*THE HULL TRUTH is the world's largest FREE network for the discussion of Boating & Fishing. Whether you're researching a new boat, or are a seasoned Captain, you'll find The Hull Truth Boating & Fishing Message Forum contains a wealth of information from Boaters and Sportfishermen around the world.
Welcome to the updated THT!
If you are having trouble signing in, please email feedback@thehulltruth.com with your username and we will help you. We thank you for your patience as we help you access the new site!
Random Quote: 4' to 6' is still better than 9 to 5
Bad Day at Hillsboro
One man’s expensive lesson in towing and salvage.
By Ben Ellison
Martin Manin is the first to admit that the boating accident he had last winter in South Florida was his fault, and he remains grateful that Sea Tow came to his aid in mere minutes. But he’s so bitter about how that tow was handled financially that he’s willing to share his nautical embarrassments with the world if it helps some of us to learn about the darker side of the boat towing business.
It was around noon last March 31 when Manin headed his 46-foot Sea Ray, Sony Boy III, out through Hillsboro Inlet. He and his family—young grandchildren included—were en route from Fort Lauderdale to Lake Worth, and it was such a lovely Sunday for boating that he decided to take a leg outside. The skies were clear, winds had been less than ten knots from the southeast for more than 36 hours, and predicted seas were one to two feet. What Manin did not anticipate was the nearly full-moon ebb tide current that could both square those small seas and set him slightly sideways toward the inlet’s notorious south reef.
Just outside the breakwaters, when Sony Boy III started slamming as current met waves, Manin got nervous, considered turning around, and throttled way back. In that moment of indecision, he let his boat drift out of the channel, then felt a crunch, indicating contact with bottom, and both engines shut down. Manin issued an anxious distress call on VHF channel 16. However, moments later, by his recollection, further wave action floated Sony Boy III into the calmer waters inshore of the reef, and he was able to restart both engines. Shortly thereafter, TowBoatU.S., Sea Tow, and a local sheriff’s deputy arrived on the scene.
When Manin told Sea Tow that he would try to take the boat in under her own power, Capt. John Estey, who was at the helm of the Sea Tow boat, advised him that running with damaged props and/or shafts could cause serious transmission damage or worse. Manin accepted this inarguably sound guidance and says he then tried to show Estey his Sea Tow membership card. According to Manin, the captain said, “I’ll get your card later,” passed him a line, and towed him approximately one and a half miles to a public dock.
Next, Sea Tow Fort Lauderdale owner Tim Morgan arrived and did an underwater inspection of Sony Boy III. Manin says Morgan told him that his boat had suffered an estimated $10,000 worth of rudder, prop, shaft, and hull damage (close to the actual $14,000 repair). When Manin again tried to offer his Sea Tow card, Morgan reportedly explained that this case was a salvage operation not covered by his membership. According to Manin, who admits to still being stressed about the incident, Morgan then said that his fee, paid by Manin’s hull insurer, would be a percentage of the repair cost and asked Manin to sign a standard salvage agreement, which he did.
Later, Manin was shocked, first when he learned that Morgan had filed an $82,500 salvage claim and second when his insurance company settled the matter with a $30,000 payment just a few days later. He believes that Sea Tow Fort Lauderdale misled him in several ways, and he’s concerned that the large fee may significantly affect his marine insurance premium and to a lesser degree the premiums of the whole yachting community. So he’s gone on the warpath, publicizing how he was “scammed by unscrupulous, unethical individuals who portray themselves as a company that renders a service to the boating community.”
Needless to say, Morgan has an entirely different view of the incident. Calling Manin’s charges “ridiculous,” he says that Estey actually towed Sony Boy III off the reef and thus saved the vessel from “imminent peril”—the legal term critical to what he claims is an “obvious” salvage case. As for the fee, Morgan says that he simply explained to Manin how salvage rewards are calculated on the value of the boat and the amount of danger it was in and says he “bristles” when boaters turn from gratitude for a rescue to resentment over the bill.
