Hull repainting, stick with original color? Advice needed. - The Hull Truth

RussH · 10-19-2007, 08:54 AM

I am going to repaint the faded gelcoat on my Scarab Sport using Interlux Perfection paint. The red gelcoat on my hull runs the full 30' length of the boat but is only in the center portion of the side w/ white gelcoat above and below the red. I'm not convinced I want to repaint with red. Any pros or cons to sticking with red -vs- changing the color to maybe a black? I don't want to use white because I would have to match the existing white gelcoat or else it wouldn't look right.

Russ

blmyachtsales · 10-19-2007, 09:08 AM

Make sure you use a primer sealer and changing color should not matter. You're correct about mathcing white, its tough. You are spraying it right!

silver01 · 10-19-2007, 11:09 AM

For some reason red is the fastest fading color in paint. You probably wont keep the boat long enough to see it fade, and its not on my top color list either. Also, what color is the tee-top macth it to that.

RussH · 10-19-2007, 03:19 PM

Adam- I was going to spray but after watching the instructional video's on the Interlux website I think I am going to roll and tip. I was going to do just as the video demonstrated for prep, 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of paint. The video was great and takes you step by step through the process and also tells you specifically what you will need.

The T-Top is light blue but I don't like that color for the hull sides. I'm leaning more towards black.

The only thing I could think of that would be a negative to changing the color would be if I get a deep scratch in the new color the red gelcoat would show through in the scratch.

Russ

ScarabChris · 10-19-2007, 03:37 PM

I did the same thing to my boat Russ. I repainted the blue stripe using the roll and tip method, I think I also used the Perfection. It was blue before but I made it a little darker. It was an easy prosess but preparation is key. It should take you 3 days to prep it and 30 mins to paint it. Mine came out pretty good considering it was my first painting job but it doesn't look as good as it would if it were sprayed professionally.

Also...with the roll and tip method make sure you have a helper. That will ensure you keep things moving and will avoid leaving visible areas where you start and stop.

yottyboy · 10-19-2007, 04:49 PM

Dood, spray it. I use Perfection exclusively and I cannot get good results rolling/tipping. Spray comes out sooo much better. However you apply the paint be sure the air temp is between 50 and 70. Above that it flashes off too quickly to maintain a wet edge, which is the whole key to a good finish. The red is no problem longevity-wise. Why not keep the original color scheme?
Here's your life laid out for you:
Buy or rent a tent or tarp to cover the whole job set it up being sure there's no air gaps. Deploy over boat.
Wet sand entire sides with 220 paper. Fill gouges, dings, holes and unfair areas with surfacing epoxy putty. Wet sand those areas smooth. Mask off everything. Solvent wipe entire hull. Tack rag entire hull. Solvent wipe again. Apply two coats of Epoxy Primecoat, waiting at least 24 hours before wet sanding each coat with 320 paper. Tack cloth wipe entire hull. Paint first coat of Perfection, waiting 24 hours before wet sanding with 320 paper. Tack wipe hull. Apply final coat of Perfection.

On a 30 foot hull, plan on at least a week to ten days of your time, full time. Ask yourself "how much is my time worth?" mulitply your daily rate times ten. If it's less than what Joe Bob quoted you to paint, go for it. Otherwise, pay the man.

RussH · 10-20-2007, 08:02 AM

How could prep time take that long? I have no deep scratches in the hull so I have nothing to fill. Cleaning the hull with the surface prep and laying on the first coat of primer should be able to be done in 1 day. If I have nothing to fill what should I be doing for hours to prep the hull? This is the same thing a local marina said when he quoted me $4K. He walked around the boat once and then wrote me a quote for $4K. I guess I don't understand what I'm supposed to be spending all of the time doing for prep work if there is no damage that needs to be fixed. Once I mask everything off, sand and clean the hull, what else needs to be done that will take hours and hours to prep? My thoughts are to get everything done and the first coat of primer on day one, sand and put a second primer coat on day two, sand and finish coat on day three.

