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Old 06-21-2007, 12:17 PM
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Default West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

West Marine has recently begun selling its own private label DFI oil. It is considerably less expensive than the Mercury or Quiksilver brand DFI oil that I have been using in my 135 Optimax. I recently reviewed the labels on the back of the West Marine oil and the Quiksilver oil, and interestingly, the West Marine oil states that it is NMMA certified, but the Quiksilver does not. Does anybody know who manufacturers the DFI oil for West Marine?
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Buy Opti from your dealer out of a drum.... Last year I paid $18 per gal. I think he said this year it was $22 or $24 per gal. My bet is that is less than west marine stuff that you dont know for sure if it meets manufactuer's spec.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

I bought opti oil off ebay for $15/ gal. It came in the sealed 2.5 gallon containers from merc. Now that I think about it, they were probably hot, but that's not for me to decide.
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

The West Marine label says that it meets all manufacturer specs. The Mercury and Quiksilver labels do not have any specs or certifications listed. Like I said above, at least the West Marine brand is NMMA certified. I was a little surprised to see that although some of Mercury's oils are NMMA certified, the DFI/Optimax oil is not.

The West Marine DFI oil is currently on sale for $17.99 a gallon. The Mercury/Quiksilver DFI oil is $29.99 per gallon at every store I've checked. The only place I've seen the 2.5 gallon Mercury DFI oil is West Marine where it sells for $63.99, which is $25.59 per gallon.

I'm not trying to be a cheapskate here. I was just a little surprised that the Mercury/Quiksilver DFI oil is not NMMA certified, but the West Marine oil is. It would seem that the higher priced Mercury oils would have some kind of certification, but they don't have any. I want the best oil for my boat, and I don't care a lot about the price, as long as it is fairly reasonable. I only use a couple of gallons a year. $10 or $20 extra per year is no big deal.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Its not the NMMA spec's which are easy to achive, the main difference in oil is the additives they put in them for cleaner burning and to help with carbon build up, thats why they cost a bit more. You have a very expensive item and it can be very expensive to fix for a couple bucksa gal., not that West's oil is bad, its just the others from the Manu are better. Example, the Fichet's that get ragged on probably wouldn't have nearly the problems if they had the newer XD oil's to work with. DFI motors oil completely different than carbed motors and need a better oil that will handle higher heat. Try the .net or someplace that carries bulk
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Mercury does not have a refinery and someone makes their oil. I am sure it doesn't take too much for a chemical engineer to duplicate a manufacturers spec. Tohatsu did a test on DFI oils and many met the quivalency including most semi synthetic oils ie Pennzoil. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if the savings is significant. The label says it meets Mercury DFI specifications which is basically a no ash semi synthetic formula. Because it is direct injected it has to handle high heat and have a low ash requirement.
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

I havent gone through 2 case of oil in over 265 hours. How much are you really going to save with a 15o for piece of mind.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:17 PM
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Default RE: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

West Marines oil and all of their boating chemicals, cleaners and waxes are made by Starbrite. The answer to your question is yes, their oils are very good.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Save a little now...Spend a LOT later.

Since you stated that money isn't the issue, go with the MFG's stuff.

As far as NMMA cert goes, anyone willing to write them a check gets "certified"...

Only you can decide which is the best way to go. No one here is going to offer up to pay for your repair bills based on their suggestions.

Good luck!
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Speaking of oil, my Optimax manual says to use "Quicksilver Premium Plus" oil. It is a 1999 model. I guess this was before they made the Optimax DFI stuff.

So it is worth it to start using the DFI stuff? The Premium Plus says it is good for EFI/DFI engines. It is Quicksilver. So why is the "Optimax DFI" stuff almost $10 a gallon more?

The engine has about 350 hours on it and has always used Quicksilver Premium Plus oil. I just bought 2 more gallons of the stuff, and the boat came with a full oil tank (2.5 gallons) and an extra 1/2 gallon in a container.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Quote:
Lazy_Iguana - 6/21/2007 8:59 PM

Speaking of oil, my Optimax manual says to use "Quicksilver Premium Plus" oil. It is a 1999 model. I guess this was before they made the Optimax DFI stuff.

So it is worth it to start using the DFI stuff? The Premium Plus says it is good for EFI/DFI engines. It is Quicksilver. So why is the "Optimax DFI" stuff almost $10 a gallon more?

The engine has about 350 hours on it and has always used Quicksilver Premium Plus oil. I just bought 2 more gallons of the stuff, and the boat came with a full oil tank (2.5 gallons) and an extra 1/2 gallon in a container.
In your case the plus was the best they had at the time, see my above I think they have gotten better on the oil and maybe some Opti's wouldn't have some problems with the better oil, maybe call Merc.
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Old 06-22-2007, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Quote:
TheSkipper - 6/21/2007 3:25 PM

The West Marine label says that it meets all manufacturer specs. The Mercury and Quiksilver labels do not have any specs or certifications listed. Like I said above, at least the West Marine brand is NMMA certified. I was a little surprised to see that although some of Mercury's oils are NMMA certified, the DFI/Optimax oil is not.

The West Marine DFI oil is currently on sale for $17.99 a gallon. The Mercury/Quiksilver DFI oil is $29.99 per gallon at every store I've checked. The only place I've seen the 2.5 gallon Mercury DFI oil is West Marine where it sells for $63.99, which is $25.59 per gallon.