After extensive investigation, I could write a long essay on the complicated business of towing and salvage, but I still can’t nail down exactly what happened on that Sunday at Hillsboro. While I heard Manin’s adamant claim that he was floating free and out of danger, convincingly corroborated by the TowBoatU.S. captain on scene, the deputy sheriff’s report says, “the listed vessel was on the reef, going up and down with the wave action.” Manin’s and Estey’s versions of what was said before the tow have a similar “he said, she said” quality. Nonetheless, the incident illuminates some larger truths that every boater should be aware of.
Nearly every contractor or franchisee providing services for the big towing companies is also an independent salvor. That makes sense, as similar equipment and skills are required for both businesses, and the regular flow of service tows can nicely balance the unpredictable ups and downs of salvage. However, the duality can be confusing. There’s Manin, membership card in hand, fairly reasonably presuming that—having lucked through a close call—his bright yellow service provider with “Free Towing for Members” on the side is simply providing service. And then there are the Sea Tow captains, having heard the distress call and knowing the local dangers, fairly reasonably presuming that this was a potentially lucrative salvage situation instead of a “nonemergency” tow covered by their franchise obligation.
The towing industry is certainly aware of this confusion, and Sea Tow, TowBoatU.S., and Vessel Assist all have detailed information about the difference between service towing and salvage on their Web sites. The latter two organizations go a step further by requiring their contract captains to inform a member when the circumstances are perilous enough to warrant salvage. Morgan questions this policy, saying that this information is hard to impart and potentially counterproductive, especially in the noise and bustle of a boat just aground with waves and wakes threatening further damage. What if Manin—as he fervently wishes—had been informed of the salvage claim and had decided to go in on his own? Might he have incurred worse damage or perhaps had his insurance claim rejected for refusing help? Or did the salvage reward motivate Estey and Morgan to be deliberately vague?
And what about $30,000 for about an hour’s work? The insurance professionals I interviewed confirmed the gray aspects of salvage, saying that pay-outs to legally astute salvors can be pretty “generous,” but also note how many valuable hulls they’ve saved. They advise becoming informed about salvage contracts or calling before salvage commences, if possible.
Morgan took me for a spin in his robust twin-diesel jet towboat (specially built to work Hillsboro Inlet after he lost a prop boat in a desperate salvage attempt there), regaling me with the costs and hassles of operating a six-boat, 20-man towing and salvage operation. He also told me that some other operators, even ones in his own parent Sea Tow organization, are actually the “pirates” some boaters more skeptical than Manin presume them to be, an accusation I heard often during my research.
Looking back on that Sunday at Hillsboro, we shouldn’t forget that two towboats were on scene in minutes. That’s excellent service, regardless of their intentions. Now, to avoid the sort of painful surprises that Manin suffered, we should understand that these captains wear two hats and that sometimes those hats may not appear to be white.
Chris
'Englewood, Fl - a small drinking town with a fishing problem.'
That's quite a saga and brings to mind some questions I have after last weekend. We were about 25 miles offshore Port Aransas and noticed the USCG helicopter hovering over a boat a few miles off. Shortly thereafter a CG boat appeared. Heading back we saw the CG boat pull away, tuned em in on the radio and heard that they were calling commercial salvage and heading home.
Never ones to miss marking a new wreck, we changed course to take a look at the boat which was floating inverted with bows up...a cat.Immediately being consumed with "free boat lust" for what was obviously an abandoned floating prize, saucy looking twin outboards just under the clear green water, we considered salvage. Alas, ill equipped and with more seas than were prudent to attempt such an action, we abandoned that idea after a try.
My son mentioned, on the way in, "Yeah, Dad, but what would you say to the owner when you brought the boat in." Good question, I wonder what the laws are? It's probably a good thing to know, no matter which side of the coin you're on. I heard later that there were seven people lifted from that 20' boat....25 miles offshore...not calm, no telling how much ice and gear on board!
The big problem, from the things that I have read, is that these guys will pull off a salvage job without you knowing it, which is the case here.
If you are near the breakers or near a reef or other obstruction, they obviously put their boats in more danger by approaching your vessel.
