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Random Quote: A home on land; You save up for one half of your life, only to find out once you get one that it's in the wrong neighborhood!
Here is my predicament, would like to have some advice from others that might have experienced problems with the marine industry and what the best way to work it out is.
Top Builder in Virginia
Timeline:
March 24, 2003
Discussed in detail the product I desired and confirmed with the son of the business they could build it to my expectations. Put $800 down payment on a Visa. Asked when they might have the top done by. The son replied the end of April.
April 14, 2003
Talked to the son the week before to see when I would be able to bring my boat in, he said you could bring it by on Monday. I brought the boat by there first thing in the morning, thinking I was dropping it off for them to work on and have it ready by the end of April as he mentioned earlier. He replied, you can’t leave that here, we are just going to take measurements and a template to get it started.
May 2, 2003
Called business to check status of my top and left message to please return my call and got no reply.
May 9, 2003
Called numerous times throughout the week, left messages for the son to please call back and he never did. I finally spoke with father on Friday May 9th and asked him when I was going to have my top completed, and he asked me when his son told me I was going to have it done. I replied the end of April, he said that there is no way his son would have told me that and that I would be more like the end of May before it was done.
May 30, 2003
Waited until the end of May and called to see when I would be able to get my boat in, left messages and never heard back from them.
June 5, 2003
Called and left a message basically pleading for them to let me know when I could get my boat in and have the top completed. The son finally called me back and explained how busy they were and said I could drop the boat off late the following week.
June 12, 2003
Dropped my boat off that afternoon, talked to the son about the top height and wanted to double check his notes because it had been so long, I wanted to make sure he had everything straight that we agreed to. Saw my name on his board, 2nd in line for a top being manufactured. There were one or two other boats in the yard that they looked to be finishing up. Once again, I asked when do you think you will have it done. He replied that he hoped it would be finished by the following Friday, June 20th.
June 20th, 2003
I stopped by to see how far along the top was, boat didn’t look any different than when I dropped it off back on the 12th. Asked him about it and he said we started your top, and pointed out the tack welded pc of aluminum that was only the outer ring for the top, nothing else.
June 24, 2003
Stopped by again to check status of top, boat still had no obvious sings of work being done on it. Talked to the son briefly, told him I really needed it to be done this Friday, he said they would work on it and couldn’t confirm it would be finished. He pointed out the structure they had complete which consisted of an outer ring hoop aft structure below this that enables them to have a grab rail and structure for rod holders. The structure also had the 4 out of 6 rods holders and backing structure welded to it. This section of the top was still hanging on the same rack that it was on before. The following structure was missing from the pc he had shown me: (4)-vertical/diagonal type legs, horizontal cross members on top (bows), radar pad, outrigger pads, antenna mounting pads, curtain track. I'd estimate it was 15% complete if that. I've worked as a structural engineer in a Naval Shipyard for 10 years, so I'm pretty confindent is my estimate. The son pointed out a pc of plastic that he said was my top, I didn’t see it. They were working on top for World Class catamarans at the time I stopped by that was not present when I originally dropped the boat off.
I got home from the business, called them back and spoke to the father telling him that if they couldn’t have the boat ready by Friday I was going to pick it up and take them to court for my deposit back. The father told me that I should just come and get my money and pick up the boat. I asked if they were going to be open that evening for me to pick it up and he replied yes. Approximately 4 minutes later, the son called me back in rage and said that he would rather go to court and have a judge tell him to give my money back than give it to me as his father told me they would do. The son said that he had too much time into the top to refund my money and preceded to tell me how angry he was that I threatened him with a suit. I told the son to put himself in my shoes and that I have been extremely patient with them for the last 3 months and I have had enough. I also told him that if I would had known it would have been July before I had a top on my boat I would have gone someplace else even though I think they do the best work. He told me that he puts himself in all his customer’s shoes and I was basically being very uncool for doing this and that he tries to get the locals in first. He also mentioned that a guy who ordered a top at the boat show in Feb just got his top two weeks ago. I asked him if it was a 21’ Parker and he replied yes. I told him I know the owner of that boat. (see note below) I asked him when could you get the top done, give me a date. He said they were very busy that they had two tops they were delivering on Weds June 25 to boat manufacturer they build for. He replied that he was going to try to get it done by this Friday but after this call he didn’t know when it would be. I replied, I just want a top for my boat, that’s all I’m asking for……
His tone of voice was very threatening and I really do not trust this guy to work on my boat any longer after this conversation and his irate attitude and he would still not commit to a date of any sort to have a finished product for me. He made it clear that this threat from me of a law suit has now prolonged the delivery date for my top.
June 25th, 2003
Spoke with my attorney, she says wait till Friday June 27 before doing anything as far as a suit goes.
