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Old 02-04-2008, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Bullshipper,

I like you idea of comparing a world cat (or other cat) to a mono, but there needs to be a realistic comparison in price. I would image that a 27 Alloy cat that has a 11-12ft beam would be much more expensive than the 27 contender. I think under this comparison, you would have to use price as a factor. Say the 27X11ft cat runs about 150K loaded out, well thats about the same as a 33T contender. The 33T contender will be trailerable and still offer an exceptional ride. Do you think that the 27ft cat would out ride a 33T contender, 33 Palmetto,etc that would be around the same price point? If so, you would probably have a market for that boat.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Bingo.

Price/ride comparisons are the essence of the discussion here, and are deal maker/breakers when you go to buy a boat too.

If you can buy a 33 contender for the price of a 27'WC, it explains why Contender sells more boats.

And I would guess that the bigger contender would have the better ride.

But that price/sizeand ride difference is only because you can't currently get a 12' beam cat factory direct.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

I have lots of hours/miles in a WC 27te in various sea conditions, also time in monos up to 40 ft.....hard to compare a 34ft against a 27 ft'er.....I agree that price should be a criteria, but not the basic criteria.....I liked the 27te WC....very stable and quick....much drier than any mono I've been in in similar seas....the WC was much more stable at rest than any deep vee mono I've been in....hopefully guys chiming in are speaking from experience, not speculation......if I had 150K to spend....I'd probably get 2 boats...or one boat and a super model....maybe just the model.....Mick
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

These guys might build you a 12' beam , factory direct

http://www.armstrongmarine.com/
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

These guys might build you a 12' beam , factory direct

http://www.armstrongmarine.com/

Flood control with the first post??
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:42 AM
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Default RE: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

These guys will build one 12' wide as well



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Old 02-05-2008, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

I have to agree with BigTuna. I haven't been on a Cat in probably 6 years or so, but I was so unimpressed at that time, I don't know if I'll ever commit myself to climbing back on one again. Especially if I know I'm going to be stuck on it for hours and hours.

I think what Bigtuna may have been trying to say when he says he got "beat up", is that after hanging on for dear life in a Cat for hours on end, you feel like death warmed over. What I found is that while the Cats don't "pound" like a mono, their unpredictable reactions will cause extreme fatigue. Here's what I mean by that. What I experienced on every one of my Cat trips was that I could not watch the waves ahead of the boat and predict how the hull would react when it hit those waves. By contrast, in a mono hull, I can very accurately predict what the boat will do by watching the waves ahead of the boat. When I see a large, steep wave coming, I can tighten my grip, losen up my knees and be perfectly prepared for that large. steep wave as the boat hits it. I've watched offshore newbies in my boat do the same thing. After 5 minutes in my boat, they can accurately predict how the boat will react by watching the seas directly in front of the boat. It only takes them about 5 - 10 minutes to "learn" this. In all of my Cat rides, I was NEVER able to predict accurately how the hull would react by watching the seas in front of the boat. And neither was anyone else on those trips. What this resulted in was that for the entire trip, I was hanging on for dear life. I was never able to relax my grip and my entire body stayed tensed up for the whole trip. Each time I got off one of those trips, I felt I had been thru a wringer. I wasn't "beat up", but I think I'd have rather been! To say nothing of the sneezing and the bow dipping into the next wave and "tossing" 500 gallons of water into the cockpit.

To me, while the Cats certainly don't pound, (unless you're riding close to the transom, which certainly does pound) the cons heavily outweigh the pros. Until something changes, I'll stick with my mono. After all, I can't fish every day,and I can certainly pick my days on the water. I usually pick days that are 2' or less and in those seas I can cruise up to 50 mph comfortably. If it's 3'+, I'll stay home and do honey-do's or work on the boat.

I would like to experience a planning Cat hull though. But I really wonder whether it would ride any better than a planning mono. Didn't Grady have a palnning Cat a while back? Why did they discontinue it?

And for the record, I have a Contender and I'm perfectly happy with the ride, layout, storage, appearance and performance. I can't imagine trying to land a 100+ lb yellowfin from as high up as most Cats ride. I have a wash down in my boat, but usually about once or so a trip, I find myself leaning over the side of the boat to fill a bucket with water. Something that's just impossible from the Cat's I have experience with.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

I won't address any other cats than my own 330TE, but in that cat, you don't get tossed around or fatigued. I REGULARLY run 36-48 hour trips and never feel beat up afterwards.

Harry
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Quote:
beach_trade - 2/4/2008 6:28 PM

bigtuna I have a hard time believing you owned a World Cat based on your statement that "it was a turd that beat you to death".

I have a World Cat 27SF and I am very pleased with the ride. People who complain about this hulls ride either don't know how to trim it properly or have too much weight in the bow. This hull does not pound or beat ya to death at all, period.