I have zero experience in spray painting which is why I thought I would go with Perfection paint. Interlux claims that you cannot tell the difference between a rolled and tipped paint job -vs- a sprayed job. I have no painting experience so I am taking their word for it.

Russ

Glen E · 10-20-2007, 08:07 AM

great question russ....the answer is the smoother, flatter and more perfect the surface, the more the paint stands out from a distance. What the above posters might be talking about is using a guide coat of hi build primer to get everything perfect before the final coat goes on. A guide coat is usually striped like this so you can see where the high spots are as you use a sander planar to get the surface uniform......

then you get results like this:

Tail_Gunner · 10-20-2007, 10:23 AM

If done right the result's from perfection can be stunning. However becasue of high gloss finish any hull imperfection's will stand out like a sore thumb, something that does not happen with paints that have a flatter finish. That is why so many people including myself stress prep so highly, believe it or not you will never get it perfect and it's 95% of the paint job.

Now as to spraying be advised that unless you have a space suit with it's own air supply perfection has ingredient's that if atomized are extremely dangerous to your health and that is no exaggeration. However you can get the very same result's rolling it out.... and it is perhap's less work in that there is not as much masking, just one simple tape line.

I had considerable trouble with the tipping part of the process, there was alway's something that was not to my liking. But during the learning process i was alway's amazed how this paint would level by it's self. So i tried first rolling it out and as usual there was a great deal of stipple or bubble's, but after about 3-4 minute's i went back over the paint with a dry roller and flattened out any remaining bubbles or run's. It did leave a very fine nap on the paint but it leveled out like glass.

So far i have done two boat's with that method and i am very satisfied, one with brightside's and one with perfection, and perfection is by far the better paint worth every dime you spend. One thing however, when or if you do paint using Interlux you have to understand that your are building up to a final finish. The first two coat's are foundation's for your final finish and it could take as many as four...........

Now color really has no bearing on it at all that's very subjective, some will say black is tough to maintain but perfection is so hard it almost impossible to scratch, it would take some real dumb abuse to scratch it.....

These shot's are done with perfection rolled and rerolled

Here's some pic's of Bright Side's good paint but not as good as Perfection

As you can see the gloss is not close to Perfection more like a automotive finish and not as hard.

About the only thing that will limit you is your ability to tape line's or graphic's, that take's a real artist..

RussH · 10-20-2007, 11:05 AM

Glen- I am using Perfection because of your paint job, I could only hope to get mine to look 1/2 as good as yours. The sprayed paint
that is on the primer, is that after the 1st primer coat, the final primer coat, or both? Did you wet or dry sand the primer? The Interlux instructions says to use 220 grit paper when sanding out the primer, that seems like it would leave a lot of scratches.

TG- Let me understand, you rolled the paint on and then went back over it with another dry roller? And that looked better than tipping with a brush? Rolling sure sounds a lot easier than tipping, but how did you know when to roll it with the dry roller? The instructions say to roll
in very light coats and tip with a brush immediately after rolling. How many coats did you put on and did you have to sand between coats?
What a great job you did and the perfection paint looks a lot better than the yellow.

Did you guys paint your boats outside? Any idea where I can get those big sanding blocks I seen in the instructional video? It looked
like it was about 3' long w/ knobs on the top. Where do you find sandpaper that big?

Thanks for all of your advice.

Russ

Tail_Gunner · 10-20-2007, 12:46 PM

You understand it right, i would roll out paint for 3 minutes, then go back to where i started and flatten out any remaining bubble's or run's with a fresh and clean roller so youhave two roller's during the whole operation. I used some very cheap white foam roller's from home depot and they do not break up using any of Interlux's product. Once you get used to the idea a 10 yr old could do it, it's that simple.

Smoothing out the hull is another story, no easy answer's there.

