images/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img][img]../images/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] jk
Nice looking rig Jay. I was looking on the BL site. Did you drop the 19-20?
Andy
__________________ Andy Munao Our new parts site: www.simyamaha.com Yamaha Outboard Sales, Parts and Service 1-800-213-3323 parts@shipyardisland.com Click the logo to see our THT Vendor Forum
ha ha I'm just a lurker that didn't see any other posts about these boats and want to know more about em. I've been a member since 06 it's about time I posted something!
__________________
F350 4x4/ Dodge 2500HD 5.9L Cummins
Leaving the Picture of the Ford cuz I miss it
Pacific 2325 cc
Honda bf225
aluminumalloyboats.com
What would be the advantage of this boat over similar sized fiberglass models?
A great question.
I have always admired the (smaller) Black Lab boats, well made, and for a gearhead like me just a neat series of boats. Now that they are building a 34', this puts them squarely in the thick of the highly competetive 32'-36' center consosle space, and it will be interesting to see how this boat stacks up against the best of the best.
This space is dominated by lightweight, very fast and fuel efficient hulls, many are derivatives of offshore race hulls. These boats are built in FRP, and at least partially cored, many, such as mine are fully cored. Some have exotic stepped hull designs.
Competing against cored FRP technology in a lightweight CC is a tall order for a metal boat.
As I see it, there are two obstacles to overcome.
1.) Weight. When weight is measured as a function of stiffness, it's pretty hard to beat FRP sandwich core construction.
2.) Shape. Molded FRP boats can be whatever contour is most efficient to pass through the water, in fact, the shape is driven mostly by hydrodynamics and lift. Manufacture is really not a concern. Metal is not easy to contour, it likes "ruled" or "developable" surfaces, which normally means curvature only in one direction at a time. At best, this is a compromise and cannot compete with the limitless shape possibilites of female molded FRP.
FRP in general and cored hulls in particular have their own problems, most of which are overcome in aluminum. There is no perfect material for building boats.
I'm going to keep an open mind and see how well the very capable people behind this craft succeed with this nicely laid out CC.
What would be the advantage of this boat over similar sized fiberglass models?
A great question.
I have always admired the (smaller) Black Lab boats, well made, and for a gearhead like me just a neat series of boats. Now that they are building a 34', this puts them squarely in the thick of the highly competetive 32'-36' center consosle space, and it will be interesting to see how this boat stacks up against the best of the best.
This space is dominated by lightweight, very fast and fuel efficient hulls, many are derivatives of offshore race hulls. These boats are built in FRP, and at least partially cored, many, such as mine are fully cored. Some have exotic stepped hull designs.
Competing against cored FRP technology in a lightweight CC is a tall order for a metal boat.
As I see it, there are two obstacles to overcome.
1.) Weight. When weight is measured as a function of stiffness, it's pretty hard to beat FRP sandwich core construction.
2.) Shape. Molded FRP boats can be whatever contour is most efficient to pass through the water, in fact, the shape is driven mostly by hydrodynamics and lift. Manufacture is really not a concern. Metal is not easy to contour, it likes "ruled" or "developable" surfaces, which normally means curvature only in one direction at a time. At best, this is a compromise and cannot compete with the limitless shape possibilites of female molded FRP.
FRP in general and cored hulls in particular have their own problems, most of which are overcome in aluminum. There is no perfect material for building boats.
I'm going to keep an open mind and see how well the very capable people behind this craft succeed with this nicely laid out CC.
Great questions - appreciated.
A good new product (like our Rock Salt 34') should, if it wishes to be successful, solve a problem or problems.
The fiberglass guys - Yellowfin, SeaVee, Contender, (Sea Hunt!) etc all make great boats - they drive well, ride well and fish well. People might have different preferences or likes but I don't think someone could say that they are bad boats. So why make an additional boat in this category and why do it out of metal. What problem or problems do we solve for the hard core offshore fisherman?
Durability, Stability. Maintenence.
Durability. For many, many fishermen fiberglass is just fine (obviously!). But we've found over the past 12 years that there are a percentage of hard core guys who like something bulletproof. A boat where if your nephew swings a lead weight against the side you just smile. Where you can let a novice learn to dock it without having a heartrate of 180. No stresscracks. No T-Tops simply screwed to the deck. Its an incredibly freeing feeling to not worry about your boat's surfaces! Simply put aluminum alloy is way more durable than fiberglass.
Stability. I don't know how many times on this forum I've read the "deadrise" question. 90% of the time it is framed in the more "deadrise equals a smoother ride". But more deadrise also equals less stability on a drift. With an aluminum alloy hull we can have more weight low and centered than in a fiberglass hull which will result in a lower center of gravity. The additional weight was put in as more framing belowdecks to make an even stiffer boat. This additional weight is also low and centered. Our boats will be more stable.
Maintenance. I was at the Norwalk Boat Show last year. It was early morning before the show opened and I was walking around admiring some of the well-executed large center consoles. As I was looking at the Everglades 350CC a guy came out with a bucket, various cleaning supplies and some rags. He was a boat detailer hired by the boat dealership to clean the boats every morning. I said that I liked the boat to him and he said that, yes, it is a nice boat but it took him an hour and a half every morning to clean it and still the dealersip found spots he had missed. He did the commissioning cleanings on their new sales and said that they were simply a nightmare. On our boats we squirt them with a hose and walk away. The Rock Salt 34' will be a very low maintenance boat.