***should I wait till the 27th or go pick up the boat now??????
My summer is basically shot now with my schedule and knowing how much work I need to put into the boat to get everything rerigged. My guess is that he would have had the top done by 4th of July weekend or the one after that.
Note:
The owner of the 21 Parker is a co-worker of mine and had similar delays as I am experiencing as well as a damaged hull from the business. When his brother went over to check on the status of the top, he noticed that company had put their boat on a triple axle trailer that was much to large for the boat and it was actually resting on one of the aluminum cross members. Apparently they put a large deep gash in the bottom of the boat, but would not claim responsibility for doing so and would not pay for the repair.
I really doubt that this situation involves a father working for his son. It's probably the classic case of father giving screw-up son a job just so he doesn't have to actually support him anymore. It was encouraging to hear that the father said you could come get your boat, and a refund, no questions asked. I would immediately take him up on that. You have been very patient w/ them and given more than enough chances for delivery of the product as promised. Try to avoid any confrontations w/ the son, chalk this up to experience and go find another top builder.
I try to do business with things involving future delivery with an absolute minimum down payment. The most reputable businesses generally only need a minimum to ensure that there is a genuine interest by the consumer. In several cases I have had businesses practically insisting that I only give the minimum. In your case a reasonable down payment should have been $100 tops.
With only a minumum down payment involved you keep a lot more options open. I would be skeptical of a business that insisted on a large down payment for future work.
Call visa and see if they have a procedure to question things. I had a friend who got nailed that way, they charged the dealer back for the job after the fact.
quote:Originally posted by sublime:
His son does all of the aluminum work and does the best work around this area.
OK, but he's obviously not doing it for you...
If I don't get some respect as a customer from a business, that business doesn't get any of my $$$. Simple as that. It sounds to me like you are being blown off for more high profile customers. Get your money and go somewhere else. At least that is what I would do.
Here is what you do, go get your boat. Then call visa and tell them that you put a deposit for a top, and you never received the top. They will instantly put the $800 back on your credit card and the investigate the matter. Once they look into it and see you did not get your top they will keep the money on the card they put back for you.
I went through this with a deposit on a boat. It will work in your favor. Always put deposits on a credit card, best way to protect yourself.
In my mind you had your chance to change your mind way back in step #1 when you knew the son lied about the completition date. At this time, however, since the quality of the work seems good, I would just chalk it up to experience and work on them to get the top as soon as possible without further confrontations. In your case just dealing with the father would be best for all concerned. It seems you have run into a builder who got in over his head in committments, especially if there is a boat manufacturer to whom he made promises.
As far as Visa is concerned, you must dispute the charge in writing - a phone call won't do. There is also a time limitation from when the charge appeared on your bill to dispute the charge, hopefully you're within the window. Visa will immediately credit the account until the dispute is resolved. With all your ammo, you won't have trouble with the dispute. State your points in a unemotional letter, just the facts. What a shame, sorry for you.
The builder does not need the bad reputation. I would set a date and expect it to be met or their would be a lawsuit. I think you have been more than reasonable.
I can guess from the story who the players are. Best top builder in this area for sure - did a fantastic job on our top.
Business has grown fast, and they are moving (have moved) to larger facility on adjacent property for increased electrical capacity (i.e. more welding machines).
Top contract for manufacturer started last year.
I would talk with the father, make a working peace with the son, and try to get the best top they can give you. He won't do poor work.
Isn't the "service" industry great?
I am a buyer for an export company and I am amazed EVERY day how hard it is to GIVE people money!
Sublime, you sound like a patient man, at least more patient than I would be in your situation. Since you have let it go on this long, you might as well let them build your top, especially since you think it will be of good quality. Refunds and lawsuits will only drag things out even longer. You will still have to find another top builder! Then, what happens if they do the same thing to you, which is highly possible in the marine industry!
You now have one of your own "horror" stories like the rest of us. Believe me, anyone who owns a boat has at least one horror story!
If you get your boat back and still want a top I would suggest going to Dandy Heaven Props Top and Tower. I dont think you are talking about them. I had great service from them. Please email me the top maker you are talking about. I wont post the name anywhere just want it for future reference. formula233@comcast.net
dropped by the shop last night with the intent of picking it up if they hadn't done anything to it. I noticed the boat had been moved inside and they were working on it. I turned around and left.....didn't say anything or even get out of my truck. Thanks for the CC advice, I appreciate the responses. Maybe I'll get some photos posted once everything is back together.
After years of trying to get work done on my boat, I've come to the conclusion that if you want it done by early summer, start the process in November. This is especially true of shops with a good rep. I got to the point where I learned to do my own fiberglass work because of this. I once waited from April to september to get a small repair done. Good Luck with your top. I hope everything works out.
I need good advice...... 
