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I recently fished on a Chesapeake Style boat with common rail diesels. There were no, I repeat no fumes to inhale, and I could have a conversation in the cockpit right next to the engine box at cruise speed with no problem. I was duly impressed!!
__________________ "Land of the free, because of the Brave"
I second the electronics choice. I have sea trialed well over a dozen boats, and there is a huge difference in exhaust, noise, vibration, and a marked difference in efficiency. The other thing to consider is resale. Boats with conventional diesels are eventually going to be hard to sell against electronic. Also, who knows what the EPA might decide to do in the future.
The only downside is that they are more complicated, and finding a competent technician a bit more difficult. IMHO, that is only a temporary problem.
I know there are guys out there that get there rocks off listening to the growl of a pair of DDs, but I'll take the subtle tones of a common rail any day of the week.
If you are buying new motors you are going to wind up with electronic motors as Cat, Volvo, Cummins and now Yanmar are almost exclusively electronic on their newest models in that HP range. I imagine you can find something less popular like Iveco and some others that may still be available in mechanical, but why? The newest models are better on fuel and burn much cleaner.....The emission standards are higher than ever and the manufacturers are being forced to change.......All the diesel nay-sayers are going to have to find something else to complain about now that the fume and smoke thing is irrelevant.........
I may be wrong, but I think Iveco was one of the first common rail engines. They are involved with Cummins in some way. Possibly the blocks and they share the same common rail system.
__________________ "Land of the free, because of the Brave"
I second the electronics choice. I have sea trialed well over a dozen boats, and there is a huge difference in exhaust, noise, vibration, and a marked difference in efficiency. The other thing to consider is resale. Boats with conventional diesels are eventually going to be hard to sell against electronic. Also, who knows what the EPA might decide to do in the future.
The only downside is that they are more complicated, and finding a competent technician a bit more difficult. IMHO, that is only a temporary problem.
I know there are guys out there that get there rocks off listening to the growl of a pair of DDs, but I'll take the subtle tones of a common rail any day of the week.
What could the EPA do? Can you imagine how many boats are out there with non common rail engines. To me it would be an impossible task to police and why would they want to when the manufactures have already began to make improvements.
JMHO- Not intending to hijack the thread , go with NEWEST technology
If you were doing all of your own maintenance, there might be a benefit. Since you are having the boat built, IMO it would be in your best interest to install the most advanced mains you can budget into the project. While the longevity of older diesels is well noted, the newer diesels are sure to have the same results and if you include effeciency of newer diesels, it would be well worth the decision.
If you are buying new motors you are going to wind up with electronic motors as Cat, Volvo, Cummins and now Yanmar are almost exclusively electronic on their newest models in that HP range. I imagine you can find something less popular like Iveco and some others that may still be available in mechanical, but why? The newest models are better on fuel and burn much cleaner.....The emission standards are higher than ever and the manufacturers are being forced to change.......All the diesel nay-sayers are going to have to find something else to complain about now that the fume and smoke thing is irrelevant.........
Its a shame diesels have gone electronic but thats progress and the future. yes they are a lot cleaner and efficient, But diesels were the simple engine that would not quit. Now thet take a crap because a diode, chip or sensor doesnt cooperate in the wet hot banging engine room of most boats in the real world! but thats progress!
If you are buying new motors you are going to wind up with electronic motors as Cat, Volvo, Cummins and now Yanmar are almost exclusively electronic on their newest models in that HP range. I imagine you can find something less popular like Iveco and some others that may still be available in mechanical, but why? The newest models are better on fuel and burn much cleaner.....The emission standards are higher than ever and the manufacturers are being forced to change.......All the diesel nay-sayers are going to have to find something else to complain about now that the fume and smoke thing is irrelevant.........
Its a shame diesels have gone electronic but thats progress and the future. yes they are a lot cleaner and efficient, But diesels were the simple engine that would not quit. Now thet take a crap because a diode, chip or sensor doesnt cooperate in the wet hot banging engine room of most boats in the real world! but thats progress!
Bly,
those are good points. I don't know how many diodes I've changed on cummins 5.9 gen set circuit boards due to their own vibration and sensors on kta-50 mains. Older diesels you only had maybe two sensors, mechanical kill and a tach if it even worked. Run aways and stack fires were always fun.
But if a guy can't identify and trouble shoot while underway, it doesn't really matter which engine they choose. They may even be better off with all the sensors, safety and regulatory devices on newer diesels.
