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Old 07-07-2003, 02:09 PM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

I ran across a 1969 25' John Allmand cuddy today for what initially seemed like a fair price on a boat that looks to have gobs of potential. I was wondering if anyone has any experience w/ this boat and could tell me about it?

The hull itself looks to be in good condition but the interior needs to be gutted. It has an OMC engine and outdrive but is reported as not running. Trailer is in fair/poor condition. I'm not going to spend the $$ on a survey since I will rip it apart anyway.

I'm basically wondering if this hull is a worthwhile building platform? Are there any particular issues I need to be aware of? I suspect it will be a great riding boat. The pics I got show a deadrise at the bow of approx. 45 degrees and close to 24 at the stern.

I'm just looking at this as a project. Something to build over the next few years.





Thanks for any info you guys can provide.

Brian

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~bmille4/sirreel/index.html
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Old 07-07-2003, 02:52 PM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

I grew up boating on a 1970 23' Allmand Citation. My father still has it. (I will post a picture of it when I take one after fishing with him on the weekend of July 19-20th) It is a solid boat. She has been repowered 3 or 4 times and emronned twice. He is considering one of the small diesels in her next. The beam of the boat tapers at the stern making her one of the most fuel efficent 23' boats ever made. I am not sure how simalar the 23 and 26 hulls are but it has always been my impression that Allmands were very well built boats. (My father was told that Bertram sold Allmand the mold for the 23. We are not sure of the credability of that statement though.) The only down-sides of the boat are that the tapered transom makes for less cockpit and I personally thought that my 231 Pro-line was a nicer riding boat.

Call the guys at http://www.allmandboats.com/ for more info.Also there is a guy at Jabins in Annpolis that has one (a 26') that has been completely redone.


[This message was edited by B-Faithful on 07-07-03 at 05:08 PM.]
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Old 07-07-2003, 03:28 PM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

Did someone mention Allmand?

The 26 was a much better hull than the 23, in that it was more rigid. My 23' tends to flex and pound a bit when I try to run fast in the rough stuff, but otherwise, it's a tank. The bottom on mine is nearly 3/4" thick near the transom, and about 3/8" thick on the hull sides. Just pound the side away from any supports and you'll see

The 26' models were about 10' beam. This one appears to be a stretched out 23' model.

Believe it or not, Allmands usually have no-wood stringer design. They are solid glass, and act like longitudinal box beams. I've got some info on the 23' series, but nothing on the bigger ones. They usually don't hold too much fuel. Mine had custom made electropolished stainless steel gunnel tanks when I got it, so it holds 72 gallons.

If you're willing to do a project, this may be a good one. It won't be too costly, unless you decide to convert to outboard power.

If you'd like some articles on the 23' models I scanned in, e-mail me at surfdancerii@aol.com
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Old 07-07-2003, 05:28 PM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

Thanks for the info guys. The only problem is I'm in MD, and the boat is in FL (so I guess I didn't really "run" across it. )

But for $750....

Tidester, I'm not sure how I would handle the power for it. I would probably try to at least get the old engine/outdrive running to see how I liked that setup (never had an I/O and the space at the transom sacrificed for the engine box concerns me).

My build plan would be to make this into my offshore rig, but also try to keep the cost "within reason". My first thought was twin straight drive, carburated inboards, but that conversion may be over my head.

I'll keep you posted on what I decided to do.

Brian

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Old 07-07-2003, 06:49 PM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

Brian,

You've got mail!

You must be looking at the same one I saw (at Chapmans in Stuart).

The motor box may be more of an asset than problem on a boat this size. That 25' boat will have a pretty big cockpit. Mine is partially blocked by the hard fiberglass of the cabin roof / flybridge floor, and I make do just fine. The motor boxes on those old Allmands make great fishing platforms. A buddy of mine has a Pompanette fighting chair up on his! I just use mine plain for seating. It's great to sit down when rigging ballyhoo in choppy water, and makes a dandy rigging table too! It's only a step back and a step sideways to go around it, and it's high enough so it's definitely not any sort of a trip hazard.

The only drawback to these boats is there is no place to put in a livewell. Mine has a rectangular box over the transom, but it's reserved for iced bally, trash, chum, etc. Too square and too much damaging slosh for a baitwell. I've seen a few converted JA's with OB's and brackets, and they were able to put in livewells, more fuel, etc. Talk about a low rider! With twin 200's on a bracket and all that weight aft the stern really squats. Must be tough to hold a straight line or see over the bow when trolling.

I didn't check out that boat. What power / drive does it have? Seabird23 is selling off his 351 and pre alpha drive from his rig. I saw them in the Boat Trader online recently. He was asking $500 for the works. If my drive wasn't in good shape, or if I needed a motor for rebuild, I'd probably go for it. That power would probably push that boat very nicely, and it shouldn't take much to get it reliable and smooth. Just fuel for the project list
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Old 07-07-2003, 07:56 PM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

Not to avoid the 26' subject but I just got off the phone with my father and he ran off shore today w/ his 23 allmand. He was bragging to me that he ran a hair over 28 nautical miles offshore (with another boat) trolled all day and steamed in. He left the dock around 6:00 am and returned around 5:30 and only burned 38 gallons . That is how fuel efficent his boat is. The power he has is a 4.0 250ci straight 6 that produces 165 hp. He cruises at approx 20 knots at 3200 rpms and 18 knots at 3000rpms. The engine is mated to an alpha 1. The hull is very quick to plane and has very little bow rise. The 26 appears to have a much deeper v therefore may not be as efficent. However, should it have the tapered transom like 23, it may impress you. I/O's are much more effiecent than inboards. Boating Magazine did an article about 2 years ago comparing two larger Sea Rays w/ different power (v-drive inboard vs. stern drive) but the same hull and concluded that stern drives much faster and efficent. Of course all the downsides to i/os are well doumented here.


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Old 07-07-2003, 09:31 PM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

I had the identical boat you are looking at.I repowered it with a 454 300hp bravo 1 mercruiser.This boat has an incredible smooth and dry ride,but as with most deep V's it will rock.The hull plate rated max power at 420horses.As Tidester said fuel capacity is on the light side but there is plenty of room in the floor to add.I looked into it and with minimal amount of work you could easily put a 150 gallon tank in.These boats are thick,lots of glass.The cockpit is self bailing and is high enough were water does not come in even with the heaviest of loads.I had a 30 gal livewell placed right behind the drivers side captains chair,no problem.Hope this helps.
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Old 07-08-2003, 10:25 AM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

go with a rebuilt diesel and you will have a beautiful boat cheap.
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Old 07-09-2003, 07:22 AM
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Default 1969 25' John Allmand?

Thanks again for the info Tidester. That is some good reading! You are correct about it being the one at Chapman's.

Since the trailer is questionable at best I would want to have the boat shipped to MD? Can any of you tell me who I should contact and approx. how much it may cost. If the transportation costs are more than the boat, it's not worth it to me.

I guess I could fly to FL, rent a full size pickup, replace/repack the bearings and pull it back to MD. But by the time I did that, it would probably cost me just as much as having it shipped.

Any advice?

Brian

BTW, it was originally advertised at $1000 and the guy dropped to $750 w/out me even asking so he might even go lower....

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