I have launched my 27 clear out of the water and the landing is amazingly soft, no bone jarring pounding.

Also, in a beam sea I have found that trimming the engines individually to keep one or the other sponson from digging in helps the ride as well. There have been times where I have one engine trimmed up far more than the other to compensate for the seas and the ride is excellent when I get it right.

It's not a point and shoot hull, you actually have to work the trim to drive this boat.
You better start believing! If you would like I will upload pictures of my old world cat with us on it??? The boat did beat us and I was very dissappointed with it. Now I will say...most of the times we went out we had 5 guys, 15 dive tanks, gear, 400 lbs of ice...etc....so the boat had a lot of weight and was sitting low in the water. Hull slap all the way out...even in smaller seas...and I worked the trim the whole time and tried many different things. Maybe I was expecting too much out of the boat...but after putting 250 hrs on it...I saw no good reason to own a world cat over a quality mono...and felt that the regulators, contender, etc all really were better riding boats, faster, and better looking...sorry...that is just what I took in from the whole experience.

Bully,

Yes...I understand what you are saying and I guess that I worded that wrong. I personally just had a bad experience with cats after owning my world cat. The boat was in no way a POS...it was just very overrated...and I really just hated the ride. I should not generalize all cats based on my experience with the world cat...I am sure there are many others that are very capable...guess it all comes down to what you personally want
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

I am in no way saying that world cat is not an excellent line of boats. I have never been on any of the other models including the 33 which I have heard is a beast. I am just comparing the 27 world cat with a contender of the same size (25/27). I was far more impressed with the contender. I really think that if we would have been running lighter loads in my world cat...it would have been just fine. It just really did not ride like a 100k cat should ride with a lot of weight in it...which is how we ran 90 percent of the time...even in calmer seas
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Whoa....most of what is described is the exact opposite of my experience....I find the cats ride much softer, easier on the old bod in rough seas, I am able to relax and sit in my cat instead of standing, having a death grip on something, cushioning the re-entry with my knees...catching spray....I currently run a 26 twin vee...it IS sensitive to weight and trim, comparing it to other 26 footers, it is my choice for sure....compared to a 36 mono....probably not.....to say the WC is a turd, pounds and is unpredictable, may be due to overloading?...I found the 27te to be very capable and comfortable....what was the total amount of weight on board?....still hard to compare a mid 20ft cat to a mid 30ft mono.....all of the above...IMO....Mick
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Quote:
slickster - 2/5/2008 9:15 AM

Whoa....most of what is described is the exact opposite of my experience....I find the cats ride much softer, easier on the old bod in rough seas, I am able to relax and sit in my cat instead of standing, having a death grip on something, cushioning the re-entry with my knees...catching spray....I currently run a 26 twin vee...it IS sensitive to weight and trim, comparing it to other 26 footers, it is my choice for sure....compared to a 36 mono....probably not.....to say the WC is a turd, pounds and is unpredictable, may be due to overloading?...I found the 27te to be very capable and comfortable....what was the total amount of weight on board?....still hard to compare a mid 20ft cat to a mid 30ft mono.....all of the above...IMO....Mick
THe weight would usually be 5 guys, 15 scuba tanks, dive gear for 5, 400 lbs of ice, 240 gallons of fuel, boat gear, food/drinks. There was nothing I could do to make the boat ride good with a heavy load...even if it was smaller 2 ft seas. Every wave would come up under the boat and slap the bottom of the hull...not very comfortable. The boat did beat us... I personally owned it and ran many trips on it...I am not lying about it...I sold it after riding on the contender...the ride was very average (at least with some weight in the boat)...not nearly as nice as a contender ride where the weight actually helps the ride out

THis is a contender vs world cat thread...I am giving my personal experience...not trying to bash anyones rigs

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Old 02-05-2008, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

bigtuna it sounds like you were clearly overloaded as I have never felt hull slap once on plane in any seas. My normal load is much less, full fuel, 3-4 guys with fishing gear and 300lbs of ice and a full 35 gallon livewell. By the time we are loading the boat with fish we have burned 30-60 gallons so that part balances out.

