Scout 187 vs. Key West 186 CC help me close the deal

[Aerocraft67]

I'm very much ready to buy one of these boats. I've trialled them both. I'm leaning toward the Key West, but the Scout keeps nagging at me. The Key West is a 2008, and Scout a 2007, both brand new, similarly equipped.

The Key West is $2,000 cheaper, roughly 7% less than the Scout. The price difference is magnified by the value difference in model year. A comparable 2008 Scout would be another $2,000 or so. The Scout is 140 lb. lighter. That's nearly 4% of my family-wagon towing capacity, nearly maxed out by this rig, so every pound counts. Scout has insulated fishbox in the bow, Key West bow storage is uninsulated (I think). The Scout cushions are nicer, but the Key West jumpseats are removable, which is nice. One problem is the aft storage in the Key West is accessible only by pulling out those seats. The Key West has a cooler pilot seat, so the Scout has a nicer pilot seat, but sans cooler (obviously I could stick one under the seat or use the space for other stowage). Key West has raw water washdown, which is kind of a neutral, because it's another thing to maintain and potentially fail. The Key West has the high bow rail, whereas the Scout is low--not sure which trade-off is more favorable for me. Scout had digital gauges, Key West analog, no big deal. Pull-up cleats on the Key West. The Scout dealer is more attentive, but the Key West dealer is closer. I'm comfortable doing business with either, but I am a first-time tidal boat buyer, so the extra hand-holding is worth considering. Overall the Scout had nicer fittings, cushions, cupholders, and looks (i.e., fit and finish). But I'll be keeping the boat in a boatyard, so the nice trimmings may pose somewhat of a liability. I'm buying the boat to use, not show off.

The sea trials were in similar conditions, 2-3' waves in otherwise nice weather mid/upper Chesapeake Bay. Both boats could handle that at full throttle--not comfortably, of course. Both dealers told me I wouldn't normally go out in those conditions, but that the boats could take it. Both dealers also discouraged trim tabs. I could keep the boats on plane at 3500 rpm, but I had to throttle down off plane to take bigger waves in head seas. The wave period was longer than the boat each time, but not by much--I could almost stay on the wave tops in following seas. The Scout seemed more solid, but the Key West had a bimini that may have been producing a more rattly feel (Scout was sans bimini). The Scout seemed to have stronger hole shot. The Key West bow seemed to ride higher. The throttle on the Scout was smoother. Both got me wet only once or twice, but even that's probably a result of amateur seamanship rather than performance. Both drifted well, but I didn't anchor either. I didn't do a good job of tracking speed, but the conditions didn't really warrant it anyway. The differences were basically subtle, at least to this novice.

So the Scout is a nicer boat, but is it worth 15% more (or 8% more for a year older)? Anybody want to weigh in on a fair price? I've smoked out the Scout dealer and I just don't think he's going any lower. The Key West is a less mature negotiation, but the dealer seems to be offering a no-nonsense, fair deal. The Scout is harder to appraise because it needs several options added to compare with the Key West, which is pretty loaded as a base boat. Directly comparable boats are hard to come buy, but there are a bunch of 2007 Sea Hunts on Boattrader in the low $20k's, and they come with fewer standard features than the Key West, so maybe $25k is a reasonable price to pay for the 2008 Key West (with bimini and bow cushion, CGP). This also seems like a reasonable markup from the last NADA entry. Too much?

I've been shopping for this boat since February. I'm surprised I couldn't find a used boat that fits my needs--I guess I'm pickier than I thought. I'm nervous about buying new because I don't want to be the last guy to buy an expensive boat before the market stagnates, never mind that this is an entry-level rig. I'm driving my wife insane. So, if there's anything you care to offer to inform and finalize the decision, do it for her if not me. Of course I've scoured everything on THT about these boats. I'd also like to get out for the fall rockfish season in it. It's time.

[SmokinBlues]

Just DO IT............pull the trigger and don't look back or second guess your decision. Both are very nice boats.

