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First, let me say thanks to those who posted honest and valid answers to my question "What is the major disadvantage to buying a boat at a boat show?"
I have been involved with bulletin boards long enough to know that there are many juvenile jack--- who will post something nasty no matter who says what. Generally these are the people who should listening more and talking less.
There are many reasons to avoid buying a boat at a boat show. There are also some reason why you might want to buy at a boat show.
Opinions will vary as to the worst reason not to buy. In my humble (and apparently ignorant) opinion the worst reason not to buy at a boat show is that you will never see two dealers in a major boat show selling the same brand of boat. Boat companies are not stupid. They are not going to let two of their dealers into the same boat show. It would only serve to drive down the profits for both dealers. While a boat show offers you an excellent opportunity to shop one brand against another, it affords you no opportunity to shop two dealers of the same brand against one another. The entire boat show atmosphere is designed to get you to make an "impulse" buy. Boat shows also make it very tempting to buy without having driven in or ridden in the boat you are considering. (buying a boat you have never been in is very, very dumb but it happens more than you can imagine). If you must succumb to "boat show fever", make the salesman put a written stipulation on the buy order that your deposit is refundable if the "on the water" demo isn't to your liking. If the dealer pressures you to sign a finance contract before the demo ride, run like hell. Think about it, a demo ride affords the dealer the opportunity to prove everything he has told you about the boat is true. If he balks for any reason on a demo ride you should head another direction.
The truth is, the pricing you see on boats at a show is available for several weeks following the show. I can tell you from experience that we always sold many more boats the two weeks after the show than during.
Something a few of you may not know is that dealers are usually given a discount on a certain number of boats per year so that these boats can be taken into the boat show and discounted substantially. The boat companies know their dealers will in competition with all the other boat mfg. They do this to ensure their dealers can be competitive. This is the reason boats can be bought slightly cheaper at boat shows. (sometimes, supply and demand dictates everything) All the hype about buying before the end of the show is bull. But there is a limited number of boats available at the additional discount. (keep in mind not all boat companies do this) In many cases boats can be purchased for weeks and even months after the shows for the exact same price. Boat companies can hit dealers with mid year increases, and the boat shows held during the summer don't generally see the same discounts as the winter shows. I am sure most of you already knew all this but for those of you who didn't, I hope it helped.
The more you know about boats, the less they will cost you.
quote:Originally posted by TheBoatGuy:
First, let me say thanks to those who posted honest and valid answers to my question "What is the major disadvantage to buying a boat at a boat show?"
...The truth is, the pricing you see on boats at a show is available for several weeks following the show. I can tell you from experience that we always sold many more boats the two weeks after the show than during...
Worked for me. I went to the fall 2001 Annapolis show right about the time of 9/11. Dealers and manufacturers were in a panic as the bottom dropped out of the stock market. Ended up placing an order for my Parker in late Oct for delivery in March 2002. There were some deep discounts as a result of the panic, and I was happy to help them clear some stock.
BTW, an interesting thing about the timeframe immediately following 9/11, Parker had some of their best sales--at least that is what the dealer told me. Newspapers were full of stories of people cashing in their stock funds and buying big toys. Apparently a significant percentage of the American public saw the towers come down with those 6-digit salaried people jumping out of the building and they decided that life was too short to hoard it all for the future--the future may end tomorrow.
Anyway, I got a great deal 1 mo. after the boat show and I love every minute I spend on it.
