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Is there anything out there similiar to Edmunds for buying a new boat? For those of you not familiar with Edmunds, it's a web site that assists you in negotiating with a dealer for a new vehicle. It basically gives you the dealers cost of a new car/truck, as well as the price of options, dealer kickback, delivery, etc. It goes further and indicates what the average price is paid for the vehicle you're looking for.
I'm starting to shop around for boats and was wondering if there exist the same sort of help for buying a new boat.
Would appreciate any feedback
Nothing I know of that gives dealer cost. "Sport Fishing" Magazine has an anual boat buying guid that gives MSRP for most manuafctures but not all.
I don't think boating compares to cars / trucks. Everyone has a car but only a few people (relativly speaking) own boats.
So if there is no Edmonds-type guide, and you know what the MSRP is for the boat with options, are there any rules of thumb for negotiating with a dealer? Is there noway of finding out what the boat cost the dealer, and considering he has to make some percentage of profit, come up with an offer that is fair to everyone?
18 %off dealers list seems to be THEIR starting point..around here
other than that you just gotta (like the ol Motown song says) "shop around"
I haven't found people to be too forthcoming about what they really paid so you may want to consider that...
Welcome and good luck!
PS I am also quite sure that some brands can discount more than others and having a good local deler is worth something hard to put a value on that unless you have had experience with them
Hey Beadhead--you need to get ahold of Boating Magazine's annual Buyer's Guide. It's mostly boat tests, but it alos has a few articles on how to go boat shopping, what to look for in a deal, and waht to watch out for. It came out a couple months ago so I don' t think you'll find it on the racks, but if you get a regular issue and callthe numbers inside, I'm sure they can tell you how to get one.
In my boat salesman days I was a dealer for about 15 different brands (I worked at a couple of huge yacht sales companies). The typical mark-up is 30%. This is for high production companies like Pro-Line, Wellcraft, etc. Bigger companies have a higher markup such as Bayliner that can go as high as 40%, and smaller companies usually have a lower markup, Jupiter or Regulator are good examples of this with a markup of around 25%. Some companies even have markups below 20%, and consist of the companies that can charge whatever the hell they want for their boats because people will buy them like Viking.
Looking back...it seems we would sell boats for a 15% profit if they just hit the lot, and for cost after they had a birthday. The profit margin would decrease from the day it hit the lot until it had a birthday, so if we sold a boat after sitting on the lot for 10 months we would probably only make 5% on it.
As far as prices changing from one region to another...this is the most absurd thing I keep hearing from people around here, and I keep asking for somebody to provide proof of this. I just want to be the first one to call the dealer to laugh at him for marking up his boats more than every other dealer in the chain. Just about eveyr manufacturer I have ever dealt with has provided their own brochures that include their own suggested retail pricing. No dealer would ever stray from this, especially considering the amount of info available to modern day buyers through the internet.
The best way to find out the exact mark-up of a certain brand is to find one advertised as one or two model year leftover or closeout. Compare the closeout price to the suggested retail price and figure out the discount. For example, I just got Chesapeake Bay Magazine in the mail and was looking through the ads in back, North Atlantic Marine Group has a leftover Fairline advertised with an asking price of $466,000, and a retail price of $614,000. How much do you want to bet that Fairlines are marked up 25%? Talk about laying your cards on the table. It is amazing how much info dealers will give to the naive public All the costs are out there, just do a little research to figure it out.
You said: As far as prices changing from one region to another...this is the most absurd thing I keep hearing from people around here, and I keep asking for somebody to provide proof of this.
Want proof? I can tell you from personal experience as I was looking at Sea Hunt boats. I went to a Sea Hunt dealer on Long Island. He wanted $19,266 for a Sea Hunt Triton 172 CC with a 115 Yamaha 4 stroke. Then he wanted $800 Freight and Prep and another $1100 for a trailer! Is this boat worth $21,166 plus tax?
I called Joel at Sea Hunt. I believe he is the manager. He recommended another dealer (out of state). He quoted me a 2002 Sea Hunt Triton 172, 2002 Yamaha 115 HP 4 stroke and Wesco aluminum trailer with the following features:
* Bimini top
* Recessed rod racks
* Raw water washdown
* Full bow rail
* Half swim platform
* 4 life vests, throw cushion & fire extinguisher
The boat rigged this way would be priced at $15,995.00 out the door. That is about $6000 cheaper.
Prices changing from one region to another? You bet!
But were these retail prices or what they were going to sell the boat for? Retail price is when you go to a dealer and they give you a brochure and a menu of options with prices next to each option. Buyers can negotiate from these retail prices.
The second dealers price was "out the door" as you say, so i doubt it was the retail price. My question is what were the retail prices for these two boats, and were the options identical?
I agree with BoatGuy,I had the same experience with guess what boat Sea Hunt guess where Long Island not to get into great detail all I can say is the price I was quoted was at least $3500 more with a lot less options then prices posted on this forum.I was thinking of going out of state but after a little more shopping I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on a Key West instead.
If I understand your question, these may have been retail prices. When we sat down and started to negotiate, this was his starting point. But I believe he intended to sell the boat at those prices. After a half-hour he graciously offered about 10% off. I still thought the price was too high he told me to walk, so I did.
To your other point, the options, the out of state dealer offered more options for the cheaper price. The local dealer did not offer the Full Bow Rail and Bimini Top.
