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I have a single outboard 22' center console now, but want to move up to something in the 25-26' range, center console or cuddy cabin. Does anyone have thoughts on the offshore reliability and get you home factor between a new Volvo D4-260 or Yanmar 315 versus new twin gas outboards. Both would have a single fuel source, but would the reduced fire factor and life of a single diesel outweigh the redundency of twin outboards? Thanks for all advice and thoughts.
Paul
With all the moaning about the price of gas this should be a no brainer. Try this for comparisson. I have a little14' Maritime Skiff powered by a 50hp. I also have a 32' single diesel, 240hp, which is run at 1600 to 1800 most of the time.
The big boat costs LESS per hour to run than the itty bitty one. No, the big boat does not cruise at 25 to 30kts. So what! The little one can't carry 10 people with ease, can't carry any more than 4 without burning alot more gas. The little one could fit into the cockpit of the big one with 6' to spare.
Take care of a diesel. Use mechanic repellant i.e. change filters & oil regularly. Use it frequently & it will outlast the lifespan of 3 outboard lifespans.
In this long standing debate, the single diesel has a well proven track record. The best part of a straight inboard is the center weight factor along with creating a clean cockpit / transom.
Bighamlin - this debate has been going on for a long time with strong advocates on both sides-do a search.
For my part I used to have a 26' express single diesel with a pair of 75 gal fuel tanks. One tank had given me trouble for a long time so I would have to routinely switch the supply to the 'good' tank until I replace the anti siphon valve on the 'bad' tank. The redundancy of the twin tanks gave me some measure of security. The diesel never gave me any trouble and as Doug said keep the filters clean, know your fuel sources and learn the basics of how the diesel operates and you will feel very comfortable with the engine and reap the benefits of fuel economy and ride. Good luck.
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1967 BW Nauset w/ 88SPL Johnson
Either engine choice will likely get you home. The trick will be getting the boat docked! Single screw boats, in close quarters, have always been a challenge to me.
All the motors out there these days and power choices are reliable.
But when you start talking 'offshore', as reliable as most engines are, you KNOW anything can fail at any time. 2 is better than 1 when one doesn't start 50 miles from shore. All motors can fail, electronically, electrically and mechanically.
I think to fully appreciate twins, you have to have a motor fail away from shore or just sit there when a great forecast turned into a Small Craft Advisory and take a real good look around (knowing seatow won't be coming to get you) and ask yourself 'what now' if the motor does not start to get you home . The guys who say no problem with 1 motor, have just been lucky. I used to run 1 motor out there also, I knew I was 'getting away with something and lucky'. We were climbing mountains with a single I/O one day zigzagging to climb them and unable to even plane the boat, took a long time and I asked myself the 'question' that day. I felt my luck was running out, I switched to twins.
Forgetting offshore for a minute...I almost lost a boat in the Inlet when a motor shut down on me. In 60 seconds I was on the bow with a crab net trying to hold the boat off the rocks. It happens fast when things go wrong.
I don't concern myself with fuel burn so much. There are things you can do and ways to setup and power the boat to get the best mileage you can out of what you have, beginning with the cleanliness of the hull to minimize drag. If a boat uses too much gas to bear, then the boat is too big for you. You can even move the boat to an area closer to where you do the most boating to save a ton of fuel. It is cheaper to drive the car to the boat than drive the boat to the primary boating/fishing grounds.
No one will dispute deisel burn less fuel. But you have to factor in the cost to buy one in the first place. I see this cost omitted when talking fuel numbers. Overall cost has to be considered when powering a boat. My twin outboard powered boat is cheaper overall than the cost of the same hull sister hull/twin inboard version.