There is nothing wrong in finding out how "the otherside thinks and feels" I worked a booth for a number of years at various Boat shows, did not sell a thing, only gave information about a area to generate additional intrest in the area, Of course I did a lot of listening and always found the conversations really intresting in the areas the the booth people and Dealers hung out in for thier Smoke and coffee breaks lunch etc. I would hazard the opinion that many of has no clue how the average or above average boater is treated at these shows, and goes away happy which shows that the dealers have done a good job in pulling to wool over your eyes and making you believe what they tell you. Time and time I have seen someone at a Boat Display that has thier mind so made up that XYZ is the best boat in the worldand the best boat for them they end up buying that one roght then yhinking they got a really good deal and yes it wasa good deal but only a average one as they hadalready teegraphed that they realy really wanted that and only that one
has not a clue
Excuse me, "juvenile jack" should listen more and talk less. From what I can see you would benefit from your own advice, I sincerly doubt that you ever listen but you certinly can talk. Some may even classify you as a bull$hitter. In my opinion an educated person can figure out what a boat is worth with the help of other people here on the forum. And trying to create a market for your book where there isnt any just wont work.
Location: Quebec, Canada and Pirates Cove, OBX, NC
Posts: 17,813
The truth about boat shows....
quote: Quote from TheBoatGuy
I have been involved with bulletin boards long enough to know that there are many juvenile jack--- who will post something nasty no matter who says what. Generally these are the people who should listening more and talking less. Sorry but you have just lost another person who was giving you more time . . . I don't appreciate you attempt to use our ideas to write your book . . . bye
yes, I'm "Miss-Be-Haven" just a little fish in the THT pond
I like your style, BoatGuy. Keep doing what you are doing. The smart ones will sift the gems of knowledge from your experience and will become wise . Me, I got a good deal on my 4th boat, my Abaco. There are those that harp on Scout is overpriced and give ridiculously high prices. I know better and have said as much. And I am willing to keep learning. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.
Katmandude... A Smart man learns from his own mistakes; a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
OK a little true story bout buyin a boat from a boatshow!. Not me but someone I know well.
Flys over 1000 miles after organising time off work to buy a new boat he has his heart set on at 'the boatshow'.
Does the due diligence thing while at the show and compares it to every other offering and convinces self it's the one for him.
Signs the deal at show - pays the cheque for whole amount there n then and flies home, boat to be delivered land freight the same week, which it was.
All well n good so far.
Guy knows all the specs etc, he's the stickler for details.
Boat is a package built for and sold under the YAMAHA brand name (Yamaha southwind). It's about 40% - 50% dearer than all the equivalent brands but it has all the bells n whistles and a great reputation in the boating press etc.
So it arrives and new owner and family go fishing.
Interestingly it goes 5 knots faster than specs on first days run out to fishng grounds - "bewdy / bonus" thinks new owner!....not questioning himself why HIS boat should go faster than printed specs .
While fishing - eventually - water comes above floor...and wife panics...Owner pulls anchor & heads for shore, back to the launch ramp - keeps boat circling while yelling instructions to wife to reverse car n trailer into water - wifes never had to reverse a trailer before in her life. Much screaing and cursing and unnecessary angst.
Eventally, boat is in the process of being driven onto the trailer - but in fact luckliy enough - sinks...onto the trailer!.
Slowly slowly boat is inched up the ramp with bungs out draining many hundreds of gallons of water all the way...
Wife swears, vowes and declares neither she nor his kids are ever getting in ANY boat with him ever again! (pretty good first day out all in all).
Tows now drained boat around to local boat dealer...who happens to sell Yama OB's and is a Yama agent - he just doesnt sell these particular hulls.
An inspection takes place on the trailer...which reveals the underside of hull has holes punched thru it, from the radiused corners of the box section chassis inside between floor and hull...punching their way thru the outer skin.
Photo's are taken - and phone calls to selling dealer begin.
1st liability is denied - claims made by selling dealer that the new owner "must have abused the hull!"
Local dealer says no way - Hulls defective and if no satisfaction recieved photo's of failed hull will be published for the whole world to see.
Now selling dealer says that IF new owner pays land freight to send boat back to selling dealer, and IF selling dealer finds a hull fault - THEN maybe a warranty claim will be entertained.
So new owner ponys up a couple grand $ to freight boat back (all the while still making monthly payments while investigations continue on!).
3 months later still without boat and making monthly payments and no satisfactory answer, new onwer FLYS back to see selling dealer at own cost.