The above should answer fishcops more general question of the advantages of a metal boat over a fiberglass boat.
To answer darbikrash's more specific questions:
Weight. In our Black Lab boats we normally end up much lighter than our fiberglass competition - for instance:
Parker 23' Center Console - 3500lbs
Steiger 23' Center Console - 4600lbs
Regulator 23' Center Console - 3800lbs
Black Lab 23' Center Console - 2600lbs
In the new Rock Salt line we're expecting to be about the same weight or maybe a little more than the competition. We've made the boats heavier on purpose as ride is a function of weight and shape and we don't want someone saying that our ride isn't as good as the fiberglass guys!
Shape. First off you are correct that metal is waaaaay more difficult to make into complex 3-d curves. The beautiful "carolina" flare found on the sides of boats like Regulator can be made in metal but would be time consuming and expensive. Darb - you suggested that because we won't be making such curves we'll be at a disadvantage vis-a-vis fiberglass. Let me disagree (kindly and gently!)
First - the bottom. Every boat bottom on the market today is a "developable" surface. I can make you a Regulator, Contender, SeaVee, Midnight Expresss, etc bottom easily and quickly of of alumunum alloy plate. As far as "steps" are concerned - they too can be made out of plate but with more time and effort. We're not planning on a stepped bottom. Within the go fast crowd there seems to be a bit of controversy about how much these "steps" really help.
Second - the sides. Here's where people always think that aluminum alloy plate is the loser. Since plates cannot easily be made to "flare" the boats therefore must be "wet" and "ugly"... Let me ask a question. Are Intrepids wet and ugly? Are Jupiters wet and ugly? Are Everglades wet and ugly? All three of these builders have sides that are developable surfaces. Yup. No flare at all. I think that they are beautiful and capable boats. Further, because they don't have the flare they are more able to have "flat" foredecks with no step-up (fishermen in this class seem to dislike the step-up!) and, additionally, have more foredeck room. Almost everyone who sees a boat with no "flare" says that because it has no flare it must be "wet". The consensus opinion is that when a boat's bow plunges into a wave that the "flare" will send the water off the boat at a lower trajectory and, thus keep the operator and passengers "dry". This may well be correct - I haven't seen, nor have I done, any testing on the subject but I have a hard time believing that in a 20 knot quartering breeze that an Intrepid 32' leaves people wet and a Regulator leaves people dry. If that water is leaving the side at an angle that is 20 degrees less high I would still think that the wind would grab it and bring it back over the boat. More important, I think, is the design of the "chine". In most of these boats a bow plunge up the the gunwales is a relatively rare occurance. Most of the time water is being thrown to the sides at the chine. A well designed "reverse chine" of appropriate shape and size is much more important than flare. The Rock Salt has an aggressive reverse chine. In my humble opinion the only way to ASSURE a dry ride is to get behind something - glass, stratiglass, etc.
Our goal with the new Rock Salt boats is to give the offshore guy a similar looks to fiberglass, similar ride to fibeglass, similar dryness to fiberglass and similar fishability to fiberglass all wrapped into a more durable, more stable and less maintenance aluminum alloy package - make sense?
As always we welcome input!
Thank you.
__________________
Jay Perrotta
Black Lab Marine Partners, LLC
Rock Salt Alloy Boats, LLC
Yarmouth, Maine, USA
PH: 207-400-7404 Jay@blacklabmarine.com
Almost everyone who sees a boat with no "flare" says that because it has no flare it must be "wet". The consensus opinion is that when a boat's bow plunges into a wave that the "flare" will send the water off the boat at a lower trajectory and, thus keep the operator and passengers "dry". This may well be correct - I haven't seen, nor have I done, any testing on the subject but I have a hard time believing that in a 20 knot quartering breeze that an Intrepid 32' leaves people wet and a Regulator leaves people dry. If that water is leaving the side at an angle that is 20 degrees less high I would still think that the wind would grab it and bring it back over the boat. More important, I think, is the design of the "chine". In most of these boats a bow plunge up the the gunwales is a relatively rare occurance. Most of the time water is being thrown to the sides at the chine. A well designed "reverse chine" of appropriate shape and size is much more important than flare.
This is one of the most true statements i have ever seen on this forum. Carolina flare was not designed to keep a boat dry it was designed to punch trough waves and not stuff the bow. Ever notice that Carolina boats have a large reverse and or a spray rail?
I'd definately give, at the very least, my left nut for that rig. WOW. I'm going to go in the closet and do dirty things to myself while I think about owning one of those boats. Thanks for the boat porn!
Good looking boat....finally. But seriously, whats with all the f#@king jerkoffs that ramble on about how many post you have and what the content of that post may be. THIS IS AN OPEN FORUM! Keep that in mind next time you forum nazi rattle off about who said what and why. Idiot!
I'd definately give, at the very least, my left nut for that rig. WOW. I'm going to go in the closet and do dirty things to myself while I think about owning one of those boats. Thanks for the boat porn!
Jay is actually running a special on these boats......but it involves both nuts
I gave my right eye for that boat and now I see the price is going up by two nuts ? Inflation in Alloy boat market . That new rocksalt will be such high demand that Guys will be selling body parts on the black market just to get a look at it .
Much success to Rock Salt , I can't wait to see one on TV.
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15'3" Hobie Power Skiff 30 hp Zuke
20'3" Pacific Skiff 140 hp Zuke
Rock Salt 34' by Black Lab marine