The fact (not really debate) is two motors are better than one for getting you home from offshore. With 2, you will get home. With one, maybe not. If you tank up with bad gas, you don't have to worry about getting home because you won't get very far from the fuel dock in the first place if you tank up with bad gas. Always carry onboard spare filters. If you do not have twin tanks, at a minimum at least have twin pickups on that single tank (a must with outboards anyway). Make the motors as indenpendent as possible to guarantee one cannot take out the other for electronics problems should it happen, it is common to share data cables from 1 ECM and tie together at the dash to use the fancy gauges/displays. Better to wire them up independently 100% and pay the few bucks to have both ECM's programmed as the starb motor by the dealer so they both 'think' they are the only motor on the boat, then you have a true backup motor that cannot be effected by anything that happens with the other motor.
If you go offshore only twice a year, do you really need or want twins.....only you can answer this. Offshore is not even the same thing depending on where you live. Here in the northeast, we have to travel a ways and often you look around out there and there is not help in sight. Some places I am sure you have to compete for a place to fish, where twins may not be totally necessary.
On this site there are many people from many different places, offering personal opinions and personal experiences based on boating from their specific area over the years. No cut and dry, clear cut answers. There is more than one right way to do things and more than one best way to go for setting up boats.
So, the standard correct answer to your original question is....it depends, you will have to decide what is best for you.
Two weeks ago we were 35 miles offshore and the fuel pump failed on one of my F250's. We came back in at 30 mph on the other one. Had we been in my old boat with a single it would have made for a long night.
When the "all depend" issues are evaluated, unless someone uses the boat for hundreds of hours each year, it is hard to support the diesel engine in a 26 foot boat. The average pleasure boater does 50 hours annually, so unless someone does 3 or 4 times that in a year, forget it. Also, no one has mentioned that the diesel in a 26 foot boat will probably have a I/O drive, and those things are not reliable, or at least much less reliable than an outboard lower end.
Go twins, and since from your comments it seems that reliability is a major concern to you, Yamaha should be at the top of your list.
Thanks for all the quick response. One thing to add, I have alot of experience using simple mechanical diesels as stationary power units. With no computers or complicated things, about the only thing that can go wrong is the fuel or water pump going completly bad, even then, you get at least 5-10 thousand hours follwoing proper PM before a rebuild on the motor.
On the boat, I have completly isolated batteries, spare fuel filters, props & hub parts, etc, and always go above and beyond when it comes to PM. I don't know about these newer high rpm fancy diesels though. I will only use the boat a few times a month in season here in Florida, 10 times a year max.
While few and far between there are smallish straight inboard diesels to be found, this was my Shamrock 260 w/Yanmar 6lp dte. Shamrock now makes a few models with diesels and shafts. Fortier also makes a nice 26 w/diesel and shaft as does Albin. Not nearly as fast as the twin o/b versions of course but not as complex either.
As much as I am a diesel fan the fact that you will only use 10x a year might have me looking at outboards too. All that diesel fuel sitting in the tanks for so long sounds like it could be a problem waiting to happen.
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1967 BW Nauset w/ 88SPL Johnson
I think the reason everyone with outboards so strongly advocate twins, is because the damn things are always breaking. I think everyone with twin outboards has a story about limping home on one engine. As for the cost & reliability of diesels, just look at the money makers. Seatow, commercial fishing, workboats, there's a reason why diesels rule the pack. And usually single diesels. That said, I think diesel reliability is taking a big hit with the new common rail diesels. With the high pressure fuel systems & electronic controls, I think you'll see more "out of the blue" breakdowns. The old mechanical engines, while a little thirstier & a lot smokier, were nearly 100% reliable. As for choice of diesels, I would avoid the new lightweight, high revving, high HP models. Yanmar & Volvo would be at the top of my list of engines to avoid. My friend recently got rid of his twin diesel SF and we're currently building a 29ft single diesel trailerable boat. Engine choice is a low hr takeout, mechanical diesel. Less than 1,000 hrs on the clock, it's rated for ten thousand hours service. For redundancy, in the event of a problem with the engine, trans, shaft, wheel or rudder, we're looking at a couple of options. But we will have a backup plan. As stated, anything can happen.
For only 10 times a year, i am not sure the added cost of a diesel is justified.