New owner demands there n then to have a hole drilled in outside skin of boat and to compare hull thickness to specified 6 mm layup matrix in published specifications.
Holesaw used to cut hole in hull - glass thickness found to be only 1.8 mm (1/16th inch) compared to 6MM (1/4inch) publicised hull matrix specification.
Turns out hull was made in a hurry to be ready in time for boatshow - and someone forgot to install the woven rovings alltogether...entire hull is choppergun CSM blowboat...weighing about 1/3rd what it should..
Now the mystery extra 5 knots are explained as are the holes punched thru hull.
Owner DEMANDS new hull - and finally gets new hull... which arrives land freight with his old console laying inside as well as his old OB laying inside and he has to rebuild his "new boat" himself...but the company DID give him a couple Yamaha hats and Biros for his 'inconvenience'.
(remebering it's now 6 months since he's been paying off a new boat and only ever had one ride!
You would think that would be the end of the story but not so...
Company told owner in writing about the mixup during hull manufacture and that old hull was condemned, written off and sawn in half and disposed of in landfill.
Owner trys to re license new hull with transport dept...to get his original same hull numbers etc etc - but "no can do" - the department computer isnt set up to re-issue the same numbers, or refund the annual license payment - it's never happened before - they are all confused, so to make things easier - he buys a NEW license and gets new numbers etc...
Now he has one hull and 2 boat current license registrations!!!.
Trouty goes 1000 miles north and has a fish for a week with boat owner in new hull and truthfully it's a lovelly boat now all the bugs are fixed finally some 6 months after it was first bought.
Trouty comes home and thinks - hey this would make a neat boat to guide saltwater fly tours out of - might have to look into buying one of these - maybe a second hand one since the new ones are so dear (read overpriced).
While getting a service done at local dealer (many hundreds of miles away at a local coastal village) from original selling dealer in Perth, I notice a nice near newish looking boat which looks just like the one I fished out of a couple weeks before, same colours size etc..
Dealer is rebuilding it, new fuel tanks, new console, new OB and a different (non standard) new trailer underneath it.
Dealer notices troutys interest - and shows him all over boat - hoping to sell same to trouty.
Trouty notces some reinfiorcing glass work being done inside hull - near fuel tanks etc...woven rovings being glassed in wherever arms length could reach under the floor from the console & hatch openings, and is assured they are just "beefing up" the area to take the weight of the bigger fuel tank etc...
Anyway - I take a menatl note of the license registration number on the hull - and when I get home - ring the original owner - to check whether this is in fact his 'written off' hull, I've just been offered for sale!!!!
Sure enough - the hull license numbers MATCH the license which OWner still has in his posession....
He is pretty ropeable that a hull which almost sank killing him and his family is now being re sold to the public....with patch up repairs to only areas easily accessable....despite the fact theres no woven rovings in much of the hull and it's already failed once and been written off!!!!
So - trouty and owner publish factual story on various forms of the boating/fishing internet downunder!!!.
Owner rings consumer protection - marine transport licensing authorities - the police etc..
Every govt department is horrified this could happen - Police threaten Yamaha dealer, and dealership now offering vessel for resale, that because original owner still has valid leagl license papers and because neither dealer has a reciept for the hull - that they stand to be charged with theft - fraud and a host of other charges.
Things get nasty - dealers ducking and diving for cover, threatening to sue each other and so on.
Needless to say - trouty and original owner are now blacklisted as Yamaha public enemys number one downunder with wanted poster look alike images in all yamaha dealerships back rooms.....do not sell to these two men under any circumstances...
This is my tale of why I would never buy any yamaha product ever as long as I live - Yamaha and their company and products all stink to high heaven IMHO, the people behind selling them are likely as not, all crooks in my experience!
I support Mercury product - bugger Yamaha.
I'd never buy anything made in a hurry for the boatshow.
Trouty, now that man can type, and I mean well.
