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Old 09-05-2003, 11:06 AM
  #21    
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Default Boat Loans and Credit Score

You gotta be high not to think that the credit reporting agencies are in collusion with the lenders..... They use any little excuse to knock you out of the low interest loan grouops and into B and C tiers. The best advice is to go to another lender and present your package. Competition is the best cure for crap like this. By the way, while 680 is not at the top, I got financed at 5.75% with less than perfect credit on a boat loan..... You gotta shop. I ended up using a local bank with in house lending ability that knew me, my practice, and I had been with for a while.
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Old 09-05-2003, 12:03 PM
  #22    
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I know more about FICO and various stuff than I ever want to know.

Last September someone broke into my car and stole my wife's purse. Driver's license, credit cards, social security card, etc. and $8 I think.

I purchased a system that would allow me to order our credit report on demand daily for a year in order to monitor and make sure no one tried to become her in the credit world.

We've had no problems, but while I was watching for this I began to look at and tried to understand the so called FICO or Fair Issac Company scoring.

My score was not what it should have been, but I realized it was my fault for not paying attention to a few things so I began to focus on bringing it up.

I began the trek in October of last year. By June 30th I had the score to 709 and was feeling pretty good. I eliminated the balance on one revolving card in June so on July 1st I checked to see if that card company had reported. It had not, but...my score had dropped to from 709 to 676 in one day.

Why? I checked all the data and nothing was new or added or different other than one day on the calendar had passed. So I started calling and emailing.

I bought the checking system through Equifax so I began there. They couldn't tell me after three different people including a supervisor reviewed it. So they finally gave me a number to old "Fair Issac" himself, or at least one of his employees.

They were very nice, but couldn't tell me either. I was not seeking nor did I need any credit so I called a friend and banker and asked her what she knew of this system.

She laughed and said she never could figure it out either. I told her I was now on a mission to figure out how this worked and would stay in touch.

Several days later I got an email from Equifax that said, and I paraphrase..."in June you were in the upper range of a comparison group and then you score improved enough that the system moved you to another 'higher credit' comparison group where you were now on the low end."

I called my banker and asked if they got anything other than a raw score from Beacon or FICO? What I was looking for was to see if a score was also accompanied by a level of credit worthiness.

The banker said "no, we just get a score. I thought these numbers showed individual creditors compared to the population at large."

About that time I heard from the Fair Issac people again. This lady said that my score was adverse because I had one credit card with over 50% debt to limit and three with zero balances. She said the computer module prefers to see 4 accounts with small balances than zero in 3 and 52% in one. I asked her about the email from Equifax on comparison groups. There was a deadly silence followed by, "we don't do that." (I still have the email from Equifax)

On July 31st, I checked again. Nothing had been reported on my revolving debt different than July 1st, but the score had jumped to 692 with no change other than showing I paid my house payment that month.

Therefore, as I've watched this, the score fell in one day by 31 points and jumped back up 20 points in 30 days with no real difference in credit changes for the entire period.

To this day neither Equfax which keeps saying, "we don't do the score, we just report it", and FICO who talks in vague terms can tell me how this formula truly works or at least they won't tell me.

One other thing I should mention because I can't understand it is a "negative" that now shows up. Last October this negative was there and it said my revolving credit was too high in relationship to my credit available.

I think it was 71% at that time showing that the national average is 34%. Something like $28,000 out of $40,000 I owed. I couldn't but agree with them, so I started paying it down and the FICO number which was 642 started to rise just like the system said it would.

Once my balances were less than 50% of my line this negative stopped showing up.

Until July 1st then it popped back up.

This time it said my balance of 31% of my line was too high compared to the national average of 34%. I really didn't understand how I could be below average and still be considered a negative and quite honestly no one at FICO or Equifax would even try to explain that one.

I now have $2,400 of debt on one card with 4 open with a total line of $43,000. The other three are now zero. That $2,400 will be paid off in September.

I'm truly curious to see what kind of score I see at the end of September when I have a zero balance on all revolving debt.

No where is income or assets figured in this score and thus a banker that knows you does have some leeway with these scores, but bankers and consumers truly don't understand how the system works.

I can pay off all my debts including installment debts tomorrow if I so choose, but that ability is never considered in a score.

The best I can determine is that a score is used to see if you'll actually pay your bills on time and if you'll do so year after year.

I think this checking system costs about $60 dollars a year and you can pull your report daily.

It wasn't so much about credit and accounts that I found out it simply showed me that all those years of laying a bill on the back of my desk to pay later and then forgetting until the new bill came and then paying two at once was not what they were seeking.

Fair Issac developed this module and if there is someone there named "Issac" the manner in how it works is his secret and he hasn't shared with his own employees.

After your name, these scores are the first thing creditors look at. I'm trying to learn so the next time I seek credit I want to know where I am and where to be before I ask. However I'm still learning how the system works, but paying your bills on time and paying off balances doesn't necessarily give you expected results.

Somewhere in this formula is a profile they are looking for. Is it three revolving accounts with 10% debt to credit ratios or 2 or 4 with positive activity every month?

I don't know...and they won't tell.

I'm just paying all mine off except AX which likes their money every month anyway and shredding the rest of my offers.