Which reminds me, every time this debate comes up I need to go to Pt. Judith and tell the local offshore lobster fleet that they all need to swap out their single diesels for twin outboards, because according to THT they are doomed out there with that single diesel.
__________________ Move along, nothing to see here.
Wow. For ten days a year, do you even want to own a boat. Surely you have a friend or two that would take you fishing. And they would greatly appreciate some help with the care and feeding of their own boat.
Wow. For ten days a year, do you even want to own a boat. Surely you have a friend or two that would take you fishing. And they would greatly appreciate some help with the care and feeding of their own boat.
Also, someone might want to tell Captain Sig from the northwestern boat Fishing crab in Alaska, that he better swap is single diesel engine for twin outboards, same with the biggest Container ships in the world, they only have one engine.
Also, someone might want to tell Captain Sig from the northwestern boat Fishing crab in Alaska, that he better swap is single diesel engine for twin outboards, same with the biggest Container ships in the world, they only have one engine.
Little do they know, they should read THT.......
Captain Sig doesn't have a 25 foot boat (including eurotransom?-23 foot?-2' of freeboard?) that can be broadsided and flipped on a normal day a conservative SCA is posted.
Use your head.
You forgot to mention how many people die on that job each year.
You have to remember that Seatow, commercial fisherman, etc. are using those boats regularly (not only10-20 times a year for just few hours) which is a key to the reliability of every diesel. Also, they don't make 1300+ hp outboard engines to power those big boats right.
Do a google search for gas vs diesel and you will find a couple of articles by David Pascoe that should help you decide. Per his articles, if you are under 30 ft or so and don't use the boat regualrly... it usually makes sense to go with gas motors. David is an expert.
By the way... Capt. Sig had some trouble with that single diesel on a recent episode and was in a very bad position. They did fix it, but most pleasure captains nor crews know how to repair an engine like that.
__________________ 2001 Scout 280 Abaco
twin 200 HP Yamaha HPDI's
I am a former owner of a 24' twin outboard boat and I now have a single diesel true inboard 24' boat -
I have been towed in with both!! And ran in one engine many times with the twins. With my single diesel I have been towed in twice, once for bad fuel - I have twin tanks in the boat and ran out without refilling one tank knowing i was low on fuel, but also knew I had plenty of fuel in the second tank for the trip. I ran out on the 1st tank and went I went to switch to the full tank it had bad fuel - this tow could have been avoided if I would have filled the tank before leaving or started out with the other tank - I always leave the dock with full fuel know and I always swap tanks every trip. Second time I got towed in was a transmission failure (gear was 18 years old when failed) which would have been avoided if I would have also replaced the transmission when I repowered with a new engine.
There are some things I miss about the twin outboards - reliability is NOT one of them! I carry a full set of spares for my diesel (impellers, salt water pump, fuel pump, injectors, belts, etc) and I know how to work on it. I know it would take a major failure to cause me to be towed in and I know from experience twin outboards doesn't make you immune to being towed.
In rough seas the way the diesel boat handles is so much better than the twin outboard boat due to the low center of gravity of the inboard. I miss the manueverability of the twin outboards, but I think if I add a bow thruster it will be close. I have also gotten used to the inboard so I know how to dock it with out problem - I want the bowthruster to help hold the boat over a bottom spot and to help hold a course when trying to anchor in high current and wind.
My particular inboard diesel is LOUD, louder than my twin outboards at the helm. But I have rode on others that are MUCH quieter because of the addition of sound insulation, which my boat has none. I am going to add it this winter.
I have no desire to get rid of my diesel inboard boat. I love it and it is perfect for me and the type of fishing I do. My range of comfort is 75 miles offshore. It is amazing how economical it is to run, and I get an honest 3+ nmpg at cruise and I am hoping to optimize the prop to get closer to 4. Consider I got 1 in my twin outboard boat there is no comparison in economy...
Single Diesel vs Twin Outboards 