Trouty you are a trip man with an eye for our detailed viewing pleasure…
Boat Guy, ease up a bit. Test-drive the Loofah, it exfoliates. Lighten up just a bit and you will fit right in. Knowledge is learned from on hand experience and that of others but information from that knowledge is requested not displayed with vigor.
99.9% of these guys already know what your trying to say and have owned many a boat purchased before during and after a show. Studied well and are very well versed on the how-2’s and the why-knots. Work with'em not against'em and you will be one of the guys..
Even then you are subject to error and trust me if done incorrectly you will be plundered. Enjoy the fun cause that's what this is knowledge, education and FUN!
Outside of that you should be wetting a hook!
Your snow will melt and your boat will float once again...Down here we float year round.
Trouty, I hope your buddy didn't fall for the "built the boat in a hurry for the boat show" CRAP. Probably how they build all their boats. His boat was the ONLY p-o-s they have ever built? I doubt it.
In the spirit of the truth, I'd like to post a few facts here.
Boat builders do not have control of local shows. The do not 'let' the dealers participate, and further it is not against their best interest if two dealers handling their product show up at the same show. It happens now and then. Fact is that a show is usually put on by a promoter in cooperation with the local dealers group. The amount of control the dealers retain over the show varies with regard to who can participate, and who cannot.
Next fact. Boat shows have become terribly expensive to participate in from the dealer's position. Many I know would like to pull out and host their own open house during show season. It would cut their overhead and exand their offering compared to what they can afford to show at the 'show'.
Another fact. There is a difference between a credit application, a buyer's agreement, and a finance agreement. You will seldom see the finance agreement at the show. That is a legal agreement between the buyer and the financial institution you have agreed to do business with. The federal truth in lending act allows for a three day right of rescission to the buyer in any transaction in which money is borrowed to make a purchase. Therefore, even if you did sign a finance agreement at a show, you have three days to back out, by federal law.
The buyer's agreement is a contract between the buyer and the seller. Refunds are negotiable and should be settled before the contract is signed. I've never refused a refund but there are some cases where I should have. Some buyers can be just as unfair as some sellers.
A credit application is nothing more than a request for approval to borrow money. There is no purchase agreement in the credit application.
The period of time that a boat show price is good varies greatly with the dealer who offers the price. More and more today, the manufacturers are offering true rebates or discounts during show season. Some of them require to see a contract signed during the show for the discount to be valid. They are particular about these agreements and will void the discount if all paperwork is not in order. Dealers have to be very careful about this process or they risk not getting the discount they have figured in to the pricing.
There are some rebates that are being offered for show season, which is roughly the period of time spanning December through March. Some offers are valid for a contract entered into during this time frame without regard to a 'show'.
Indeed most reputable dealers will give you a period of time after the show to consider the deal at show prices, just remember, in some cases this is not possible.
Another fact. I have never seen what I would consider 'substantial' discounts given to the dealer from the manufacturer for the purpose of keeping them competitive during show season. Now substantial could be a matter of interpretation. To me substantial is double digits. What is available are single digits, on the low end of the scale, and that varies from something at one builder, to nothing at the next. You can't depend on it either as a buyer or a seller.
My last fact, and this is more a matter of opinion rather than proven fact. The main reason not to buy at a show is if you walk into the show not knowing what you really want, or what would really suit your needs. A show atmosphere is a poor place to make that kind of descission. Another reason along the same lines is that a typical sales rep is rushed during a show trying to make as many contacts as possible. He doesn't have the time to help you make the right choice. For the guy who knows what he wants, and has narrowed the options down to a few similar boats, a show is a great place to walk back and forth comparing the short list.
Bottom line. If you are uncomfortable with either the product or the person you are dealing with, walk away. You do not have to buy at the show, or anytime for that matter.
Tom Marlowe, sales at Summerville Marine. Past Master Tech.