I'm not trying to be a cheapskate here. I was just a little surprised that the Mercury/Quiksilver DFI oil is not NMMA certified, but the West Marine oil is. It would seem that the higher priced Mercury oils would have some kind of certification, but they don't have any. I want the best oil for my boat, and I don't care a lot about the price, as long as it is fairly reasonable. I only use a couple of gallons a year. $10 or $20 extra per year is no big deal.
I don't think that Mercury expects owners/users of non-Optimax motors to use Mercury/Quiksilver DFI oil which is specially formulated for the Optimax, I presume. Thus they aren't marketing their DFI oil for use by non-Optimax owners/users and so NMMA certification is really not necessary to the sale of their DFI oil. Their DFI oil is "certified" for use on an Optimax and making sure that owners of Optimaxes have the right oil to use is really all they care about. That's the market and NMMA certification is basically irrelevant.

I would not use the Mercury DFI oil in my Evinrude Fichts except in an absolute emergency because I am not confident that its formulation is necessarily good for the Fichts given the different way that Fichts and Optimaxes work. Likewise, if I had an Optimax I would not use Evinrude's XD-50 or XD-100 except in an emergency because I am not confident that its formulation is good for an Optimax.

Now, on the other hand, Mercury's general 2-stroke oil is something that they might expect the owners/users of non-Mercury conventional 2-stroke outboards to use since they are less picky about oil and so NMMA certfication is more important for general acceptance.

West Marine, like Mercury with respect to its general 2-stroke oil, would like to sell their DFI oil to EVERYBODY owning/using a DFI motor and so the NMMA industry certification is important to the marketing of their product.
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Quote:
B-Man - 6/21/2007 8:17 PM

West Marines oil and all of their boating chemicals, cleaners and waxes are made by Starbrite. The answer to your question is yes, their oils are very good.
Well if Starbrite makes all of West Marines oil check out the results of the oil compared to YamaLube, Evinrude, & Penzoil.

http://www.starbrite.com/whatsnew/Panel%20Coker%20Test%20(TC-W3)StarbriteComplete.pdf
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

So when is the last time anyone here had an oil related failure? They are extremely rare and usually the result of a mechanucal failure. This in itself is evidence that all the oils are of high quality.
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Back when I had a 2 stroke (NOT DFI..just a regular old carbed, 50:1 oil burning Yamaha C115) I regularly used West Marine oil. I preferred it over Yamalube and Quicksilver--it smoked less. At that time, the West Marine guys told me it was made by Chevron.
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

The West Marine oil bottles are blue, and they look just like the Chevron bottles, only with different labels.

I do not buy into Mercury's marketing hype with regard to the DFI oil. If Mercury's DFI oil is truly superior, why don't they offer some type of testing or certification to back up their claim?

It's my understanding that the Tohatsu TLDI motors use the same technology as the Optimax motors. Tohatsu's website indicates that there are numerous acceptable oils for use in the TLDI motors: http://www.tohatsu.com/tech_info/oil_gas.html

To date I have only used the Mercury Optimax/DFI oil in my motor, but that's because it was readily available, and I was getting it for $19.99 per gallon. I will most likely continue to use the Mercury oil, but I don't think using the West Marine brand or any other DFI oil would cause any problems.

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Old 06-22-2007, 11:27 AM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

I use West Marine regular grade oil in both my carbureted Yamaha 130 & my Honda FL400R ATV which I drive as hard as it will go & no failures on either. Funny thing is top ends on the ATV seem to last longer than with really expensive dirt bike oil. There is a website dedicated to oil you can check out. I think it is called: bobistheoilguy.com
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

Guys let me use this analogy, all DFI oils are going to be fine Merc to Rudes are all OK, its like spagetti sause its all red but some ingredients are different, like the amount of Garlic, not a big deal but the manufactures I'm sure did alot of testing. Failures are usually from carbon and or scuffing and you could never tell if it really was the oil.
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

There are only like 2 different refineries that make TCWIII oil of any type. The biggest difference between the brands is the types of detergents used in the oils. As a former Marine service manager, the only problems I ever saw, oil related were the lack of oil being used, by either an oil pump failure, or someone running without oil at all. If you switch between brands, be very carefull and try to get all the oil out of the reservior prior to putting in the new brand. Some detergents will coagulate when in contact with each other, clogging the oil system. You will have no problem running the West Marine oil in your DFI engine. I actually believe there is a guarantee on the bottle.
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Old 06-22-2007, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: West Marine Brand DFI Two Stroke Oil

If different brands coagulate then they don't meet TCWII specs. So mixing should not be an issue. I'm not so sure the statement about 2 refineries is correct either. If you look at the NMMA certification list there are too many oil companies listed that would exceed 2 refineries. Also there is more than just detergents in TCWIII. Every time an additive package is changed the oil has to be recertified.
From NMMA:
A new complete TC-W3 approval program shall be necessary for a
formulation involving any of the following:
Group IV or V base stocks (or mixtures of the two)
Naphthenic base stock 25
New or chemically altered additive component
Use of different molecular weight PIB
Existing additives and/or other components, including base stock
used at concentrations outside the range allowed by the Readacross protocol

Any change in a candidate oil formulation shall necessitate a new OTDA
registration number and complete testing of the new oil, except where approved
solvent substitution or readacross guidelines are met.

NMMA TC-W3 Compatibility Test
7.9.5 Evidence of inhomogeneity at the beginning or end of the 48 hour period and/or a
change in the physical appearance of the sample from beginning to end of the 48 hour period will be cause for failing the compatibility test.

http://www.nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/

Starbrite oils are registered under Kinpak.

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