By the way, I was a serious buyer as I purchased a boat two weeks later.
I not sure why your amazed, especially that you’re a salesman. I bought my wife a Honda last year. I went to three dealers, all who told me they could NEVER sell me the car at my price, called me unrealistic and asked me to leave. The forth took my offer. So were the first three bad dealers? I figure they knew they could sell their cars (or boats) at the their bottom line price. Others with more inventory were "motivated" to move it.
Oh yes, I did have to leave Long Island to get my price on the Honda. Maybe it's just New York dealers?
Beadhead: You started this post. Has any of this been helpful?
I've dealt with a few places who wanted to sell my timber furniture pieces "on consignment" for a 33.3% Markup...
What they do - is take the price I want for it and add 50% markup - then the markup is only one third of the total price! (i.e. 100% + 50% = 150%...
& 50%/150% = 33/3% markup!)
Soooo - are we to assume from this, that - the "markup" of 33.3% on the price offered to the consumer, is in fact a 50% markup on the dealers buy in price?
Downunder - as a generalisation we "tend" not to dicker, bargain, haggle for price (nor do we tip or give gratuitys for service....we assume we are PAYING for 1st class service in the retail price).
Does everyone in the US "shop around" and brow beat a dealer down on every purchase?
Me as an Aussie would NEVER consider "haggling" over price, I'd shop the media adverts for price on what I wanted, and go buy it from the cheapest advertised seller.
If the seller wanted to "throw in a discount" for whatever reason, i.e. "no trade in" then I'd figure I'd recieved a real good deal.
So - as a 'potential' buyer of a US boat - when I see it advertised either at boat trader online or say here on THT even in "trading dock" - should I be "factoring in" a "dickering" figure of somewhere round 1/3rd of the "list price"?
Interesting you see, because I usually just "look" at US boats, look at the asking price, convert it to Ozz pacific peso's, have a heart attack, roll my eyes and think. "these guys gotta be dreaming!" .
Have I been doing this "cost comparisons" thing all wrong?
I mean - if the REAL buying price of your boats is only 66.6% of "list price" then they do represent MUCH better value than I'd ever considered (albeit with our sorry exchange rate they are still dear but as a generalisation much better powered and equipped than our equivalent offerings).
Sooo - the Scout dealers will talk to me if i've only got 66% of the moolah they advertise they are seeking?
Hmmm, might have to reconsider these US offerings!
Exchange rates up a few cents today too, almost cracked 60c against the greenback - I figure, if I wait LONG ENOUGH and your economy continues to plummet, against ours, eventually I might actually be able to afford a US manufactured boat!
Course a lottery win would speed things along nicely!
I've come to the conclusion that comparing boat dealers to car dealers is like comparing apples to oranges. They're both round, but that's as similar as they get.
All in all, I'm leaning towards the belief that dealer service may be far more important than saving a few bucks on a new boat. Especially if you are buying from and expecting service from a dealer that is conveniently located.
Establishing a relationship with your local dealer might save hours of off-water time, headaches and travelling -- well worth the initial costs.
Thanks all for your comments!
To your other point, the options, the out of state dealer offered _more options _ for the cheaper price. The local dealer did not offer the Full Bow Rail and Bimini Top.
By the way, I was a serious buyer as I purchased a boat two weeks later.
I not sure why your amazed, especially that you’re a salesman. I bought my wife a Honda last year. I went to three dealers, all who told me they could NEVER sell me the car at my price, called me unrealistic and asked me to leave. The forth took my offer. So were the first three bad dealers? I figure they knew they could sell their cars (or boats) at the their bottom line price. Others with more inventory were "motivated" to move it.
Boatguy, I don't think I am clearly communicating what I think the problem is. You mentioned the Honda thing. Your price that you are willing to pay has nothing to do with retail pricing. Alol dealers will sell things at a different price, but if you go to every honda dealer they all start from the same price structure. A honda with X equipment costs Y in PA, while a Honda with X equipment should also cost Y in NJ. Of course one dealer might sell it for less than the other.
By the way, please don't call me a salesman in the manner I think you meant it in. If I am not mistaken any business owner is a salesman as we all try to promote our businesses, or "sell" it. I am actually in the service business as I provide a service to the yachting community. No offense take though.
You said: quote: By the way, please don't call me a salesman in the manner I think you meant it in.
I did not mean it in a derogatory manner! I actually read you comments with much interest and sorry I was misunderstood. The comment was meant to imply you would have a deeper understanding of why prices might change from one region to another, than I would being closer to the industry.
Interesting thread. I just purchased a new boat,
the boat "a hold over", 2001 model, and the motor
2002, as well as the trailer. I paid their price.
Mckee craft 16' waypoint 2001 (new)
Suziki DF70 hp 2002 Stainless prop (new)
Trailer 2002 heavy duty (new)
price $12300.00
My take was, and outside information about the dealer ? was, they priced tight and hesitate from moving off the price. I was, ok with the price, did not have to haggle (tight schedule), might have saved maybe afew dollars with more effort, but also felt that the dealer had to make some profit. At the same time, I realized what little information seemed available to really know what was reasonable and what was not. Alot of web offers on new boats say call for price. Now if the weather will just warm up so I can break in the motor.
New Boat Buying Guide? 
All the costs are out there, just do a little research to figure it out.