Glen E · 10-20-2007, 12:50 PM

Russ....

find somebody's FG dock box....or some other surface to practice on....visit a few auto body shops in your area that may do high end car work...they can help you get a feel for it...and I know one body shop that I did not use, but know well, that only paints boats at 7 am in the morning when the wind is DEAD CALM...

yottyboy · 10-20-2007, 01:54 PM

>Cleaning the hull with the surface prep and laying on the first coat of primer should be able to be done in 1 day.

Oh really?

Doing a solvent wipe properly on a 30 foot hull will take a full day, and at least two gallons. By the end of the day, you'll barely be able to lift your arms. You think I'm overestimating with my prep schedule? Wait till you start sanding.

ali'i kai · 10-20-2007, 02:18 PM

Follow the product directions, take your time along with the advice of some here that have used this method and hope for good results. Worst scenario is sand and repaint. Have witnessed a few amazing roll and brush jobs including some that come factory finish.

RussH · 10-20-2007, 02:24 PM

Bill,
I didn't say you overestimated, heck how would I know? I don't know how to "properly" do anything as far as boat painting goes.
I just thought all of the time was to repair and sand nicks and scratches and since I don't have any in the hull I didn't think the prep
time would be more than a day. Keep in mind the only part I am painting is the middle portion of the sides, only about 24" wide
at the widest point narrowing down to nothing towards the bow. Once I remove the through hulls I don't have anything to paint
around except when I get to the transom.

What is involved with the solvent wipe? Don't you just apply the solvent and wipe if off like cleaning a window? Obviously there
must be more to it than that.

Any idea how much paint I will need to paint about a 120 sq. ft. area (2' x 30' x 2)?

Russ

SMEGFISH · 10-20-2007, 03:19 PM

HI Ive seen this question so many times on forums.... if your boat is transpotavble ask around your local auto guys for someone who is greatr back street sparyer. Our local guy has a nice booth knows his paints and materials and works for abot $150 a day.
As a pro he can prep and paint the boat in about 3.5 days you will get a finish far superior to hand work and you will see the money back if you ever sell.
Ive tried to paint with rollers and brushs and you never get a pro finish unless youve years off experience. Make a mistake and it shows and thats what people will pick up on..
If you can trailer the boat to someone with experience he can prepare your boat with pro tools, paint it well and whats more dry it properly... Want to spend money on paint then get it caught in a shower or watch the insects alight on your tacky paint job only to have to sand them off. Even if the weather changes a bit you can end up with a dull uninspiring finish. Search out a local auto sprayer and you will ne happy with the result

Tail_Gunner · 10-20-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

RussH - 10/20/2007 1:24 PM

Bill,
I didn't say you overestimated, heck how would I know? I don't know how to "properly" do anything as far as boat painting goes.
I just thought all of the time was to repair and sand nicks and scratches and since I don't have any in the hull I didn't think the prep
time would be more than a day. Keep in mind the only part I am painting is the middle portion of the sides, only about 24" wide
at the widest point narrowing down to nothing towards the bow. Once I remove the through hulls I don't have anything to paint
around except when I get to the transom.

What is involved with the solvent wipe? Don't you just apply the solvent and wipe if off like cleaning a window? Obviously there
must be more to it than that.

Any idea how much paint I will need to paint about a 120 sq. ft. area (2' x 30' x 2)?

Russ

This is quite easy to lay out. Now i know pro painter's may have a different opinion but it's there lively hood were talking about and that is very serious business.

1. Wash the area your going to paint with a dish soap and a pad used for metal pot's and pan's. dont go crazy just clean it off. 1 hour

2. Take a product such as Xylene and start a solvent wipe, do not wipe in circle's but in one straight path, rotate your cloth your removing wax, silicone and god know's what type of contaminates are there over the year's......Acetone will not do the job it flashe's to quickly or dry's......You need a very strong solvent Styrene something of that nature.
It is very important to do this first, if you do not you will just spread around contaminate's causing your new paint to fail and peel off. 1 hour