My dock partner has the KW 186 w/ F150 ( I think this motor is too much weight for the hull, though). The boat has been sitting on a lift on the ICW for two years and I am very surprised at how well the hardware has held up w/ no rusting. I know two years isn't very long, but with constant exposure many boats will show hardware rust within the first year. My friends 07 Scout SF222 is showing signs within the first 8 months in the same setting. My current McKee as well as my previous Triton started within the first year. This info is personal observation only and is not meant as a boat quality rating.

If you are going to hold on to the boat for several years, I wouldn't worry much about year model. But I would work the Scout deal because of the left-over status. Don't under estimate the cost of the "add-ons", they will add up quickly. If you like the Scout better, see if the dealer will sell the older boat with same equipment and at same price of KW. If you like the KW better, go for it.

Regardless, don't let them talk you out of trim tabs. Are they necessary? No. Will you enjoy your boat MUCH more with trim tabs and will it perform better? YES.

If you tow vehicle is at the limit with either boat and you must tow very far, you might need to also budget for another tow vehicle.

Good luck.

[A Few Dollars]

You can't go wrong with either. My neighbor and I both have Key West and they have been excellent boats. I now have a Scout. Fit and finish is better. The Scout has more features. Pick the one that suits your needs and budget. I like the Center livewell and removable rear seats of the KW.

[bmkshort]

Don't forget the Key West has factory hydraulic steering. Nice feature. I looked at both too and thougt the Scout had better fit and finish but the KW had better layout in my opinion.

[scout172]

What kind and size motor were on these boats? I presently own a Scout 172 but would like to bump up to the next size in the future. I also like the two boats you are asking about. I like the quality of the Scout but I like the layout of the Key West better. I am intrested in what the performance would be like on these boats with a Yamaha F150. I do not think you could go wrong with either on. Good luck.

[janda]

I owned the Key West 186cc for one boating season before selling it and buying a 23' cc. I must say that the boat was great. I was truely happy with ride and quality along with the features. I had a Yamaha 115 4-stroke, with people on the boat I wish I had more, but I always want more. I did not, nor need trim tabs, larger boat, yes. The only thing I remember not liking was I had a hard time grabbing the cleats and pulling up, fingers to big? I am very positive about the boat, but admitt I know nothing of the Scout.

[gumshoe]

Buy whichever one is cheaper - both good boats, but within 2 years you'll have a truck and be ready to have something in the 22 foot range whether you like it or not.

When the urge to upsize happens, don't bother fighting it...this happens to all of us.

[Aerocraft67]

scout172 - 10/4/2007 7:09 AM

What kind and size motor were on these boats? I presently own a Scout 172 but would like to bump up to the next size in the future. I also like the two boats you are asking about. I like the quality of the Scout but I like the layout of the Key West better. I am intrested in what the performance would be like on these boats with a Yamaha F150. I do not think you could go wrong with either on. Good luck.

Both boats have the Yamaha 115 four stroke. My sense is that they would be a little stern-heavy with the 150, and I'm not sure how much performance beyond a little more top speed you'd get, at the expense of weight, fuel consumption, and higher price. I've seen the dual console version of the Key West with the 150, and there's a performance report available from Yamaha for that rig. But that boat's a bit heavier than the CC. Maybe just go to the next boat size up?

[Aerocraft67]

gumshoe - 10/4/2007 7:46 AM

Buy whichever one is cheaper - both good boats, but within 2 years you'll have a truck and be ready to have something in the 22 foot range whether you like it or not.

When the urge to upsize happens, don't bother fighting it...this happens to all of us.

I hear you. For the same cash outlay, I could have a late model used 21 footer. But I wouldn't be able to tow it, so I'd have to keep it at a boatel or in the water, which incurs more maintenance and cost, and it would consume more fuel. I also keep the option to tow it elsewhere, even freshwater. I could get the truck, but that obviously has its own costs.

Conventional wisdom here is that you need a 21 footer to ply the bay confidently, but you can go smaller by picking days and locations. Since this is my first tidal-class boat, I figured I'd let the 2-3 footitus set in when the time comes, rather than head it off from the onset, and minimize my other costs in the meantime. If I have to stay in the river or cancel a trip from time to time or be less comfortable on the water, I'll have to live with that. I can also fish skinner water when I want, or tow a skier--seems like a nice do-it-all size, if not the perfect mid-bay Chesapeake boat.