Still, many times it a tow from the breakers that ignites a salvage claim against a hull, and if the insurance company or the owner doesn't settle the claim, a lien can be placed against the property.
I don't own a Sea-Tow membership and I find them very untrustworthy and slimy, especially since I used to read posts of one of these guys on other internet forums, and this guy loved the idea of raking people over the coals.
Here's an idea... If you rescued the giant the Sea-Ray and he was free floating and a Sea-tow member, why not cut the cat some slack?
And Sea-Ray captain, you were a dumbass too for crunching your drivetrain against the reef.
I've run up on sandbars... in the 15' War Eagle john boat with a 15hp engine. Engine just pops up when it hits something, so no damage. Managing to beach a boat with a 6" draft though... its interesting lol.
SeaTow has gotten the reputation of trying to find a reason to call any situation a "salvage". TowBoat /US not. I am a member of SeaTow this year,,,but thats all. ANOTHER STORY _ TRUE - last summer, there was a boat broke down near an inlet and in fairly shallow water with very small breakers. SeaTow came to assist and told the guy it was a salvage,, too dangerous for them to to as he was in imminent peril.. I was getting ready to go thru the inlet, and the guy waved me down while SeaTow was there... standing by. He tossed me a rope and I pulled him in,, no problem. Yes, it did take a little twisting around on our part to get him into deeper water, but the breakers were very small. I also have a towing endorsement, but charged nothing, as I would appreciate the same. Not an ad that SeaTow would like to put on thier site. This was definitely not a salvage!
No, I've never creamed my boat into a reef and done 14,000 USD damage to it.
In this captain's moment of indecision, he damaged his vessel to the extent that it cost as much as my whole boat and motor. Seriously.
Now, if you think I was coming off in favor of slimy salvage pirates, you're wrong.
Nonetheless, when you are piloting an almost fifty foot boat, you've gotta know where you are in the world, and not having proper nautical gear on board, you know, a chart plotter GPS and depthsounder seems unlikely.
We know the weather was fine. It's not like this guy was in a little bitty boat.
Finding 1: This captain served himself up like a volleyball.
Finding 2: Seatow captain saw big Sea-ray near rocks and saw big pay day.
We also see in the article that the Sea-ray cat's insurance company doesn't seem too upset by the charge...
A few years back a tree branch damage the roof of my home. Called insurance company, adjuster came down; 5 minutes on the roof, 3 minutes chit-chat and gone. Because I had cut the branch down the adjuster told the insurance company the damage was a lack of maintenance and was paid, $17,600 some odd dollars; for 8 minutes time. It cost me 2,700 bucks to replace the roof.
The point being: what's the world coming to? It was Martin's honesty and trust in others that allowed this to happen. Is that his fault? And the worst part about it is, you and I will have to pay for it!
Once a mistake, twice a fool.
Once bitten, twice shy
1. You don't have to be smart or even careful to operate a boat - you simply have to have sufficient disposable income to afford purchase and use.
2. Humans tend to take advantage of situations; whether in business, or rustling a meal in the bush. It's our nature to do so, and is only tempered by ethics. You cannot judge the ethics of a stranger without history of his / her behaviour, so you must assume the worst in order to "cover your a$$".
3. In situations where there are transactions occurring, documentation is everything. Take notes, take pics, shoot video, call someone on a cell phone and ask them to record the call, or whatever. There are just too many conflicts and contests in our lives to just assume someone is going to take the same actions that you or I would, and you have to document things.
Bottom line is that the world is not as warm and cozy a place as when we were children.
As I understand it - there can be no salvage if the boats not abandoned bye it's skipper.
You can't salvage a boat with it's skipper at the helm whether it's on a sandbar reef or boat trailer in the launch ramp = they guys still in control of his vessel.
You can salvage an abandoned vessel - where the skipper gets off the boat onto a rescue boat to save his sorry butt....then the boats abandoned.
Same with acceptinfg a tow - yu throw a line to the rescue vessel - then you've got yaself a tow - you accept a line from the rescuing vessel - you got yaself into a problem 'grey' areawhere anyone who threw that rope can charge whatever they like for the tow. Albeit it's still not a salvage operation.