3.Take a 200 grit sand paper and start sanding your gel-coat, your not trying to take it down any futher than breaking off the outer surface, actuall your just sluffing off the old and creating a surface for the primer to adhere to. If you go to a home depot they will have sponge block's that are 3" wide by 6-8" long (sheetrock sanding sponge's), wrap your sand paper around it this will prevent any hard gouge's or line's from occuring and get you a flat level cut. usually about 4-8 hours

Now it's time to take a close look at any irregularities in the hull, dent's gouge's and so fourth. fill them in with a marine bondo let them dry and take that sponge and sand them flat, take your time here if you cut it wrong you can alway's go back and redo it. Once you have done this to your satisfaction it's time to prime, but be aware.....your probably gonna be tired of sanding and let some small stuff slide if you do you will regret it later..... unkown hour's take your time

Use interlux prime-kote, this i would suggest you spray on, it's a very hard product when dry and you want a flat and smooth as possible, rolling just doesnt work and it's not perfection completely different......You can apply with a very cheap HPLV from any hardware store.......two coat's .........and use no more than 180 to cut or smooth it out...i prefer 220.....time who know's it's up to you

Another solvent bath

a good wipe down with a tack cloth, maybe two or three time's this just take's minute's

Now it's time to paint, using a 5% flowing solution 2316 to your paint start your rolling, it will become apparent how much you can roll out without getting run's very quickly and if she does run just roll it up and out and paint it out on new surface. After you have been rolling for about 3 minute's go back to where you started and start flattening any bubbling or run's use very litte pressure and take you time you will get a very smooth nap on the paint this will level like glass in about 20 minute's, once youv'e did this you cannot go back ten minute's later and do it again it will not work. One shot and move on. 24 to 36 hours after your have painted go back and very lightly scuff the surface just enough to break the sheen ( 320 grit), your not trying to get it perfect yet your just creating a foundation of color. After three coat's it's time to sand out any imperfection's tread very lightly here you DO NOT want to break thourgh your paint Perfection is a film and it is easy get smooth any imperfection's under it's surface will be apparent and now you will know why peep's stress prep so hard..... So if you do break the surface (down to bare hull or primer) you going to have to redo it again.........Now it's that big of deal by now you have a lot of hour's in with the sanding and laying down the paint and a good ideal of how it work's

Once all of this is done you ready for your finish coat, here i would reduce with 2316 by 10% you want the paint to flow as flat as possible, if you dont get the result's you want on the final coat jus keep going with another......you will now understand how important prep is and the more you do prior to paint the less you will end up doing later and the happier you will be.

This was all done i a garage in 65-75 degree weather, it took about two week's of off and on again work maybe.

Sprayer:80.00
Xylene 2 gals 30.00
Prime-kote 1 qt 30.00
3 quarts Perfection 180.00
Foam roller's 20.00
Sandpaper 50.00
15.00 tape

About 400.00 and a few hour's a night for 2 week's......and a burbon or two...

Glen E · 10-20-2007, 05:30 PM

TG....thanks for taking the time...you add alot of value here......

RussH · 10-20-2007, 05:46 PM

Great step by step TG, I have printed your instructions. Great point about the primer coat I think I could manage to spray that just fine.

I would rather have a professional do the work but the least expensive guy I had quote me was $2200 and I just can't see spending that kind of money. One guy quoted me over $4000 which was completely unreasonable in my opinion. The actual area I have to paint isn't very big and the hull is in great shape, I couldn't see anything that would need to be filled before priming. Some light surface scratches maybe but won't the primer fill these in?

Russ

Tail_Gunner · 10-20-2007, 06:15 PM

Thing's are a bit slow around here so i just shot one from the hip Glen, i dont believe i've ever type that much before she's a bit sloppy forgive me. It is a very labor intensive job but if you give yourself room or time it's ok. I missed a few thing's such a wipe down with solvent and a tack job between every coat you lay and that's a big deal. As to the primer or perfection the stuff is incredibly thin, neither will cover imperfection's, but for small stuff Interlux make's a fairing putty which work's well. Good luck.

As to cost time is money and very subjective..