[gf]

Did you check out the McKee Craft 184? It's another likely competitor to those 2 boats.

Can't go wrong with either of these 2, however. I would probably go with the '08 Key West and ask the dealer to sweeten the pot with electronics or accessories. I can't imagine he's selling too many boats with the season starting to wind down.

[Hitman]

I have a like NEW 2007 186 Sea Hunt CC Yamaha F115 Wesco aluminum trailer single only used in freshwater will sell for $19k. I have clean title in hand, want a 24 Sea Hunt F250. 602 570 8380 George

[fishinnutt]

Chec out the Pioneer 197 Sportfish. Bigger boat, less than a Scout, about the same price as a Key West, nephew to both companies. just my .02 cents.

[Aerocraft67]

The Mckee and Pioneer are worthy contenders but they're a bit too big for me. My tow capacity is 3500 lb., so my hull weight cutoff is 1700 lb., preferably less. Hitman's Sea Hunt sounds nice but it's awfully far away. Not a big deal, but the transom on the Sea Hunt seems to take up more cockpit space than the Key West, which subsequently takes more space than the Scout. I think the Scout pilot seat is further aft than the others, but it doesn't have the center-aft livewell, so the cockpit space seems about the same as the Key West.

[troutpioneer]

true, that pioneer 197 is big for a 20 and not surpisingly is alot bigger than the scout and kew west 18~'s. off course its also about $10k more.

I think you will be very happy with a scout or a key west. you must realize though that whichever boat you get, you will be selling as well. After you buy this boat, you will soon be shopping for a bigger tow vehicle that can tow a bigger boat. you will do this under the guise (to your wife) that you just need more room in a vehicle. dont tell her its for future boat growth. 2 foot-itus will happen and it will happen pretty fast. I bought a new 17.5 in 2005 then a new 20' in 2007. Now im trying to decide if I should go to a 22-23 or just hop up to a 26. Good luck to ya and enjoy your new boat.

[awscwi]

I bought the 185 Scout in 04. I still have the boat and use it Striper fishing 5~6 times a month.

I have had no problems with the boat in 320 hours. Fish box in the front is a really nice feature for me.

I am sure the F115 is fine, but there is no substitute for horsepower. See sig line

[Aerocraft67]

Forgot to mention the cockpit bolsters on the Key West. Seems like a generous standard feature for a boat this size.

[sprint72]

I bought a 04 18.5 Scout Dorado at the end of last summer, so this was my first full summer with the boat. I had the same problem, I did not want to go out and have to buy a new truck just because I purchased a boat. I tow it with a Toyota Sienna and it is no problem. The boat has the Yamaha F115, which I thought was under powered when I first got it. But after reading how you are supposed to run these Yamaha's it is a good match for the boat. What I mean by that is I used to think that running at 5000 rpm's or above was not a good idea, but from what I read that is what the engine like's best.
So overall I am happy with the Scout.

[RSMBEAR]

I have the 186 KW and would be happy to answer any questions for you. I looked hard at the Scout before I bought the KW and agree with the rest of the posters that the Scout fit and finish are better. I also agree that the McKee and the Pioneer are better boats.

I also had a towing problem which kept me from getting the Pioneer or the McKee. My Max is 4500 pounds and I was concerned about towing (especially the Pioneer). I would not recommend you buy the 186 if your tow weight is 3500 lbs. Go with a somewhat smaller lighter boat and make your life easier and safer.

I have the 150 on mine but agree the 115 would do a nice job. You might look at the zuke 140 which would also be a good fit.

As far as the seats having to be removed to get into the rear storeage area don't worry because the seats are not much fun to sit in anyway. You are right there with the motor and it is not a great place to be. Even though I use mine as a family boat the two rear seats almost never get used and I just leave them out most of the time.

Hope this helps.