Another word of warning, about towing a stricken vessel.
Commercial fisherman on our south coast (Southern Ocean) gets a call in the middle of the night from local police. Theres a barge off a drilling rig, heading across the Great Australian Bight (rough water, thousands of miles of cliffs and no beach.)
It's broken down - unable to effect repairs, and in danger of being wrecked on the treatcherous cliffs with losss oflife to crew yada yada yada, can he do anything to help.
Sure thing - takes his 60 ft vessel a LOT of mile to the stricken barge and offers to rescue the crew.
Oil drilling boss is on the blower to the crew - "do not abandon the barge - he will get a tug some thousand miles away on the west Coast at fremantle in the indian ocean to come round to effect a 'rescue' of the barge.
In the interim, this oil co CEO offers the pro fisher ANYTHING he wants to just take the barge in tow - and try and hold it off the cliffs in a stationary position until the tug arrives.
The guy does this, and holds this barge for almost 24 hours in large seas...tow line breaks a couple times during the night - and he risks hs vessel a couple times to get another line secured and keep this barge in place etc etc...
At the end of it - the tug did eventually come and save the barge but only because this guy worked a miracle to keep it off the rocks....not to mention the ecological disaster he averted from the fuel oil spillage that would have occurred if she'd gone aground.
So he gets back home 24 hours or more later exhausted - and moors and goes home for a days sleep.
Then he rings the oil company CEO to try & find out where to send his bill for fuel, crew time etc etc.
The company people won't put him thru to the head sharang & he gets the run around - and this goes on for weeks then months.
In the interim -he;s got problems with his boat - theres tyransom damage and it doesn't pass it's annual survey, because the barge has basically yanked the transom outta this boat.
The company underlings he did get to speak to eventually told him not to even bother trying to take em to court to recover costs - said he was 'obligated legally to rebder aid to a stricken vessel & they would spend whatever it took in court and on lawyers to see that he never got a dime.
Guy lost his boat, business and family home when the banks moved in.
Moral of the story - when its the oil industry - let the bastard sink! Take the passengers if your feeling benevolent but don't stress about it, let their own company rescue them (Hire a helicopter or whatever.
Even the local police who sent him out on the job weren't able to help out - they just said - oil co's are too big to fight
Local politician said the same.
You get into trouble in your boat - don't expect me to come save your butt - I'll be too busy, or not willing to endanger myself crew & vessel.
Unwritten rule of the game - lookout for numero uno!
wow, made me re-read my sea tow contract more carefully. i do NOT like their definition of salvage, one bit --
"Salvage Operations: Any act or activity undertaken to assist a vessel or any other property in danger in navigable waters or in any other waters whatsoever. (Definition from the IMO International Salvage Conference 1989)."
nothing about "imminent" or even "peril" or sinking or anything -- just the overly broad "danger." geez, that could mean almost anything.
i'm really thinking of going with boat us, which has an EXCELLENT discussion on the topic. they also seem -- repeat, seem -- to have stricter standards to safeguard boat owners from salvage scams.
Taking a risk to help someone in distress is a personal decision. I have been on both sides of the equation and I try to operate on the premise that since one never knows what the future holds, helping people and being helped should still be on the table as possible courses of actions...despite what your lawyer might tell you.
Actually, any time the boat is considered in immediate peril it can be grounds for a salvage. The presence of the captain on board in no way prevents it from being a salvage.
It's quite simple. If a boat sinks or runs aground on a reef it will most likely be a total loss. The salvor comes in and prevents the total loss, and can be entitled for somethign like 20% of the value of the boat. It's always been like this - maritime law is nothing like getting in a car accident.
Now every single boater will tell you that his boat really isn't in immediate peril, right up until the time that it sinks and causes even more of a problem, adding an environmental issue on top of everything.
If the salvor is unsuccessful, he risks his life and gets nothing. If he is successful, then he gets a lot of money for a short amount of time. While that may translate into a large $$ amount for an hour, it's not like he does 8 salvages a day. For the one day he does a salvage, there are 100 other days when he's ready & waiting. That's what you are paying for.