Although there are many advantages to the new common rails with electonic controls the concern is with the tech side. Older diesels like older cars were pretty easy to troubleshoot and repair if you had some basic tools and a good service manual. Now a technician needs a laptop or other proprietary electronic troubleshooting gizmos to solve a difficult electronic problem. There have been many proud new owners of electronic diesels that didn't have a good summer because nobody was smart enough to properly diagnose the problem. Similar to what happened with some outboards, the lag on the training and technical side is real. When under warranty, sooner or later they will get you a factory trained guy but for most it will be a long path to get there. The tech side will get better as will the improvements to the electronics as the manufacturers all move forward.
I second the electronics choice. I have sea trialed well over a dozen boats, and there is a huge difference in exhaust, noise, vibration, and a marked difference in efficiency. The other thing to consider is resale. Boats with conventional diesels are eventually going to be hard to sell against electronic. Also, who knows what the EPA might decide to do in the future.
The only downside is that they are more complicated, and finding a competent technician a bit more difficult. IMHO, that is only a temporary problem.
I know there are guys out there that get there rocks off listening to the growl of a pair of DDs, but I'll take the subtle tones of a common rail any day of the week.
What could the EPA do? Can you imagine how many boats are out there with non common rail engines. To me it would be an impossible task to police and why would they want to when the manufactures have already began to make improvements.
JMHO- Not intending to hijack the thread , go with NEWEST technology
How about mandatory inspections for engines that didn't have an EPA rating that was in compliance with some arbitrary threshold to be set in the future? Here in CT, we have to have emissions inspections for cars, even though 99% pass. But buses and 18 wheelers are still allowed to spew that black soot all over the place with no problem. Never underestimate the ability of the EPA to institute requirements that are irrational, bureaucracy-building, and a PITA.
Anyway, I agree with you - go with the latest technology and stay ahead of the curve.
We have 12 seaons and almost 3,000 hours on a pair of Cat 3412Es, with no ECM failures. Granted, they are not fully electronic, as they still have mechanical distributor injection pumps and injectors, but the ECMs are still hanging in there after all this time, nestled as they are between two hot turbos on each engine.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a
pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly
used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW--What a ride!!!"
-Stuart Wilde-
I may be wrong, but I think Iveco was one of the first common rail engines. They are involved with Cummins in some way. Possibly the blocks and they share the same common rail system.
Quite true. I believe that the 5.9l engines are built in the joint Cummins/Iveco "New Engine Factory" which is why the Iveco's are the "NEF" series. There are some differences, but the two makes of engine share many basic parts. I took a couple of mechanical Ivecos out of my boat and replaced them with the fully electronic engines in 2003. The mechanical version was an 'average' engine in my opinion, but the NEF370 is great. I now have 3000hrs on them and have replaced one sensor that was intermittently causing an alarm. I diagnosed this over the phone with my tech, he sent me the sensor and I replaced it. Cost approx $250. Other than that, keep the electronics dry, the fuel clean (double filters) and enjoy the amzing improvements that you get with common rail design. I won't be going back to mechanical engines after running common rail.
Thanks for all of the information. It looks like I will go with the 380 Electronic Yanmars. Tides boatworks bought the 34 gamefisherman mold and I am having them build me the first one. So when I start getting pictures I will start a new thread. It should turn out to be be a great boat.
I may be wrong, but I think Iveco was one of the first common rail engines. They are involved with Cummins in some way. Possibly the blocks and they share the same common rail system.
Quite true. I believe that the 5.9l engines are built in the joint Cummins/Iveco "New Engine Factory" which is why the Iveco's are the "NEF" series. There are some differences, but the two makes of engine share many basic parts. I took a couple of mechanical Ivecos out of my boat and replaced them with the fully electronic engines in 2003. The mechanical version was an 'average' engine in my opinion, but the NEF370 is great. I now have 3000hrs on them and have replaced one sensor that was intermittently causing an alarm. I diagnosed this over the phone with my tech, he sent me the sensor and I replaced it. Cost approx $250. Other than that, keep the electronics dry, the fuel clean (double filters) and enjoy the amzing improvements that you get with common rail design. I won't be going back to mechanical engines after running common rail.
Good to hear since I'm considering the 370 NEFs from Iveco.
__________________ "Land of the free, because of the Brave"
Thanks for all of the information. It looks like I will go with the 380 Electronic Yanmars. Tides boatworks bought the 34 gamefisherman mold and I am having them build me the first one. So when I start getting pictures I will start a new thread. It should turn out to be be a great boat.
Now this will make a GREAT thread. Be sure to post all the details and pix.
__________________ "Land of the free, because of the Brave"
Electronic Diesels vs. Non 