[Aerocraft67]

RSMBEAR - 10/5/2007 10:56 AM

I have the 186 KW and would be happy to answer any questions for you. I looked hard at the Scout before I bought the KW and agree with the rest of the posters that the Scout fit and finish are better. I also agree that the McKee and the Pioneer are better boats.

I also had a towing problem which kept me from getting the Pioneer or the McKee. My Max is 4500 pounds and I was concerned about towing (especially the Pioneer). I would not recommend you buy the 186 if your tow weight is 3500 lbs. Go with a somewhat smaller lighter boat and make your life easier and safer.

I have the 150 on mine but agree the 115 would do a nice job. You might look at the zuke 140 which would also be a good fit.

As far as the seats having to be removed to get into the rear storeage area don't worry because the seats are not much fun to sit in anyway. You are right there with the motor and it is not a great place to be. Even though I use mine as a family boat the two rear seats almost never get used and I just leave them out most of the time.

Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot for the post. I have agonized quite a bit about the towing. The problem is the quest for seaworthiness and towing safety/durability work against each other for a fixed towing capacity. The Scout boat is 1500, motor 400, trailer maybe 600, full tank of fuel 300, plus 200 more in gear gets you to 3000 which is 86% of my 3,500 capacity. The Key West brings that up to 90%. Other assumptions for fuel and gear are closer to 200, which brings things down to 80% capacity.

The wisdom is all over the place on this but these figures seems reasonable. On the one hand I'm towing with a 4-cyl turbo wagon, but on the other it's rated to tow 4,000 outside of the U.S., which provides a little more comfort zone. Most of the towing would be within the boatyard for launch/retrieve, plus occasional trips to the dealer. I do like the capabilty to occasionally tow further afield, which is why I'm trying to stay within prudent limits to keep that option open and practical.

My manual says I need trailer brakes to tow more than 1,000. After I insisted on them, the Key West dealer recommends surge brakes and the Scout dealer electric disc brakes, but I'm still not sure which is best for me, even after scouring threads about them (electric costs more than 2x surge in my quotes). Any ideas?

The tongue weight is a bit skimpy at 165, but that will accommodate more than 5% of the total trailered weight up to 3,300, which is above the minimum tongue weight recommended for boats, and all I need in total rig weight. GVWR seems to accommodate anything I need--it's about 1,000 more than curb weight of the car. My manual reduces tow capacity recommendations for gradients higher than 10%, and doesn't recommend towing up more than 15% grade. I don't think boat ramps are steeper than that. But at 13% gradient I'm limited to 2220 lb, so it's something to consider. I guess this gets to the issue people bring up about slipping on a steep wet ramp, but I've also heard that problem is overblown. Limitations on total capacity based on the cooling system start with gradients at 6%.

Not a huge difference in weight between the boats but the 140 lb savings with the Scout is attractive. It's the main reason I looked at the Scout in the first place. Going down to a 17'/90hp seems like too much sacrifice in seaworthiness and risks more severe twofootitus that might bring on. Besides, some of the 17' hulls are 1700 lb anyway. But if I need a reality check on my tow vehicle and load I'm ready to hear it. The gradient limitation may be the biggest issue. I've seen ramp specs between 7% and 15%, but it's hard to estimate a ramp's slope by eyeballing it. I guess I could call and ask.

I'm making this complicated enough already and the boats come with the 115 so the enhancement of the 150 isn't an issue for me. The primary objective will be fishing, but family use is an important capability. The aft seats aren't ideal, but I suppose you don't have many options in an 18', and most of them seem to be designed this way. I do like the removability of the Key West seats. If anything I'm worried about the durability of all the cushions. The dealers don't seem too keen on full boat covers and prefer console covers, but this leaves everything exposed. I had considered a May-Craft for this reason, but it didn't seem as family friendly, so I traded off the other way. Still not sure how to handle the cover issue.

I told you this was getting out of hand. Thanks for the posts and keep them coming if you got them.

[bmcmillanab92]

Trout just hop to the 26!!!!!!I bought my 197 sf in July and am in need of a 26 myself,23 is nice price but you know the 26 will be calling soon!!!!Problem is,when does the 28,29,31 come?????lol