Everyone remarks they are surprised at how calmly the insurance company handles the salvage claim. that's because the insurance company understands towing & salvage.
I fully understand about people trying to get something for nothing. while stopped in traffic I was hit by a bike messenger. Now she's trying to get $$ from my insurance company saying that she can't work, she was too hurt afterward and left her bike out & parts were stolen, hand & wrist problems, etc. She was fine until she talked to other people who viewed the accident as a chance to make money. That makes me sick.
If there's one towing company that consistently gets accused of scamming boaters and royally ripping them off its ST. In the above article it says the owner of ST Ft Lauderdale came out to the boat owners dock AFTER the tow and did an underwater inspection. What the hell business is it of his to inspect the guy's boat when the tow is over. He only did it so he could claim salvage and rip him off instead of calling it a free tow under the guy's membership.
The articles in Power and Motoryacht magazine mentioned how many boaters are getting ripped off by ST around the Hillsboro Inlet. In many instances ST is charging $ 14,000 to $ 30,000 for tows less than a mile or two long, and that ST is being sued by several boaters.
Like one boater who wrote in said,"ST has a bad reputation in South Florida, I personally would not call them for any help." I agree completely and will convey what the FMP told me - they consider ST to be a bunch of thieves.
Its funny to hear ST members say "I broke down and ST came right out and towed me in no charge". They don't know this company is full of crooked captains just waiting for the slightest opportunity to claim salvage and totally rip you off. Like the last sentence in the above article said, "these captains wear two hats and sometimes those hats may not appear to be white."
bottomline is that this was a sleazy operation
...period...while the exact meaning of "danger"
is perhaps minimally debatable, the case law and
experts all agree that the higher award of a
"salvage" as a percentage of the value of the
boat (or repair) is based on RISK...the salvor
risked HIS boat for yours...thus, if a salvor
does thirty jobs, but loses his boat to one,
how does that get amortized over the other
twenty nine...if it isnt, then you wont have
a salvage industry....also, salvage is on a
no-cure-no-pay basis, so that if time and re-
sources (think of a beached supertanker!) to
refloat fail, the salvor gets NADA!...
ALL OF THIS IS BIG SHIP ORIENTED...so that
for a seatug to go into shallow, rock strewn
coast in a gale to pull and container ship from
imminent doom, and fails...or succeeds...in this
setting, the odds are hardly favoring the salvor
....when crossed over to recreational vessels,
these provisions no longer make sense, although
the rules are identical nonetheless....
unfortunately, the salvors (again, picture
a ship in surf during a gale) can proceed res
ipsa loquatur (no permission required)....you
can only stop a salvage by
got cut off...by EXPRESSLY REFUSING the salvor...for us, this means get on the radio
and tell seatow that "no salvage" is the basis
of work here...if you accept his line without
expressing your terms, you are on his...just
state the two magic words to whoever.
several things are wrong here...first, there
was not danger, so the "salvage" wasnt...it was
a tow...second, the fact that your insurance co
PAID is outrageous...the guy was never going to
get $30,000 from you!!...the only way this guy
can operate this way is because insurance cos.
take the road of least resistance and cut a
check....believe me, this guy did not want to
go to court and have scrutiny of his actions...
but as it was, how many of these scams does he
need per month to get by?...we all run aground,
and we all can break down, so getting towed is
not a demerit on somebody`s seamanship...tell
`em "no salvage" and failing that, tell your ins
co NOT to pay....dan
Good thing this board isn't ********. It would have been expunged at message 2 or 3.
What amazes me is that over the long haul (a couple of years, and many message boards), ST seems to always stand out as a bit unscrupulous. Not sure if it is ST directly, or they just don't monitor and cull their bad apples enough. One rarely hears a derrogatory remark about the other two major tow companies.
Saw 2 Boat US this pm trying to pull an IO searay apprx 25' off the beach on the Jersey side of the Delaware Bay off cape May point NJ with the big seatow arriving on the scene. It was midtide on way in. Thought about the "salvage " issue and wondered how he was going to make out.
Sea Tow salvage story...must read! 