I could understand why you think the ride is lousy if you were experiencing hull slap at speed. Under those circumstances yes it would pound.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Its like ford and chevy the debate will go on aslong as the boats are made. Test ride both and buy the one you like.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Quote:
bigtuna - 2/5/2008 9:46 AM

Quote:
slickster - 2/5/2008 9:15 AM

Whoa....most of what is described is the exact opposite of my experience....I find the cats ride much softer, easier on the old bod in rough seas, I am able to relax and sit in my cat instead of standing, having a death grip on something, cushioning the re-entry with my knees...catching spray....I currently run a 26 twin vee...it IS sensitive to weight and trim, comparing it to other 26 footers, it is my choice for sure....compared to a 36 mono....probably not.....to say the WC is a turd, pounds and is unpredictable, may be due to overloading?...I found the 27te to be very capable and comfortable....what was the total amount of weight on board?....still hard to compare a mid 20ft cat to a mid 30ft mono.....all of the above...IMO....Mick
THe weight would usually be 5 guys, 15 scuba tanks, dive gear for 5, 400 lbs of ice, 240 gallons of fuel, boat gear, food/drinks. There was nothing I could do to make the boat ride good with a heavy load...even if it was smaller 2 ft seas. Every wave would come up under the boat and slap the bottom of the hull...not very comfortable. The boat did beat us... I personally owned it and ran many trips on it...I am not lying about it...I sold it after riding on the contender...the ride was very average (at least with some weight in the boat)...not nearly as nice as a contender ride where the weight actually helps the ride out

THis is a contender vs world cat thread...I am giving my personal experience...not trying to bash anyones rigs


This is exactly what we had talked about Big Tuna where a foil is very helpful because cats do NOT like a lot of weight. The foil would make the overweight cat run like a lightweight cat giving much more tunnel clearance while stabilizing the hull at the same time.
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

I think the major premise has faded in this discussion. What's the best riding boat for $60K, $70K, $80K etc? In this comparo? For example, back when twin-vees were rare, wierd and $30000 rigged etc, you were hard pressed to find a better riding boat for that money. (Impossible in my opinion) BUt now that they are $80K or whatever, forget it.

I think a 27 WC rides better overall than a similar sized mono (my experience, Fountain and Scarab) When money is out the window, then so is the comparison. I think that a Noosa Cat 8 or 9 meter I rode on was the best overall riding and performing boat Ive ever ridden on, but that is probably $160K boat now? For that kinda money. . . . . .
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Quote:
doughnut - 2/5/2008 2:46 PM

I think the major premise has faded in this discussion. What's the best riding boat for $60K, $70K, $80K etc? In this comparo? For example, back when twin-vees were rare, wierd and $30000 rigged etc, you were hard pressed to find a better riding boat for that money. (Impossible in my opinion) BUt now that they are $80K or whatever, forget it.

I think a 27 WC rides better overall than a similar sized mono (my experience, Fountain and Scarab) When money is out the window, then so is the comparison. I think that a Noosa Cat 8 or 9 meter I rode on was the best overall riding and performing boat Ive ever ridden on, but that is probably $160K boat now? For that kinda money. . . . . .
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Quote:
bigtuna - 2/5/2008 7:42 AM
Now I will say...most of the times we went out we had 5 guys, 15 dive tanks, gear, 400 lbs of ice...etc....so the boat had a lot of weight and was sitting low in the water.

Hull slap all the way out...even in smaller seas...and I worked the trim the whole time and tried many different things.
Let do the math.
5 guys @ 200 each = 1000lb
5 gear @ 50 each = 250lb
15 tanks @ 50 each = 750lb
ice = 400lb
240gal gas = 1560lb

total load of 3960lb. the boat itself weight in ~6250 dry w/ twin honda 225.


I can totally relate to what you are saying. With such load. The tunnel clearance is greatly reduced. The pounding you are getting is from the water hitting the lowered tunnel.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Quote:
UaVaj - 2/5/2008 5:33 PM

Quote:
bigtuna - 2/5/2008 7:42 AM
Now I will say...most of the times we went out we had 5 guys, 15 dive tanks, gear, 400 lbs of ice...etc....so the boat had a lot of weight and was sitting low in the water.

Hull slap all the way out...even in smaller seas...and I worked the trim the whole time and tried many different things.
Let do the math.
5 guys @ 200 each = 1000lb
5 gear @ 50 each = 250lb
15 tanks @ 50 each = 750lb
ice = 400lb
240gal gas = 1560lb

total load of 3960lb. the boat itself weight in ~6250 dry w/ twin honda 225.


I can totally relate to what you are saying. With such load. The tunnel clearance is greatly reduced. The pounding you are getting is from the water hitting the lowered tunnel.
Very true. If I was going out all the time with 4 or 5 guys most of the time with normal fishing loads...the boat would have fit my needs a lot better. The fact is...90 percent of the time we were going out with dive loads or heavy offshore canyon loads...which resulted in a poor ride. Another plus to the contender for me was that the more weight you put in it...the better the ride was (if distributed correctly). Guess it all comes down to what you use the boat for
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Lets end the debate- World Cat v/s Contender

Anyone going to the Miami Show who would like to take a ride and compare with some of the others there, we will have a 330TE w/300 zukes, 290DC w/225 Hondas, and 270TE w/225 hondas for your riding pleasure. Please let me know if you would like to schedule a sea trial because the slots are filling fast. I will also mail you tickets for the show, if you decide to sea trial.

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