I'm going to keep one Visa open for those places they adverstise that won't take AX.
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Old 09-05-2003, 01:26 PM
  #23    
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I keep one visa and keep a small Balance on it shread 5 offers a week at least and pay cash for everything else .... but tell us/me this. who is safe to order your credit report and score from ...I'm still leary of those people...John
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Old 09-05-2003, 02:39 PM
  #24    
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Default Boat Loans and Credit Score

jtburf,

the legal ways entities can get yur credit reports/scores if you have an existing credit relationship with them, or want to have credit (apply)with them. couple other more narrow requirements, too.

the CC offers we get bombarded with eminate from the semi-public part of our credit reports, the "header" info that has our names, addresses, phone #s, that are culled from all the credit apps we've filled out over the years.

you should get yur credit report/scores periodically, see who has taken a peek at it.

and NO -- john ashcroft's name will NOT be there. he leaves no fingerprints
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Old 09-05-2003, 03:57 PM
  #25    
Dae
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Default Boat Loans and Credit Score

Here are a few things to help with your credit score.

1. Keep you balance to credit limit under 30%.

2. Have diverse credit; installment loans, credit cards, etc.

3. Have a long credit history 10+ years or longer are better.

4. Never be late on any payment.

5. If shopping for a rate for such things as cars or home, try and have all reports pulled with in 14 days as this counts as only one pull on your credit report. The only problem with this is that some loan companies do not pull your report correctly which can cause these multiple pulls to count.

6. Use your credit. If you don't use your credit they can't score it. It's because to just pay your balance off every month because they way it gets reported to the credit agency's is the last balance that was sent on your statement.

There are alot of other things and things you can do to raise your credit but it not something you can do over night.

BTW, if your problem is that you don't have revolving credit, try getting a family member/close friend with a credit card that has never been late on a payment, low balance to limit and a account that is old (Over 2 years is best) to add you to the account as an authorized user. Check with the card issuier 1st to make sure they report authorized users, but once it hits your report, it should increase you score.


Also, Experican can't tell you why your score is low (BTW, there are many people out there that would kill for a 680 FICO scored). They are only giving you a best guess like myself as they are not the ones that setup the scoreing system. The worst is some of these reps you speak with have no idea on what can raise or lower your score. I had one tell me cancelling my credit cards except one would raise my score. So far it's been the opposite. After I got a new card, it would at 1st reduce my score by aprox 10 points but by the time I had it for 6 months, I was 10 points higher then where I originally started. I feel the main reason for this is because my overall balance to limit ratio had decreased, but it needed sometime for the positive to out way the negative of reducing my over all lenght of credit history and the credit check.
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Old 09-05-2003, 04:06 PM
  #26    
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quote:Originally posted by jtburf:
I keep one visa and keep a small Balance on it shread 5 offers a week at least and pay cash for everything else .... but tell us/me this. who is safe to order your credit report and score from ...I'm still leary of those people...John

I pull my credit report everyday from privacyguard.com. Because the reports are for myself, they do not appear to others and they don't count against my FICO score. Privacy Guard gives a Credit Xpert score based on your Equifax report but most lenders use the FICO score and these scores don't need to match but are close. I pull my Equifax/Experion/Transunion score ever 5 months or so with a real FICO score using Myfico.com. BTW, Privacy Guard has an offer for 3 months for $1; afterwards it's $90/year. Don't ask me why I pull my reports everyday but I got hooked on it from watching my Credit Xpert score change with my balance changes and new accounts I opened.
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Old 09-05-2003, 04:56 PM
  #27    
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Read this guys site about rtying to get the basic answers about scoring. This is a bizarre runaround which supports my theory that scoring is arbitrary. I would really like to file a class action on this subject!!

http://www.creditscoring.com/letters/equifax.htm
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Old 09-05-2003, 05:45 PM
  #28    
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My wife worked in the credit business for several years. They spent a lot of time and money on some very smart people trying to duplice the FICO scoring process - couldn't do it. It's a proprietary scoring process that they go to great lengths to protect. They have also established a strong correlation between FICO scores and future default probabilities that gives Fair Isaac a very strong hold on the credit market.
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Old 09-05-2003, 06:02 PM
  #29    
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Dae is right on, if you follow his suggestions, you will improve or at least better understand your score. stan

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Old 09-06-2003, 04:16 AM
  #30    
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according to my brother in law mortgage expert, maintaining payments and keeping cc balances low and paying on time does not improve your credit score, financing big ticket items, cars, boats, homes, and flipping and paying off early will turn a rotten egg golden. Having been turned down for an advertised re-fi rate early in the year taught me a few things, one being to borrow from my 401k at 4%
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Old 09-06-2003, 05:22 AM
  #31    
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This is an issue that everyone should be paying attention to, even if you do not anticipate refinancing your home or taking out any type of loan. Many auto and homeowner insurance companies now use your credit score as an underwriting tool. A bad score can disqualify you from getting coverage in some companies and even if coverage is offered it can effect the rate, sometimes drastically. Many companies have two or more rating tiers. Same coverage on all the policies but the rates can vary 30 - 50%. Call your broker and question them on what pricing tier you are in. Complain. Sometimes all you need to do is push them a little to get the prefered rate.

Capt. Michael


23' Pacific Aluminum CC/225 Yamaha Four Stroke
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Old 09-06-2003, 06:26 AM
  #32    
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Insurance is a another topic albeit related to credit scores. They have scores are well , you can go to "choicetrust.com" pull your C.L.U.E. score and see how you rate in the eyes of insurance companies. This is a great thread with good info from all. Stan

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