I appreciate all the positive feedback. Yes, I probably should listen more and talk less but that really isn't my style. There is no question I should have entered this board a with a little more humility as many of you guys are far more educated about boats than the average person. As far as my book goes, obviously most of the people on this forum have no need for it, so the continued accusations that I am trying to sell something(which doesn't even exist at this point) are ridiculous. I showed up on this forum with the intent of trying to help people who have had to work for a living instead getting to fish and work with boats for 20 years. I strongly resent being personally attacked for no reason. If you know all there is to know about boats that is fine. I for one have a great deal more to learn about boats which, is why I was so happy to find this forum. I know very little about saltwater fishing and look forward to learning all that I can from the people on this board.
As far as my dislike for boat dealers and salesman, that comes purely from having spent the last 8 months looking at 26' center console boats. I actually started "the book" 3 years ago and lost interest. It wasn't until dealer after dealer tried to hand me my butt on a center console that I decided there were a great many people who were being substantially overcharged for their boats. I have no problem with a dealer making a profit. In fact, if you get your head handed to you by a dealer that is your fault. He is doing what he is supposed to do, make the most profit he can. My hope is to someday finish this damn book and maybe help someone somwhere from being charged $30,000 to much for a center console boat.
I am not much on backing down but you guys are far sharper than most of the people I ever dealt with on boats. I will make you a deal, you guys quit attacking me and I will quit trying to sound like a boatguy know-it-all. Those of you who take the time to get to know me will find that end the end I am just a guy who loves boats and being on the water.
The more you know about boats, the less they will cost you.
Welcome to the forum from me too. But I have to agree with Boatdood, in fact, he saved me from typing everything he typed (thank you). I will add one more thing that he touched on - many boat shows have several dealers of the same brand, especially with larger boats. This is especially true of "international shows" like Lauderdale and Miami. Dealers come in from all over the place for those shows, as far away as CA.
As far as dealers buying boats for less that are slated for shows...that is news to me. It did not happen at any of the dealerships I worked for. The deals to buy inventory boats are usually struck months in advance of boat shows, and who knows if the boats will even be around when the show comes to town.
The rebates boatdood talked about are becoming more common and may be a reason why to buy at a show. But these rebates are not show specific. They could announce a rebate at any time.
Hey Boat Guy,
Please take a few minutes to read Boatdood's post. Notice the factual approach to his statements, and the manner in which he conveys his thoughts. Plus, his statements actually have worthwhile content and useful information we all can learn from!
You, on the other hand, in all of your posts combined, have offered 1/4 the information in Boatdood's post. But at least you present it in an arrogant, pompous way.
Lastly, every post of yours mentions this book that doesn't exist, which suggests to me that you have a hidden agenda. Again, meaningless rambling that has no worth.
When you actually bring something worthwhile to the table, you will be appreciated by all.
The boatdood is knowledgable indeed. I live in the Dallas area and here only one dealer per show is allowed to sell a particular brand of boat at a show. I am headed to Miami next month and that will be my first trip to an "International" boat show. It would be very beneficial to the customer if more than one dealer per brand were allowed into the shows. It would allow you to compare apples to apples pricing which can be very time consuming otherwise. The boatdood is also correct that rebates are becoming the norm in the boat business rather than giving discounts to the dealers on a certain number of boats. My buddy who was shopping for the bass boat two days ago was never told by the dealer at the boat show that a rebate existed. He found out by checking the company's web site. Again, I am truly impressed with the knoweledge some of you guys have about the boat business. Once again, I apologize if I came across as a know it all initially. No one, especially me, knows everything about the boat business.
Enough talk about boats...someone teach an ex-bass guide and tourny guy about saltwater fishing off the Florida panhandle. Now there is a subject where my knowledge is truly lacking.....
Boatdood, keep up the good work....I would buy a boat from you....
The more you know about boats, the less they will cost you.
The truth about boat shows.... 
THT sponsor
. Me, I got a good deal on my 4th boat, my Abaco. There are those that harp on Scout is overpriced and give ridiculously high prices. I know better and have said as much. And I am willing to keep learning. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see. 
Welcome to the forum. 
